why is it that in horses the off spring of crossbreeds are known as sport horses in some cases, and are offerd registration on the part bred register. many crossbreeds being very valuble and bred spacificaly by top studs.some horses being dual or triple registerd and the heritage in the blood line being recognised even if the heritage contains multiply breeds. for example and this is a rougth example here. a pure bred newforest pony may only make about 50 quid tops at a sale. however a newforest cross thoroughbred would make a lot more, sometimes into the 1000's!then you add a third breed and again it is still desirable. and the horse coudl also be registerd with all 3 breed societys on the part bred register.


however in dogs it is not desired at all and the off spring can not be registerd anywhere even if the prents were both KC reg  but just diffrent breeds.

just wondering why a dog with 2 diffrent breeds as parents , even if the partents are pure bred and registerd. is classed the same as a dog who may have several diffrent breeds in it of unknown parentage.

dogs are not horses and thats how it is

I'm told there's a different system with cat registries as well. Different species, different system. :)

Horses don't have the potential to have more than 20 off spring in a year !!!!  You really answer your own question by giving the reason why such horses would be registered but why register crossbreeds ? It the old pun "horses for courses" lol..

thats like comparing dogs to human babies.

humans can reproduce with another rate but have to register their babies its two totally different things dogs, and also cats should only be registered if purbred if you start registering every mutt on the planet god knows what will start to be produced and what will start to be put in shows.

When you enter a dog into a dog show it isnt the cuteness of the dog that matters it is everything about the dog the stance, the attitude, The head and body shape and coat. The way they walk i could go on & on forever

If you mix two breeds you arnt making a better dog those two dogs would have two seperate health risks in their breed making it more likely to have a sickly dog. That is just one of the many reasons that all these poodle mixes or the laughable DESIGNER breeds get to me so much.

Your question gives an answer in part - you mention "Registering" the cross bred horses as Sport Horse, or on part-bred registers - the Sport Horse register is specifically fro performance horses, so could, in part be equated to the Agility/Obedience register, on which Cross breds can be registered.  Part bred registrations are different.  Taking the native breeds, such as New Forests, for instance, the pure bred register, and showing in M & M classes, equates pretty much to the KC pedigree register and the dog showing scene.  However, part-breeding with native ponies is how the Show Pony, Working Hunter Pony, etc, is acheived.  This is a "Type" not a breed.  And there you have the big difference - we do not have a "type" showing classification id dogs, becasue they vary so much in size, shape, coat, etc, etc.  However ths "ideal" show horse, outside of the pure breds, are all a pretty similar template, wether it be for a lead rain pony or a show hunter!  But in show classes, outsdie of the native and pure breds (mostly in hand, at that) it is the norm to show only geldings and mares - you cannot show a stallion in Ridden show pony, hack or hunter classes.  So you need to go to a stallion which will produce to yoru mare.  And a mare can produce offspring which will fit several different classes, depending on the stud used - say, you have a 13.2 part-bred arab mare - the other half could be a bit native pony, a bit thoroughbred, a bit unkown.  use a 12.2hh Welsh Section B and you could get a lovely SHP type, use a 15 small TB and you can get a 14.2 Show Pony.  In dogs there is not direct equal, becasue there is no "ideal" dog shape, just each individual breed standard.  And then there is breeding for the various sporting disciplines, show-jumping, dressage, eventing  etc. It bear remembering that wiht horses, you have a much more traceable parentage going back to breed beginings, for instance, all TBs go back to 3 Arabians.  And another thought, on most of the registries, if you want to go on part-bred or grading register, the horse has to be evaluated (liek the Irish Draqught gradings)

Sorry if this is very fragmented, just wanted to illustrate how very different the horse breeding thing is.  Howeve,r one thing remains the same, the novice or uncaring breeder who uses any old stallion on a substandard mare is unlikely to produce anything which will be registered anywhere, although the strangest combinations have managed to produce grade A showjumpers ;)
bye
Gwen

and also cats should only be registered if purbred

Actually, no. You can (although not many do) register a cross between two totally different breeds with the GCCF, but the kittens will not go on the full register, will not have an actual breed name, the registration will be over stamped This cat cannot be shown, etc etc. Los of rules, lots of different registers -esentially in some breeds you also can outcross to other breeds even moggies if you are in dire need of new blood, and it will then take a certain amount of generations (and several years) before they can go on the full register again and be accepted as the breed.

