speaking to a lady on the fields today who ownes a lovely KC reg golden retreiver bitch. bitch is 3 years old .
apparently owner wanted to breed the bitch at some point.
she had the health tests done last year, woitch all came back fine and they were planning on finding a stud this year.
however when she took the bitch for a booster in jan the vet picked up what he said was a leaking heart valve and said that he had never seen the condition so bad before in such a young , healkthy bitch. he also said that she could not have pups now, as the strain on the heart would kill her.
owner was sent on her way, no more tests offered or medication.

obviosuly she was distraght. however it dosnt seem right. surely a vet cant just diagnose a condition simply by a quick listenign to the chest, and if it was that bad, would he not refer the dog for a scan and look to see what meds it may need? and if the condtion is likely to get worse.
owner has been advised by friends to get a second opinion.

what do you think?

obviosuly she was distraght. however it dosnt seem right. surely a vet cant just diagnose a condition simply by a quick listenign to the chest, and if it was that bad, would he not refer the dog for a scan and look to see what meds it may need? and if the condtion is likely to get worse.owner has been advised by friends to get a second opinion.

A quick listen Are you sure it was only a quick one ? It may have seemed quick to the owner, but in essence been sufficient for the vet to heart the valve malfunctioning

Yes faulty heart valves can be diagnosed by listening to the heart through a stethoscope.

Did the bitch have her heart checked by a cardiologist last year if she didn't then she didn't have all the tests done

From The GR Club of America site
HEART DISEASE

Hereditary heart disease, most commonly Subvalvular Aortic Stenosis (SAS), is known to occur in the Golden Retriever breed. All prospective breeding animals should be examined by a board certified veterinary cardiologist. If a murmur is detected through auscultation (listening with a stethoscope), additional diagnostic tests are available and may be recommended. However, even if the results are negative, this does not rule out heart disease, as some mild but hereditary forms may be undetectable except on necropsy. Animals with hereditary heart disease should not be used for breeding.

From the Morris Animal Foundation
Description:
Mitral regurgitation is the most common cardiovascular disease in dogs, accounting for up to 75 percent of all canine heart failure. The disease is caused by a change in the valve between two of the heart chambers. It is similar to degenerative mitral valve disease in humans, but treatment is different. Humans undergo surgical repair of the valve; however, this is cost prohibitive and complicated in dogs. The only viable option to reduce the signs of heart failure is administering regular doses of oral medicine. The investigators are studying the use of digoxin, a drug used in advanced congestive heart failure in dogs, to determine if it is an effective treatment for dogs with mild heart failure.

I have a Cavalier with grade 3 MVD & he went onto medication last year. He's 10 this year & has the medication to help reduce the amount of fluid in his body to aid his heart. He hasn't been scanned & currently has 4 monthly check ups & touch wood his condition hasn't worsened & remains exactly the same. He hasn't been referred to a cardiologist & he is monitored by auscultation

MM the GRC in the UK doesn't insist on anything but hips, eyes and elbows yet- seems the US is ahead there, but of course many responsible breeders will heart test as well -like my dog's breeder.

I know I was shocked to find they didn't insist on heart testing as my friend who breeds GR always has her dogs checked yearly & the oldies more often & has done for many many years. That's why I had to go to the US site :rolleyes: My friend has never had any problems with her dogs hearts but perfers to save rather than sorry (She was one of the first to have all her dogs hip scored(even the oldies)& such are her dogs temperaments they were done without GA or sedation & they were all under the score of 4 (including a 9 1/2 year old whose score was 0:1))

I fear for the breed as in the next village there is a woman who bred 6 litters from a bitch who used to collapse with her heart & she now breeds from her offspring & sadly she is typical of a lot of breeders-she tried to use one of my friends dogs & was refused because she didn't have a heart test(obvious why she didn't !)

Heart problems do exist in Goldens and in fact when I bought my last pup 2 years ago I was given copies of his parents health test certificates which included heart testing. Also I have had a Golden with a bad heart -that dog had Dilated Cardiomyopathy although most commonly seen in Golden is Subvalvular Aortic Stenosis which is believed to be genetic.

It isn't impossible to diagnose a heart problem just by listening to the heart (indeed with my cavalier I diagnosed him myself with a stethoscope I'd bougth on Ebay! The vet then just confirmed it when I brought him in), but in the case of some conditions  a scan might be adviceable to find out exactly WHAT condition it is. However that can be costly -I had it done on a cat once and it cost me £400, AND in the case of my cat (who was seen by a cardiologist after referral by my vet) he was put under anaesthetic which of course is risky with a bad heart but he was a stud so I HAD to know, and in the end the treatmet would have been no different at all -the difference just being if you are a breeder and has the line and need to know WHAT is in it, then a scan would be essential.

Whether the dog is medicated or not is usually decided on after how the dog is in itself -if there are no actual symptoms yet there may be no need to start medication. Some Goldens with SAS can have a normal life without any medication at all, or shortened life span. My Golden with DCM did need medicaction, lots of it (he had severe symptoms and would even faint), and my Cavalier with MVD did eventually need it. I don't think a second opinion is necessarily needed, but the owner should query the vet as to if medication is needed yet or not. And obviously she should not be bred from.

what the owner cant understand is if this is as a result of a genetic condition. (dog was from a litter of 9 all others are fine) why did it not show up sooner?

Possibly because the other puppies haven't been checked & the deterioration can be very quick

Hi, if you go to http://www.thenewfoundlandclub.co.uk/understanding_heart_testing.htm it explains how long SOME heart conditions take to become apparent! All the best, Dawn

Hi Dawn

This might be of interest to you concerning heart problems.

A pioneering vet from High Wycombe has developed a simple and cost effective way to diagnose heart disease in dogs.
Dr David Spratt of Crossroads Veterinary Centre has adopted a common blood test used for human heart attack patients and applied the principle to dogs.
Dr Spratt presented his paper to the European College of Vetinary Medicine at their annual conference in Barcelona last week and picked up 2 prestigious awards and an all expenses paid holiday to the USA for his trouble.
The test works by allowing vets to look for a protein in the blood called Troponin, which is normally stored inside the heart muscle.
If the heart is damaged, Troponin leaks out and the higher levels of Troponin, the more severe the heart disease is.
Until now vets had no accurate method for diagnosing hear disease and relied instead on a combination of guesswork and expensive X-rays and ultra sound tests.
Dr Spratt told Midweek "The beauty of this test is that any vet can take a blood sample and send it off for analysis and it is available now for clients across the UK. All they have to do is send their samples to Ross Dale and Partners in Newmarket for analysis.
The test is especially useful for Dobermans and Newfoundland dogs that are naturally predisposed to heart disease and it may even be usable on cats.

I am very lucky to be under these vets who are fantastic. Any type of test that can improve our loved ones lives is a plus.

Regards
Stu

Thanks for that Stu, some very interesting results and research! Can I send on the info to the Health and Longevity Committee of the Northern and National Newfie Clubs please? Ta, Dawn

Hi Dawn

Sorry for the delay in replying . Please feel free to pass on the info. I sent Del the info a while back as I felt it might be of interest.
The venterinary centre has a web site and can be contacted through it if you require any further info. http://www.vetswycombe.co.uk
Regards
Stu