Hi All

I've read a few threads on here but would like some fresh, up to date advice if that's okay?

As I've previously said on here Molly is fed in Hills Science Plan for puppies (vet recommended) & has been doing fine on it for the past 6/7 months now (although she does do the occasional smelly trump??) however she will be turning 1 yr in April & I was wondering how to go about the switch to adult food & whether to switch to Hills Adult (I know a lot of you don't particularly like this food) or whether to ween her onto something different?  I have considered JWB as the majority of you seem to rave about it & it is available at my local Tesco's (I think!) so don't have to make the monthly trip to PAH (no where near where we live!).  I don't wanna start a big debate (I know every dog reacts diff to diff foods!) would just like some advice from owners who have recently experinecd this change & when I should begin?

Also whilst I'm posting can someone give me some tips on good, healthy treats for dogs Molly's age?  At the minute she gets a stuffed kong, the occasional bone & 3/4 reduced fat bonios whilst out retrieving.

Thanks again!

Gemma

Hi there, what breed is Molly??You know how the whole food debate goes feed what your dog looks best on and thrives on. I feed JWB but unfortunately it isn't available from Tescos. Is there a local Pet shop that could order it in for you saving you the trip to PAH???? You can order JWB from their website and have it delivered to your door. I am a big fan of JWB and my dogs are testiment to that.
As far as healthy treats JWB do a range called crackerjacks which contain absolutely no junk. There are also new treats called Fish4dogs which I purchased of the internet and my dogs absolutely loved them, again all completely natural. You could feed pigs ears or have you thought about raw chicken wings. I give all these to may dogs as they are great for cleaning teeth.
Kind regards, Clare

Thanks Clare, Molly is a choc lab!  I could have sworn I'd seem it in Tesco's but I could get getting it confised with Bakers???

I'm a bit confused abour raw chicken wings - do you mean I buy them from supermarket with skin & meat on etc & just give it to her raw with everything still on? Do I have to keep them fresh or can they be given frozen?

Going to do a seach now for JWB website, there is a local pet store but opening times are funny & I generally find when I get there they are closed.  I don't mind the trip to PAH too much but I always end up coming away with a lot more than just food...ie new toys & the OH goes barmy at me for spending! lol! that's the reason I wasn't allowed to Crufts..bo hoo!

I used to order JWB from my vet might be worth asking.

I think it would be a good idea to change to JWB.

As for treats - for training treats try hotdog sausages cut up, or small cubes of Value cheddar cheese. 

If you mean chews etc, I find it best to buy toys which are incredibly hard for the dog to get the treat out of, like Stuff-A-Balls by Kong or like balls with holes to put food inside.  That way a small bit of food keeps them busy for a very long time and also helps clean their teeth.

Hi there, no they definately don't sell JWB in Tescos, I wish they would though too!! Yes I give them raw to the dogs skin, bones the lot and they love them. ALWAYS feed the chicken wings RAW as cooked bones are dangerous and brittle and can cause a dog to choke. I was soo surprised at how easily my dogs crunch up the wings raw and their teeth are gleaming. I buy them from Tesco in the value box for around £1.30 and I give the dogs 2-3 wings each as a treat. I usually feed them straight from the fridge but I know others who freeze them and give them to their dogs frozen, either is ok to do. Feeding raw poses as much risk as feeding dry kibble. Do adjust your dogs food portion as you will see her waistline expanding if you don't! Tell me about overspending, I didn't get a chance to overspend this year as we where showing a dog at Crufts and I didn't get a chance to leave the bench, just as well as my credit card would be burnt out!!
Kind regards, Clare

Hi All
We give cooked ox liver cut up small to our 13wk GSD for treats
Its very cheep and you can get it at most supermarkets. (35p for 500g)
She will do almost anything for a bit !!!
H.B.

Oh well! guess I'll just have to continue with my PAH monthly trip!  :rolleyes:

Can anyone give me some advice on how to ween her onto adult food, do I gradually add more adult & less puppy, how much do I start with?  Is this okay with the foods being from diff providers? Over what time period should I do this?

Raw chicken wings it is then next time I'm at the supermarket! With regards adjusting food portions if she gets one wing every other day for example how much should I adjust her food by, 10%, 20%?  I'm very wary when it comes to giving Molly treats with her being a lab...don't wanna be on Fat Pets!!!

Thanks!

