We have a 3 1/2 yr old black lab who we would very much like to use as a stud dog.  Purely because we would like a second dog and cannot think of anything better than to have one of his pups.  I know everyone thinks that their dog is the best, but we do believe he would be a good choice for the right bitch to produce a good litter.  We also have a list of family and friends that would love to get their hands on his offspring. He has a fantastic temperament and has a very impressive background of working labs.  As yet we have not had his hips scored or eyes tested which we would obviously do before any breeding could be considered.  I know it doesn't mean to much but both parents had very good scores and we hope this will carry on.  Our questions and concerns are these;
1  How do we find the right bitch?
2  We took him to field trials last year for the first time and he did very well coming fourth in the scurry without much preperation (His uncle has won it for the last 3 years).  We intend to take him again when the season starts with more training.  How long will we need to show him like this before someone may take an interest? We would like him to be young enough to enjoy having a pup around.
3  Have we left it too late with hip and eye scoring? Does age effect it?  He was tested at birth and we limited his activities such as jumping etc for as long as possible for the first year and he has never been overweight. 
4  Our biggest concern is the possibility that his behaviour may change.  As I said he has a great temperament and we would hate for this to alter.
If you haven't fallen asleep reading all that then your comments would be helpful. Thank you

Hi Gary! If you do a search here on CD, you will find this subject discussed quite a few times before. Also, on the very top of the breeding board ,you will find usefull information. If you want a new dog that's similar to the one you already have, in type and temperament,contact your breeder. A dog from the same lines as the one you've got, is more likely to resemble him, than what his offspring might do.
Best of luck,
Karen

I wouldn't breed from him for that reason alone.  As you may have read on previous posts there are more than enough Lab's being bred from as it is.

Regarding hips though, no I don't think that the hips deteriorate much with age unless of course the dog has a problem.  I had one of my girls hip scored at 5 years of age and she scored 6/4 which is under the breed average.  Oh and she can jump 6 foot in the air from standing and has done so since she was around 5 months of age.  I tried to stop her because I was worried about her doing any damage to her hips, but luckily it didn't have any affect at all.

Perrodeagua
I appreciate that but he is a fine dog with a lot to offer, not only thought of by us but those who meet him.  Not a decision we will make easily and there are more con's than pro's to using him.
Thats good to know about the hip scoring, thanks

& he shiould be DNA tested for PRA as well of course as well as being clinically screened

Thank you that does make sense but unfortunatly his mother will not be having another litter and his father is getting on a bit and I think he's retired from the good life.  Def worth checking though.

Gary - besides hip and eye scores, you'll also need to get his elbows scored (which can be done at the same time as his hips).

As for your questions:

1.  It is very hard for dog owners to find bitches.  What usually happens is the bitch owners approach a dog owner and ask permission to use their dog.  If you approach a bitch owner you will be seen to be a bit "forward" and will reveal yourself to have the wrong motivations at heart (ie just to have one of your dog's pups rather than be breeding to better the breed).  Any responsible bitch owner would refuse you.  Your best bet is to get the tests done on your dog, continue to work your dog, and just hope that a bitch owner with a nice bitch spots him and thinks he's nice and approaches you.  You say that you have many friends and family who want one of the litter - the problem there being that it's not up to you who gets a pup from the litter, it's only up to the bitch owner who will also vet the homes and select them, so all your friends and family will probably end up disappointed. 

2.  Sorry to put a downer on this but "scurries" are not part of field trials.  A scurry is an informal competition organised at game fairs and the like, whereby dogs are timed to see how fast they can pick up dummies.  They are not recognised by the KC.  If you are hoping to work your dog with a view to getting him noticed by bitch owners, this just isn't going to be enough. 

Field trials on the other hand are run as a normal shoot day - for retrievers, a walked-up shoot, where birds are shot and dogs are sent for the birds.  It is very hard to be successful in field trials, even harder with your first dog, and almost impossible if your dog is now 3 and a half and hasn't been trained specifically for this from puppyhood.  Your best bet now is probably to enter some gundog working tests in the summer months and hope to win through those to the Open category.  Gundog working tests are run on dummies, not game, except for the Open category where cold game is used.  If you had a really good Open category dog at gundog working tests you would probably get the right kind of attention.  However, this is a bit pie-in-the-sky for a 3 and a half year old who hasn't been specifically trained as a gundog from an early age.

3.  Some people believe that age does affect hip/elbow scores, however you haven't left it too late - I know of 7 yr old dogs being scored and getting good scores.  No bitch owner is even going to consider your dog unless you have these health tests done, so they're not really optional and there's no point worrying about whether it's too late or not.

4.  Sometimes male dogs which are used at stud get more grumbly and aggressive around other entire males.  Whether this will happen to yours or not, who can say.

Personally I think your best bet is not to breed from this dog but to get a puppy from lines you like and then try your hardest to train him from the start to be a gundog by competing in gundog working tests and maybe, if he's good enough at those, field trials. 

One two three
Some very good points which unfortunatly are very true.
1  Just to cover a few points more tho.  I do wish to have one of his pups yes, but providing his health tests prove to be good I think he will better the breed and in all honesty I would much prefer to have his offspring go to more appropriate working owners than family and friends.
I just meant they wouldn't go without good homes.
2  The scurry isn't the best I know but he was trained initially for shoots from a pup (granted it was with a starting pistol and dummies) so I hope the Gundog working tests you mention are not totally off the cards.
Thanks
   

& have you homes lined up for the other possible 12 + puppies & do you as a stud dog owner have the facilities to take in any of his puppies at any stage of their lives if they are no longer wanted. The stud dog owner has 50/50 responsibility fot the puppies their dogs produce-somethiung many "novice"stud dog owners forget or ignore

BTW there is a very good likelyhood that your dog will change after being used at stud & not for the bett

Edited to add before doing the clinical tests you should have the DNA test done It's only about£150 & not to do so would leave you open to a very expensive court case should your dog produce any affected puppies & you failed to have the test done it comes under negligence BTW

Gary, just a thought, but you risk, possibly loosing the dog you have now (with a change in temperament) and ending up with a pup that takes after the dam anyway.  Is it worth it?  Much easier and less risky is to find another puppy with his lines.  Even if his dam is not having another litter, if he is from good lines, it should not be too difficult to find a pup with similar breeding.  The other thing to bear in mind is that there are a lot of very good FT lab studs out there already.  Unless your boy proves himself in the field, no owner of any decent bitch is likely to want to use him.

The thing is Gary, there are alot of ifs and buts, and alot of hopes and wishes, but the bottom line is, you don't control whether the dog is used at stud or not.

Bitch owners contact stud owners, not the other way around. So all you can do, is prepare him for the possibility that someone might ask. That is, get his hips and elbows scored and his eyes tested, and also have the Optigen DNA test. Then at least you're ready (provided the results are good enough)

Dawn R.