I have a collie pup. The breeder recommended feeding her raw meat which we are doing. We took her to the vets last week for her jab. The vet said that by feeding her raw meat we were putting her at risk of contracting samonella and ecoli, we were putting the children at a similar risk and it could make her hyper. She advised us to stop feeding raw meat and give her only the puppy food. Should we still feed her raw meat, do the benifits outweigh the risks ? :rolleyes:

Hi, what exactly are you feeding your pup?  I feed mine a raw diet, but it includes bone, vegetables, meat and offal, not just meat.  My dogs have raw chicken every day and they have not contracted anything nasty, nor have we.  You have to keep your surfaces in the kitchen clean, of course, but I'm sure you do that anyway.

Mine are fed raw also- theree is much discussion as to the pluses and minuses of this diet
Mine are doing brilliantly on it
PS mosr defrosted meats are said to kill any salmonella etc

OMG a conventional vet who is against raw feeding,what a surprise Did he recommend you put your pup on science plan too?
In all seriousness most vets will steer you away from raw feeding.They are afraid people will feed their pups an unbalanced diet that can/will cause serious orthopedic problems in the future,or just throw their dogs a hunk of meat and think this is raw feeding.
Dogs can pick up salmonella from dry food,pigs ears,chicken and duck poop and all manner of other places,fresh human grade meat from the butcher would be the least of my worries.The chance of a dog picking up salmonella in the first place is extremely remote,it doesnt affect them like it does us.They can eat rancid maggot infested meat and not get sick,we can not!

What exactly are you feeding your pup,is he getting all the correct nutrients etc. Did you tell your vet exactly what you feed?

Dogsrus there risks in every form of feeding,i have known dogs who have choked and died on kibble.It is up to you to weigh up the risks and benefits.Does your pup have a shiny coat,bright eyes,loads of energy and growing slow and steady?
I have NEVER heard of a raw diet making a dog hyper,and i have been involved in health and raw feeding for a very long time!

I told the vet exactly what we were feeding her and he basically said l was putting her life at risk

Hi,
Dont panic unduly till your in possesion of all the facts..from both sides of the fence :)
   The vast majority of people who 'BARF' feed would never dream of going back to a commercial diet,and see great results :)
    Hygiene is important went prepping but dont forget basic food hygeine starts with the correct storage of your raw content and this is ensuring correct temperature control (Bacteria multiply in temps 5oC to 63oC, the 'danger or Growth' zone)Cleaning and handwashing etc just stops cross contamination..you want to nip it in the bud before that as well as that.
    Have a look at this link:
http://caberfeidh.com/NaturalDiet.htm
Its a really good article for people new to raw feeding! If your breeder is experienced in BARF feeding I'd go back to them for advice, its important to get it right and be confident your getting it right.
HTH :D

Just had a look at that link, gave me some food for thought (pardon the intended pun) thanks HG :)

Couldnt agree more with HG :)
Handle your dogs meat with the same hygiene practice you handle your families with and you shouldnt run into problems.Also as HG mentioned go to your breeder with your concerns :)

Have a look at this article [link]http://rawfed.com/myths/bacteria.html[/link] it also gives you a link to dogs spreading bacteria to humans :)

I have been feeding her tripe and chicken from the pet shop as instructed by the breeder along with eggs, puppy food and milk. Would it be ok to just give her the puppy food ?

Dogsrus...

I fed BARF about 5 years ago when I only had 2 dogs.  I used chicken, eggs, veggies and supplements.  One of mine was gorgeous and healthy on the diet, the other got samonella poisoning.   My vet was upset, not because I was feeding BARF, but because I didn't sit down and talk with her about the pros and cons (she's very into researching food) and let her help me come up with a 'recipe'.  ;) 

The others are correct in that dogs run a low risk, extremely low, of contracting salmonella due to the bacterial make-up of the stomach.  However, you won't know if your dog can get it until it does...hence the scary part.  She had to spend 4 days in the hospital on an IV and then several months on a special food to replace the flora in her intestines. 