I would change food over a period of about a week to 10 days depending on how it seems to be going ie start with 10% a day change but if no adverse reaction you can speed it up towards the end to complete it within a week, if that makes sense :)
Not sure about how much to reduce a labs food to include wings but I would not worry too much about the fat thing, it doesn't happen overnight which is what makes those people so despicable :( just keep an eye on the pups general condition and one wing every other day is not going to create any great imbalance in the diet for a dog of that size.

You can also get food (JWB) from here, I use proplan thats what Blade was on and they have some fantastic deals from this company (not sure if the link thing will work but I will try... www.petdepartment.co.uk  they deliver to your door using DHL
hope this helps
Emz

Turkey or lamb????

The site sells both, but I don't know which is better etc as I don't feed JWB

What about duck or fish?  My pup loves all varieties :)  About JWB though they recommend you change to the Junior food at 6 months then the Adult at 12 months

First things first - are you happy with Hills Science Plan and does your dog do well on it?  If so, stick to it   As for the changing over to adult food thing I'd recommend doing it over a period of 10 to 14 days.  However much your Choccy gets fed now divide this by how many days your going to take for the 'change' and reduce her current food by that amount.  For example, 40 grams of food divided by 10 = 4 grams so minus 4g of puppy food and add that 4g back in adult food i.e. 36g of puppy plus 4g of adult.  Give the same quantities at pups next meal(s) that day.  The next day decrease the puppy food by another 4g and increase the adult by that amount i.e. 32g puppy plus 8g adult.  Continue to decrease the puppy food and increase the adult food until your lab puppy is fully onto the adult .  Once fully weaned onto adult food you'll possibly need to decrease the amount of food cos dogs usually need less of the adult than they did of the puppy - use the 'packet' as a guide but its just a case of trial and error :)

P.S.  There's quite a few different flavours of Hills Adult Food (chicken, beef, lamb, tuna) so you can rotate these flavours to give pup a variety i.e. when one bag of chicken is finished open a bag of lamb etc :)  Hills can be bought off the net (which would save you your monthly trips to PAH) and the more you buy the more you save

P.P.S.  Treat wise I like Natures:Menu treats for our pup.  They come in chicken and beef flavours, are quite small so very handy for rewarding good behaviour, natural and very tasty according to our little pup :D

P.P.S.  All dogs fart on occasions - its when they are of the 'offensive' variety you want to worry ;) haha

Should not worry to much about changing flavours as Dogs do not have as many taste buds as we do (they have about 1,700 on their tongues, while we humans have about 9,000), . They have over 200 million scent receptors in their noses (we have only 5 million) so it is important that their food smells good, it is the smell that initially attracts them to a particular food. And given that most complete foods contain chicken oil or a particular animal fat, so as far as a dog goes if it smells ok to dog they will eat it. Changing food to often starts the fussy dog syndrome. My own opinion of Hills is that it is not very good value for money and the company has poor ethics on animal care.-Jo

.... Utterly baffled as to how this thread has progressed. Forgive me because I am new to the boards but have been breeding Mollys breed for 15 years and if you are doing ok with the brand you are on, absolutely do not switch! There is no need!

Now to show my subjectivity in this debate, I loathe Hills and feed James Wellbeloved. But your post said that your girl was doing very well on her current brand and you asked about when to switch from puppy to adult formula etc. Yet I read down the thread and suddenly all advice seems to be to change the brand.

Hills is a quality food, my only gripe with it is the fact vets think it is the be all and end all of the world because they make tons of commission on it. By all means change but why fix something that isn't broken?

More to the point, on any complete dog food, I advise my puppy buyers to go from puppy to Junior food at 6 months, then from junior to adult food around 10 months at the latest. In the past when we all fed meat and biscuit dogs matured slowly at their own pace, not pushed aheadby huge portions of protein, so its wise to change as early as possible with labs andlet them mature on a low protein level at their own pace.

Of course I agree with the suggested brand, but why change when your dog is entirely orientated digestively to Hills?
Di

"Forgive me because I am new to the boards but have been breeding Mollys breed for 15 years [...]"

Who's Molly?  OP is called Gemma

"Now to show my subjectivity in this debate, I loathe Hills and feed James Wellbeloved. But your post said that your girl was doing very well on her current brand and you asked about when to switch from puppy to adult formula etc. Yet I read down the thread and suddenly all advice seems to be to change the brand."

I didn't!

"Hills is a quality food, my only gripe with it is the fact vets think it is the be all and end all of the world because they make tons of commission on it."

OP said they got it on their monthly trip to Pets At Home so will be cheaper than at the Vets anyway :)

"More to the point, on any complete dog food, I advise my puppy buyers to go from puppy to Junior food at 6 months, then from junior to adult food around 10 months at the latest."