This can also happen with dogs, but the Kennel club will ahve to accept that there is god reason for doing it.

Bruce Cattanagh with his bobtail boxers was able to have them on the breed register after I think 4 generations.

Bruce also told the KC BEFORE he started breeding of his intentions and kept them fully informed from the word go.
Becky

And kept all the doggy community fascinatingly informed too :D

i think this ,because ive been in horses for so long,& before i ever got intersted in dogs,is the reason why im pro purpose/responsibly bred Xs.
that something new & improved may be produced.

look at the success of the anglo arab for instance?

interestingly,the lady near me that breeds the labradoodles is also very horsey.

its all very confusing
my horse was a 1/4 horse x tb. & what a cracking cross that was.

when i worked at the stables,our best horses were welsh sec D x TB. we found that type  perfect for our riding school,

I totally understand where your coming from but remember most dogs live in homes as family members so not much room for experiments.

yes but horses are pets too.in some cases that childern are put on!

As a rule they don't share the living-room carpet with those children, though, or sleep on their beds at night! ;)

Mine would if I let them :D

so, dont childern & adults spend 99%  of their time at stables,grooming mucking out,riding, just messing around.i know i did! dont think good temperment in horses is unimportant

I think it's a bit different when each experiment produces 8+ lives which are destined to live in people's homes. If only one pup was born each time and was kept for a year by the breeder to see how it turned out then you could draw a similarity. There are some very dodgy-tempered horses and ponies about; if dog breeders produced them there would be an outcry, but because they live isolated from most people it seems to not matter.

horses are only dodgy when they have been mistreated/misread.

clearly i totally understand what people are saying about litter numbers & age of pups going,BUT can anyone see the other side aswell?
as much as if someone IS into producing high quality horses by understanding good breeding & how lines "nick" together in the hoorse world,then they might think it is equally acceptable in the dog world?
esp if theyve been brought up with the usual "horsey" type dogs,eg xbreed terrier types,lurchers & collie xs

im not trying to change anyones mind or anything,just putting a "different" slant on "why" people may see things the way they do?

I agree with you there. I think that horses put up with far more ill treatment that any other species - most of it unintentional but still bad.

defintally

when i got hallie,she was 4 & no-body could touch her. she was a rescue case,full of worms & lice,mane & tail totally knotted up & long & incredibly thin. she would not let anyone touch her.

spose most people would think she had a screw loose & was dodgy,but i gave her a chance & she was very very loving.
my best ever moment with her (& it only happened once) i was sitting in her stable & she lay down & put her head onto my lap,we stayed there for ages stroking her head & ears.
not bad for a reallt dodgy horse that no-one could get near for 4 years

I dont know much about horses myself but by the sounds of it michelled you have worked fantastically hard with your rescue horse, well done you - all the hard work pays off in the end doesnt it.

Horses and dogs alike (in fact prob most animals) need to trust their handler.

Cross breed or not I couldnt reject any animal, and I certainly wouldn't have ill feeling of anyone who owned a cross bred horse or dog - after all accidents happen! If it's acceptable when its an accident - it doesn't add up really does it

I love puggles i think they are well cute!

"I love puggles i think they are well cute!"

Yes I too think they are quite cute but have you seen photo's of all the 'badly bred' Puggles?  Afterall its hit and miss whats going to end up being born isn't it.  The poor mites :(

JG, dont forget that at least if it all goes wrong with a horse, you can eat it!  cant do that with a dog!!!

