Hi

My 6 1/2 year old male Dobe - had a problem with cars - at the moment he jumps about trying to bark at them, then he will grab his lead and start shaking his head - I have noticed he does this with cats too.

Why does he do this and how can I stop him? Walks are no fun anymore for either me or him.

Any advice would be grately appreciated.

Firstly, yay you for asking WHY first, before asking 'how do i stop it'.

The key to solving most problems starts with finding out WHY its happening.

At first i thought your dog is either, scared of cars and is trying to 'chase' them away with his behaviour (a behaviour which would be very self rewarding as the dog wouldnt realise that the cars are going to go away anyway).

Then when i read the part about cats, that makes me think this is less likely to be a defensive, fear type behaviour, and more a chase instinct behaviour.

Some dogs have a very strong drive to chase things and they can be 'turned on' by cars quite easily, as well as the more usual things, ie joggers, bikes, sheep etc.

Its still possible he is defensive and worried rather than excited and wants to chase, but its much less likely so ill work on the idea that he wants to chase.

The grabbign the lead and shaking it is a redirection of his frustration. He CANT chase because he is on the lead, so he needs an outlet for that frustration, and his outlet would be grabbign the lead and ragging it? Is that whats happening?

Firstly, you need to make 100% sure he can never get away from you. He could get run over or he could grab someones cat and kill it - he may not, but its not worth finding otu really.

I would introduce him to a head collar, there are various versions and i suspect one where the lead ends up at the back of his head would be better than one where its under his chin - you'll have to try a few types before you find one that suits. I know there IS one where the action f the lead is at the back of the head though, and that may be the best (cant remember its name).

Use that with a double ended lead and a secure flat buckle collar or a secure harness (pref not a harness that has any 'stop pulling' type action, just a normal one).

I would never recommend using a headcollar without the lead being attached to something else secure on the dog as well - some can be removed by a deft dog, and most will cause a lot of damage if the dog is allowed to lunge to the end of the lead as the dogs head can be snapped back with a lot of force.

Now you have a secure dog (make sure with treats and gentle exposure to the headcollar that he is happy wearing it)...

You now have control of his head, he should be less able to reach the lead and he is much less liekly to be able to get away from you.

Now you need to redirect his behaviour from wanting to chase, to 'something else'.

You will really struggle if you simply attempt to STOP the behaviour, dogs respond much better if you give them an alternative and in your case your dog is already suggesting one.

Get a decent ragger toy, preferably one wtih a loop you can hang on to, taht is quite distinctive and NOT a lead. (one with a ball on the end perhaps?).

Get him used to playing wtih this if he isnt already, and make sure he is happy to leave it when you ask (the best way to do this is to sasy 'leave' and then cease to play - keep hold of the toy but ignore the dog, dont respond, dont pull back just go 'dead' - when he lets go, reward him well with more fun wtih the toy).

Now when you walk him, staying at a distance where he knows there are cars or cats about, but not close enough to really drive him loopy, whenver he shows interest in them, offer him the toy to play with.

Gradually build up that distance so you get closer and closer - if its too much and he cant concentrate on you, never mind, dont yell or shout or panic, just start again a bit further aaway.

Eventually you should have him looking to YOU to bring out the ragger toy, and after that, you can start to ask him to keep his attention on you for slightly longer periods before he gets the toy.

Em

Hi Em

Thanks for that. Yes he does have a  high chase instinct - he tries to chase joggers, bikes, scooters bees flys etc. But his problem with cars - this is what I am not sure about - some days he just ignores them - then some other days he is a nightmare, it normally takes one car to set him off - usually a 4x4 or a diesel (this has only started happening since we left him at new year)  I walk him the same route to the field and back every day. I have tried distracting him with treats - he generally stops barking, sniffs the treat then starts barking again.
I live on one of the main roads through the village and Max can stand with me at the front door and he does not even look at the cars passing - but as soon as he is off the front step it starts again. Its not a busy roadd but does have a fair volume of cars on it. If Max is in the car he barks if a car comes too close to the boot. I have tried to expose him to more cars by sitting in the boot with him in the local Tesco's car park with the boot lid open - he is fine there - its just when we are out walking.

I have got Max one of the Halti harnesses + leads recently, I only use the back loop to attach the lead too - I find it easier to keep him under control when he starts his antics. He should be ok wearing a head collar as he occasionally wears a muzzle.

Yes he grabs the lead, normally just beside my fingers - then starts shaking his head, once the car is passed, he continues shaking his head (this makes walking very difficult - Max is trained to walk on the left and I have just had surgery on my left hand - which I normally use as an extra grip on the lead at car time)

I will try the ball on a rope toy as we already play with one - thing is tho he knows what pocket the ball is kept in and as soon as we get to the field (about 500 yards away) he starts barking and nuzzling my pocket for the ball. Will carry in my hand to the field from now on.

Thank you so much for your reply - it must have taken you ages really appreciate it.

Hi - this is a socialisation issue.  It means you did not socialise your dog to cars from a very young age, and to all types of car and vehicle.  I know that's not much help now, but just wanted to point it out for any future dogs you might have!

The behaviour you describe (biting the lead, shaking the head) shows that he regards cars as prey objects - he wants to pursue them.  The biting the lead and shaking the head to kill the prey also suggests he views the cars as prey or chase objects.

Barking at them from the boot of the car could be a different behaviour - that could be a guarding behaviour, guarding your car from the other cars!

I agree that using a toy is a good idea, because every dog should have an outlet for the prey drive, directed against what you want it to be directed against (ie not against cars!).  However, I wouldn't produce the toy when he starts to do this, because that is only reinforcing the connection between "car=prey" in his mind - since you would then, every time he sees a car and goes into prey drive, be facilitating and encouraging this by producing a toy.  I mean - there is a chance he could view the toy as a reward for the car - ah - there's a car - bark bark, get worked up - then you produce the toy, which could be seen as a reward for that behaviour, by him.