Hills don't do a Junior food - only Puppy and Adult :)

>Hills is a quality food,<

I strongly disagree with this statement! :rolleyes:

The point of changing flavours or brands of foods regularly is not because of the taste factor IMO,its to provide variety. No dog,human,living being should be fed the same food day in day out,this IMHO is not healthy option,they need a variety of foods,this ensures they get the variety of nutrients that different foods contain.

Alot of people may disagree,but i dont think one food will fulfill every dogs nutritional needs.IMO there is no such thing as the perfect food.One food may lack something the other has plenty of.Feeding a variety balances things out :) Variety is my first point for changing foods regularly,different taste and smell comes second.

I dont know about anyone elses dogs,but mine react differently to different foods,they get mega excited when their favourite is being served up,much more so than when i serve up chicken and veg or whatever. I truly believe,well i know, dogs not only need variety,they appreciate variety,different smells and textures etc. It keeps things interesting for them :)
Dogs WILL eat the same old food everyday,because they have no choice,but whats it going to hurt to change it up a bit for them every now and then?? Dogs fed on the same food constantly tend to get used to that food,when  a different one is introduced they get all manner of problems like the squits etc.,some even react with pancreatitis,colitis :( I prefer my dogs to have cast iron stomachs which is why i have always given them a wide variety of different foods,be it commercial,raw or homecooked,no amount of diet changes effects their tums

... I enjoy reading your view here regarding swapping and changing food. I strongly disagree with you but its enjoyable and informative when someone backs up an opposing view with fact and considered thoughts!

Personally I feel you are applying too many human characteristics to canines when you speak of a need for variety for varieties sake... but if your dogs do well on changing food regularly, who is anyone to knock it! ;-)

Di

"Variety is my first point for changing foods regularly,different taste and smell comes second."

The downside to this is dogs with 'sensitive digestive systems' such as our breed - the Sheltie.  As we've experienced with our 2 previous Shelties in the past switching foods causes a lot of tummy upset until they've 'settled on it' which can take about a month!  I do agree that it would be ok for some dogs but its not for others.  This is why a good food with a variety of flavours is a good idea to keep dogs interested in their food.  Some lucky people have dogs that will eat the plainest of foods day in day out and never get sick of it so :p to them ;)

Where does a Gemma come into this? I was replying to the original message giving opinion. She is a chocolate labrador called Molly.

Di

I thought you were talking about the original poster (she's called Gemma) :)

No I was talking about her dog ;-?  ;-? As she asked about feeding issues....
Di

:D  that's what happens here, Di!

Margot

....Indeed.
Di

Sometimes it makes me cross, other times it makes me laugh....hysterically......while I sit in the corner gently rocking .....

Hi Gemma,

Food is an emotive subject on this board ;)  I think the phrase to adopt is "horses for courses" and do what you think it best for your dog and also for you.  You will always get differing opinions because everyone has different experiences and dogs with different constitutions and varying health issues.

If you are happy with the food you are giving your dog now then there is no need to change.  The majority of dogs do very well on most of the foods on the market.

My own experience is that of 3 complete brands that I gave my dog in the early days JWB suited her best and we have stuck with that ever since.  I buy the big bags and change the flavours each time I buy a bag but I don't think she notices TBH ;) I do it more for my benefit than hers :D  As you have said yourself, there are many people on here that think JWB is a very good food and I would have to agree, however, there are also some people who have found this food does not suit their dogs so don't be too bound by what people say.  Go with your instincts.

Gosh! I'm more confused than ever now....I'm Gemma & my dog is Molly just to clear that up...:)

Maybe this will help...when we first got Molly she was being fed Pedigree PC (I know your opinions on that) & her poo's were very runny (sorry I know it's early), we kept her on it for a few months but after speaking to the vet (I know they get commission etc but being 1st time owners we were keen to do the best by her) we changed her to Hills Science Plan for puppies & she's been on it ever since.  She hasn't shown any real signs of not liking it although she doesn't go to straight away like she used to but whenever she eats she always licks the bowl clean :) eventually!  The reason I wanted to change her food to something like JWB Adult is because 1) I've heard really good things on here about it & it does seem more readily available & 2) whenever I mentioned in previous posts that Molly was on Hills I got the distinct impression it was disliked massively by the majority because of it's content & value for money :(  I know it's maybe not such a good thing to chop & change a dogs food & that's why I wanted guidance on wheening so as to do it gently & slowly :)

I appreciate all your comments & advice but do still feel I will change Molly's food to JWB over the next few weeks (as I said you all rave about it so it's must be good :))  I'll probably get Turkey to begin with & like someone said when the bag is finished try Lamb for a change......bit random but is it stocked at Bookers Cash & Carrry?  My Auntie works for the company & has offered to get me a card so I can stock up & save money!