Yep did that with the Rabbits all the time, which is why people were quite happy to inbreed strongly and experiment.

With dogs there are other people involved in the results of a breeders decisons.

Horse is very nice indeed, better than beef as far as I am concerned.

I wonder why it isn't popular in the UK.  In my view it would help to preserve breeds of horses when there would be a market for the surplus.  At least with the natives that live free range they would have a good life before slaughter unlike some other animals kept for meat.

It was people eating horse meat that turned me into a vegetarian way back when I was 12. My favourite horse was slaughtered, he was a working horse and one day he was gone with a tractor sitting outside his stable instead. The experience upset me so much l've never eaten meat since -knowing I could have seen my friend packaged in the supermarket.

When I bred the Rabbits I could never have killed and eaten the ones I showed and bred from, but ahd no problem eating their children that I knew were destined for that fate from the off.

I would imagine it is similar to the Dairy farmer who woudl not eat any of his dairy cows that he knows and has kept for years, but can eat their calves.

My dad breeds sheep and get really attached to them, often bottle feeding lambs that are weak, doing all he can for them -yet he still can cope with having them slaughtered and the skins sold -he sold my mum (they're divorced) a skin and told her which sheep it used to be when it was alive! I think he's a bit weird, LOL.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with people eating meat, as long as I don't have to. :)

dairy farmer not eating dairy cows??? thats hardly surprising is it, i mean who would eat a dairy cow??? they are not designed to be eaten!!!

Well no but you know what I mean.  His prize Beef show cow then :D

Do the Dairy cows not end up in hamburger then?

JG, dont forget that at least if it all goes wrong with a horse, you can eat it!cool  cant do that with a dog!!!

I'm sure our Chinese members would disagree...

...ohhhh - even I'm ashamed of myself over that glib remark! :D

I could no more eat horse meat than dog meat. I remember when the mountain and morland breeds would be herded down and transported to sales, where the knacker men would buy mares, foals and youngsters for the meat trade, with various horse charities and private people trying to outbid them to attempt to give a life to these animals. The conditions they were kept in prior to transporting were dreadful, as were the conditions and treatment on the boat trip over to be slaughtered. It was many years ago I read and saw the pictures, does this still go on or are they slaughtered before they leave now?

I was talking about a domestic trade in Horse Meat, rather than export, as I strongly disagree with live animal exports except for breeding stock of course.

We now have Deer and Ostrich farmed for meat, why not surplus horse.  It will encourage land to be left for our native horses as there will be a viable use for the surplus.

See what you mean, got a bit carried away there...sorry.... just that I remember the sales so well!     However, having lived with and loved horses all my life i could no more eat them than eat my dog, nor breed them for meat. I take your point, and see what you mean....but shudder at the thought. truely personal feelings, no offence meant. :)

I am sure that many people nowadays feel the same about Rabbits, which I have always viewed in the same way as poultry (even though I bred and showed them), but many people view them in the same class of domestic animals as a Cat.

I used to take my kids to working farms when they were younger. One of the farms had a Guernsey and a Jersey that they used to demonsrate milking with.  Cows are so gorgeous, their eyes are deep and dark and I think cows' faces are really pretty.  Doesn't stop me eating them though and I can't really see the distinction between cows and horses when thinking of eating meat.

Couldn't eat dogs though. Don't know why but couldn't

Well Cheryls, I couldnt eat dogs either, and in the same way i couldnt eat horses. i think you would have needed to have lived with them, sat up nights waiting for them to foal, then being there when they do, sitting up nights with a colicy one, restoring the confidence in one that had been illtreated and feeling that bond....but then, I bet you'v done most of that.....felt that special bond, that deep love....with your dog, and thats how I feel, and how loads of horsy people feel. I'v lived on farms all my life, raised table rabbits, looked after animals which we'v later eaten. but a horse.........nooooooooooooo.........;)