It's a decision that you need to weigh...do you want the benefits of BARF or do you want to worry about the risk?  I would still be feeding BARF if she'd not gotten ill...like I said, the other prospered.  It's just no longer a risk I'm willing to take.  :)

Thanks Gibson
As you say it is a decision that I need to weigh. :rolleyes: Is it safer to feed meat fit for human consumption than the meat from the pet shop as that the breeder recommended ?

I'm sorry, Dogs, I'm in the US and the only meat we have in the pet store is in a can.  ;)  Wet dog food.  When I did BARF I was going to the grocery or the butcher for their meat.  I'd separate the meat out in bags on Sunday, put it in the freezer...pull it out the night before, let it thaw in the fridge, mix in their egg, veggies and supplements at feeding time.

Either way you decide, you'll have people wonder why you went that route...why WOULD you feed BARF?  Why WOULDN'T you feed BARF?  At the end of the day, your dog is your own and you have to do what you're comfortable with.  No matter what you decide, if your dog is healthy and does well on it's feed, that's what counts.

Good luck to you!

> in the US and the only meat we have in the pet store is in a can.<

Gibson why would you say that

Alot of pet stores in The US carry chubs,frozen,dehydrated etc meat.

Then let me correct myself and say in my city and in my state...don't know what a 'chub' is, I suppose you could count pet jerky as dehydrated meat and the only frozen that  my shop carried is Bil Jac dog food.  Perhaps I've misunderstood the OP.  I can tell you with certainty that Pet Supplies Plus and PetSmart in my town have nothing that you can use for a BARF diet as far as meat is concerned.

I've used Prize Choice frozen meat (together with human grade meat) for the last 6 years and neither of my two dogs has ever had an upset tum, let alone anything worse :)

Daisy

>Is it safer to feed meat fit for human consumption than the meat from the pet shop as that the breeder recommended ?<

The risk of salmonella is far lower in meat fit for human consumption,then it would be meat destined for pet food. I buy all my dogs meat from the butcher,they eat what I eat :)

Oh Vets like this do make me so cross   Firstly, talk to your breeder, they should be more than happy to help you with any feeding issues you may have, after all, they know what suits their breeding & their dogs.  Sadly the vast majority of Vets know nothing about raw feeding & even less on nutrition and for their own pockets would prefer that all of their clients were fed on Hills/Royal Canin & the like :rolleyes:

I also think it's terrible that the Vet should scare you by saying you were putting your family at risk   If I were you, please see a different Vet next time.  You could also ask around the various Vet practices to ask if there are any Vets who like to follow a more natural way of treating pets & is ok with raw feeding.

I remember just over 12 months ago I brought in a new puppy & just a few days later my adult dogs were one by one, knocked down with the most horrendous viral bug.  On one of my visits to the Vet to get some more medication I had to see one of the young Vets so I had to go through all of the explaining about the bug again & she asked what I fed my dogs.  My first reply was that they currently weren't getting anything as nothing could be kept down & then when I told her that normally they were fed the Barf diet she really laid into me (not a good idea when it comes to my dogs ), she accused me of poisoning my dogs, what did I expect if I fed raw food, blah, blah   Luckily for her, because I was so tired from having been up with the dogs for a week my simple reply was, "well the first thing I did when they became ill was bring in feacal samples, lets see what they show"!! then I promtly left leaving a message for the senior vet to phone me (so I could complain!).  Anyway, the next day all of the test results were in & blow me, every single test (bloods & feacal) were normal!!  Nothing at all could be found.  So that was one in the eye for the stupid Vet!!

Anyway, I'm rambling :rolleyes:  Please give your breeder a ring.  Also note what the others have said about being able to contract salmonella etc from dry foods and that as long as you practice good hygiene you & your puppy will be fine.  A raw diet certainly shouldn't make your puppy hyper (feed her solely on a complete puppy food of 34% then you'll see hyper!!).  In my opinion, the benefits of raw feeding certainly outweigh the small risks

Good luck with your puppy & try not to worry too much :)

I am thinking about changing vets, taking my other dog to his classes tonight so will speak to people there and see if they know any good local vets