I'm also going to stock up on some raw chicken wings next time I'm at Tesco as think she will love them & help clean her teeth instead of those terrible DentaStix (wot a rip off!).  JWB seem to do some good treats also...

Thanx again!

There is a very old saying 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it'. Your dog has had problems on other foods. You have found one that suits and now you are going to risk changing it on a whim. If the food you feed suits your dog, then I would stick with whatever food that is. Be it complete, raw or anything else :) There is no right or wrong to feeding dogs. The best thing to use is what suits your dog best.

...I could not agree more with that. Seems during my 10 days on these boards I've seen that Arden Grange, Beta, Pedigree Chum, Hills and Tescos all sell food that is likely to smite your dog down at a moments notice! ;-) Raw feeding prgrammes and JWB seem to have the thumbs up.... crumbs! As Admin says, by golly its all horses for coursesand we shouldn't be labelling certain brands as bad and good - they suit some and don't suit others. Look at the rough old fatty meat and biscuit we used to feed our dogs before complete foods came on the market - yet now around 50% of domestic pets are obese! Who's to say that these high quality foods are any good for our dogs ;-(

makes me a tad cross to find somewhere so influential as this has a very definately 'right and wrong' list set on food brands it seems ;-(

Di

yep ;)

It drives most of us to distraction too, Di! ;)

Admin, i take you never watched Fat pet on channel 4 last week then 

The animals with the biggest problems weren't being fed dog food, though! ;)

Quote from Admin < There is no right or wrong to feeding dogs. The best thing to use is what suits your dog best.>the lady with rotte was feeding with raw meat obtained from her butchers and she was of the opinion that her dog was fine !!!!!!!!!.Nothing wrong in improving things even if they aint broke after all the penny farthing  was a bike that was not broken but we come a long way since then -JO

"he lady with rotte was feeding with raw meat obtained from her butchers and she was of the opinion that her dog was fine"

But she was feeding an excessive amount - 16lbs of meat only lasted the dog 4 days!!!

"Nothing wrong in improving things even if they aint broke"

The point most people are trying to make in this thread is that if the OP starts chopping and changing food to try and find one that suits her dog 'better' she may upset the dogs digestive system and cause more harm than it does good in the process of finding this one food - and thats if its out there!  If a dog is healthy, active, had shiny eyes a good coat and does good poo's then why change just so all that can be upset?

But according to the vast majority of CD members Hills is broke...so I'm fixing it with JWB!

It's not whether the food is broke - it's whether your dog is! ;) If it suits your dog (who none of us have ever seen or examined, so can't tell whether the food suits her or not ;)) and suits your pocket, then by all means carry on with it.

You're the expert when it comes to Molly, and your first post said she

> has been doing fine on it for the past 6/7 months now

It doesn't sound as though she's broke ... ;) :)

I've seen posts on here in the past that have stated that JWB doesn't suit their dog.  Don't change just because of what you've seen on here.  Make your own mind up based on what you know about your dog.  If she's doing well on Hills what's the problem?

Hills, the new Pedigree Proffesional for in whelp bitches, and JWB have all made my dogs very loose, have never ever had a problem with any of the Arden Grange range, and on Autarky their toileting was softer than usual for a day or two, but perfectly Ok.

Various other foods I hvve tried over the years have suited them all fine, including BARF as I would class them in the Cast Iron stomachs class, but just a few foods do upset them, (or rather me having to clear up loose poo)..

"But according to the vast majority of CD members"

Vast majority? Can we get this into perspective please :) We have in the region of 7000 members and I doubt that even a fraction of those members have expressed an opinion either way. Please be aware that a vocal minority (on either side), do not speak for the vast majority of members. Although they have a jolly good try ;)

Basing your decisions on what you perceived to be a total 'NO' vote, isn't necessarily in your dogs interests, whichever side of the fence you sit on. The fact remains that you have found a food that suits your dog. Your dog does have some form of food intollerance. You are prepared to alter this food on the sayso of a handful of members. I hope this clarifies matters :)

"Basing your decisions on what you perceived to be a total 'NO' vote [...]"