Instead I would make sure he gets "fixes" of playing tuggy at other times of the day, at home, so that he has an outlet for his prey drive.  Then you should work on his "Watch me" cue - at first a long distance away from cars (if you can find a road and then stand in a field next to it, quite a way away that would be ideal).  Then gradually get closer to the road, always practising the "Watch me" cue.  The secret is to do it very gradually, making sure that it is always a success by not pushing him too far, too fast - ie - not getting too close to the cars, too soon.  Also you might want to try tastier treats (like very smelly fish or other equally smelly treats).  If he ever gets into biting the lead and shaking it, I would walk away from the car quickly, then try putting the lead under your foot (standing on it), still holding the end of it, fold your arms and look away from him - turn your back if you can - show him that you are not playing with him or supporting this behaviour with your body language.  Hopefully he will get bored if you ignore him like this.  Then you can praise him when he stops (wait for at least 5 seconds of silence) and keep walking.

Hi

I am not sure about the socialisation thing - I got Max as a rescue dog, he was nearly 2. this thing with the cars has only started since we were away at New Year so its a new thing - he has not done it since I got him 5 years ago.

Hi Pooh - I'd assumed he'd always done it, since you didn't mention otherwise.  Hmmm, in that case it's v interesting.  Can you remember the first time he did it and what happened immediately before?  How did you react the first time when it happened?  You said it only started after you were away - does that mean he was in kennels or someone else was looking after him?  Is it possible he experienced something which somehow caused this to start?

Hi

It started after we came back from Haggisland at New Year, Max was left with a relative, after only moving down here in the Oct I thought it would be best for him to stay in his own house rather than kennels.

If I remember correctly the car was coming towards us - Max was on the left then me then the road - he lunged across me and started barking - then grabbed the lead - I think I just pulled on the lead to make him walk - not sure tho.

Something has happened to him while you were away, but unfortunatly he can't tell you what. Is there a chance that the people who looked after him over New Year, walked him the same route as you and maybe they got splashed or something similar? With your move then your leaving him and his being a rescue anyway, he would of been very confused and possibly frightened to think that he had ben re-homed again, so in turn becoming overly sensitive. You could try a different route or even popping him in the car and taking him away from the area and giving him some easy off lead walking and some preydrive releasing running in the woods etc and not allow his behavour to accelerate at home. As it is he quite possibly could be making mountains out of molehills which is typically Dobe anyway. Try to be proacive and not reactive. My Dobe girl is 100% happier on just a body halter which leaves her free to swing her head and I guess not feel so vonerable. By the way, he won't like biting a metal lead if that helps.

Hi

Yeah that is what I thought too. I left him with the sister in law at New Year but I made sure that she came round every day for 3 weeks before it, made a fuss of him, gave him treats, played ball, fed him and came for a walk with us. Even now when he sees her he goes hyper - sometimes I think he is going to wagg his bum off
When we went away I made sure that I left stuff smelling of me lying about the house - just in case. He was fine with Laura - except the thing with the cars - in the end they ended up putting him in the car to take him to the field.

The thing that is confussing me - Max can stand at the front door with me and watch cars pass without reacting to them - but one step forward and he goes nuts.

I did try the ragger toy that Em suggessted and that worked for about 4 cars, then he just spat it out. Some days he does not bother with cars at all.

I think I am going to have to go back to basics with him. I have him on a halti harness at the moment - just on the back ring - not for pulling. Tried the metal lead but he just went for the handle! Will try it again tho.

Thanks

Hi All

Well I have done all the basic training with him again, it has made no difference to his reaction to cars.  I kept a diary for a month of what cars he was barking at (as some he does not react to) there is no pattern now - it used to be 4x4's or diesels, now its anything.

What I have noticed is that I can put him in the car - take him out of the village and he will walk perfectly with cars, bikes,cycles etc and not a sound out of him. We took him to Southend Airshow on Sunday - parked out of town and walked about a mile down the main route - nothing - not a reaction to anything, he was the most well behaved dog anyone could want.

Could this be a territoral / protection issue?

I am stuck what to try next with him - any suggestions anyone????

You have my sincere sympathy Pooh.

I have no good advice to offer as I have struggled for over two years with a similar problem with my own rescue GSD - although his problem was evident from the start.  I have always described him as 'traffic-phobic' but of course he isn't; he's traffic-tropic.  He gets an immense adrenalin rush from 'seeing off the enemy' and, as he is neither toy nor food orientated, there is little I have been able do to replace this 'pleasure loop'.  I manage him by the use of a Dogmatic headcollar and the withdrawal of my attention during and immediately after the behaviour (plus the 'teeth kissing' noise that signals my displeasure).  He's better than he was but boy, it's a long haul. He also has to be crated and covered when travelling in a car.

BTW all his other chasing behaviours (joggers, bikes, kids etc.) were cured within a month of coming to us and in all other circumstances he is a model of good behaviour and a wonderful companion for the family and our other dog.

Hope you have better luck than me and you probably will as this is a recent phenomenon with your lad.  But loads of luck and best wishes,

Linda

Hi Linda

Thanks for that, nice to know I am not alone in this! He barks in the car, but I think its more excitement than anything else, he is quiet if we are going out the village.
This thing with cars only happens in our village. He has stopped the jogger, bike chasing now. Its just the cars that are a problem....... aside from that he is a perfect dog in all ways, so good that I have managed to persuade the OH to get another one once we move house!!

I use a canny head collar on him now - but its for safety more than anything! they are absolutely fantastic things.

Thanks for your response.

Best wishes
Carol-Anne