Hi Dogsrus - am I right in thinking you are feeding the prize choice frozen blocks and minces you can get in Pets at Home?  Hey, these are fine if you are happy and your pup is doing well on them.  I sometimes feed these to my dogs as well as chickens, poussin, whole rabbit, duck, liver, kidney, heart, fish the odd veggie etc etc etc :D  I have been feeding this way for 2 1/2 years and my dogs look truly fabulous.  I am sooo convinced that this 'species appropriate' diet is so good for my dogs that there isn't a vet out there that could convince me otherwise.  It may be a good idea for you to carry on with the frozen blocks until you have fully researched and weighed up your options (it will also help with your confidence ;))  I dont push my beliefs about feeding onto anyone - it is a very personal and well thought out choice to make - so make it wisely!  I have changed vets 3 times now because of the lectures....Mind you they all come after the comments about how good my dogs look :D  I find it amusing that all the dog foods out there show pictures of fresh meat on their packs, clearly acknowledging the dog as a carnivore who would like nothing more than to tuck into a beef steak...Well in my house they can :D
I also find the argument by vets fairly amusing that they see more unhealthy dogs/injury's due to home made raw diets than anything else - Mmmmm so colitis, poor teeth, flaky skin cant be that common then!
Have a good research session  - then make your mind up, it can only be YOUR decision.
Sarah

Could the dogs ( or us ) get ecoli off of the meat, if so would it be much safer to feed human grade meat ?

Hi Em,
There are many strains of the E coli Bacteria some,harmless, present in the intestinal tract of humans and animals (warm blooded) those not harmless will induce symptoms such as vomitting and diarrhea (severe cases bloody diarrhea) dogs and humans are susceptible,tho dogs will sometimes not show the symptoms and pass on to humans. Most cases will pass between 5-10 days with out medication.
  E coli is found in Beef most commonly (but also can be found in Unpasturised milk...contaminated water.. you could catch it in your local swimming pool from fecal matter!)
delightful topic :D

Hi - if you have meat in your house, whoever it is intended for it will need to be prepared with normal 'preparation of raw meat' hygiene in mind.  If I cut chicken breast on the counter for myself I follow the same hygiene rules as if it was going into the dogs bowl.  They do have a tendency to drag ckicken wings around which I discourage as much as poss and I also disinfect quite often.  The dogs usually eat in the garden anyway!  I dont have children but if I did I would promote cleanliness around the kitchen and the dogs as well as discourage close contact with the dogs face after a raw chicken meal   Obviously store raw meat away from cooked in the fridge as well.  Apparently humans have more chance of contracting bacterial infections from egg shells than most meats?  Just follow common sense guidelines when raw meat is around and to be honest when I review some of the things by dogs have either eaten or attempted to eat I certainly dont worry about their stomachs so much!!!!!
Sarah

Sorry dogsrus - I didn't really answer your question!  I use the prize choice Chicken mince and tripe and my dogs have been a picture of health for the duration I have been feeding it - otherwise they get human grade meat from the butchers (luckily my lovely butcher views chick wings as waste and he gives me bags of them ;))
I would have thought that the main difference between pet raw meat and human raw meat is more to do with what part of the animal most of it came from as apposed to it being more unsafe?

I am using prize choice chicken and tripe, the dogs love it and look well. If I am having meat for tea they also get some of it (cooked). What is the benifit of feeding raw meat opposed to cooked meat ?

I believe, same as for humans, cooking things takes much of the nutrients away.

Raw food is abundant in enzymes,bacteria(probiotics) among many other things. These are just two very important things cooked food does not have.

Hi dogsrus

It is natural to be concerned over the health risks (real, perceived or imagined) that feeding raw may pose.

To put this into some sort of perspective, dogs (and humans) contract salmonella from salads, tortoises as well as many other sources.  E-coli can be contracted via cooked food, dirty hands, etc.  So, providing that you use correct hygiene controls, there is no more risk to feeding raw than cooked and to be honest dogs lick their own bottoms and manage to keep pretty healthy even on commercial! :D

I hope that you are not feeding JUST raw meat, but you mean that you are feeding raw as in meat with bones in it for the calcium content. puppies cannot develop without the correct phosphorous/calcium ratio which is provided by eating whole carcases etc.

Personally I feel the benefits outweigh any risk, I have been feeding raw for around 5 years now and my dog has NEVER contracted any disease, had an upset tummy or diarrhoea if that is any help.

However if you feel uneasy about it, don't do it.

HTH