The OP is basing her decisions on a "vote" outside of this topic when the vast majority of posters in here are saying stick to what she feeds now.  The other topics that say 'JWB is the only food to feed!' it is the members who scrutinise ingrediants lists and claim to be dog nutritionists who say this.  Most other people, who have fed different feeds and know how their dogs do on them, urge others to go with what they feel is right for their dog :rolleyes:

>The other topics that say 'JWB is the only food to feed!' it is the members who scrutinise ingrediants lists and claim to be dog nutritionists who say this.

You can count those members on one hand!

Hi Gemma,

I think you'll find that *the vast majority of CD members * rarely, if ever, post on feeding threads ;)

While there are undoubtedly different grades of foods and vastly different price points, if your dog is currently doing well on a particular brand and you can afford it then let that be your guide.   It's mainly those with dogs who are perhaps suffering a skin or GI problem on certain foods that feel the need to *fix it*

For all you know you may cause such a problem by moving to an alternative food!  regards, Teri

Yes people 'rave' about JWB but if you read other posts theirs many members who 'rave' about a variety of foods :)  I switched our pup over from Burgess Supadog Sensitive Lamb & Rice cos not only was it an adult food and she should have been on puppy, but she also didn't do particularly well on it.  I got a stock of 'samples' of several brands of food - ranging from Beta to JWB - and gaiged what she 'liked' and what her poo's were firm on etc from there.  Then I bought 1 bag of which she seemed best on, tried her on that for the past few months and thats how I know its the food for her.  Just for the record its half Burns Puppy Bites with half JWB Junior.  No I am not a food snob its what she does well on and believe me if she'd done better on one that cost £2 for a 15KG bag (I wish) she'd be on that! :D  But I strongly advise you to stick to what Molly is on if she's doing well on it :)  Our last two Shelties were on Hills Science Plan for about the last 5 years of their lives and did great on it

In response to one of your previous posts - have you tried adding a couple of tablespoons of boiled water to Molly's meals to release the meaty smell and produce a 'gravy'?  IME a lot of dogs find this irrisistable so it could just be the answer to her not taking much interest in her food initially ;)

Edit to say - I mixed a small amount of 1 of the samples with our girls existing food.  When one sample was finished (took about 4 days) I went onto the next doing exactly the same :)

Oh! I feel like I'm being ganged up on now!!

I guess if she is fine on it then maybe I should try switching her to the adult variety & taking it from there, I'll get a small bag & gradually mix it in & see how she goes.

Being a 1st time owner I want to give Molly the best possible start in life & obviously food is a big part in maintaining her health & I am anxious to get it right!!  Hills it is for now then...

Thanks again, it's good to hear your opinions & I have certainly taken them on board...

Nobody is ganging up on you at all - we just want you to do whats right for your dog irrespective of what you feel the 'vast majority of members' state that every dog owner should do

Gemma all i can recommend doing is to compare the ingredients of science plan and JWB,the choice should be obvious ;)

Can i just confirm, are we talking about living breathing dogs or the old clanker out the backyard when the adage >if it aint broke,dont fix it< is bandied about?

Can i throw a couple of my own into the mix :) Prevention is better than cure.Why wait for it to be broke before you fix it. Its cheaper to prevent nutrition related probelms than it is to cure them ;)

Prevent what?  There may be an arguement against buying from vets when a food is available cheaper from another source but there are no complete foods in the UK that are not fully formulated to meet all the nutritional requirements of a dog nor any harmful ingredients.  Why can't people just feed what their dog is enjoying and is suiting there particular digestive system?  In fact, apart from the "ingredient readers" far from the majority being against Hills, unlike every other food I can think of :) I can't actually recall any poster reporting a bad result from Hills, although no doubt one will pop up now ;)
Why can't people be just left to feed what their dog is thriving on ie "If it ain't broke why fix it" :D

I reckon you've got it in a nutshell, Isabel. For my part, every time I tiptoe through the Feeding Section I find myself getting quietly more bolshy as well as wondering how many new owners are left feeling at best confused and at worst total failures. Everyone wants the best for their dog but I reckon we are in serious danger of over-complicating things given the vast choice available and the absolute certainty in some people's heads that there is only one way to feed. Their way!

When I was a child our dogs, like most other people's dogs that I knew, thrived on meat and biscuits supplemented by table scraps. Pups were fed a suitable version of an adult diet and nothing terrible seemed to happen to their digestion as a result. The word "allergy" was rarely heard either!

And yes, there are more sophisticated alternatives available nowadays but basically if your dog is thriving, gaining a sensible amount of weight and doesn't have diabolical dire rear then I wouldn't don't chop and change for the sake of it.