I always thought a lab as a chunky square looking puppy/dog. My friend has brought one about 6 months ago and this puppy doesn't look like what I would have expected. She is quite small with almost a terrier looking face. Having looked around I have seen more labs looking like this.

Does anyone on here breed them? anyone know anything? (I don't want to buy one was just interested in the changed look - I am a TT person!)

My lab boy has a lovely big head...but you're right, there seem to be many about with rather pointed muzzles..

Probably what you're seeing is labs bred more along working lines rather than show lines. Have a look at photos of early labs and you can see where the split happened - the early ones had longer muzzles and were lighter in body than the ones you see in the showring nowadays.
:)

I have noticed that in adverts for puppies they sometimes say 'lovely chunky pups'.

Going to go and have a look at some pics on epupz!

I'm not sure that's the best place to see what well bred quality pups look like?! ;)

lol...no maybe not!...but some chunky pups on there.

The word 'chunky' in any labrador advert makes me run a mile, I'm afraid.

Have a look at the different types shown here. The 'Holton' type is more like the original imports.

We have had such a tour of types of labs looking into getting our first family pet - we looked into working and show lines and have plumped for an excellent kennel where the breeder manages to combine both; we were, thankfully, put on to her by a lovely lady who has one of her dogs herself as a pet.  The breeder in question shows predominantly, but does send some of her dogs off to be trained as working dogs too, where they have had some great successes and from what I can see she brings working strains back in to the breed from time to time.  The litter from which we are to get a pup (hopefully!) was whelped on Saturday night, and I'm just so excited.:-D

As a girl, I had two labs at home - one of each kind, I suppose, a 1970s beast of a Sandylands and a 1990s smaller fine featured type.  It does seem that chocs come out chunkier than most nowadays - is this because of Chessies getting them started or something?!?!:rolleyes:

When we bought our Labrador girl about 19 years ago (she dies 7 years ago), she was completely different from the ones I see running around these days. I don't know how it is like in UK, as I live in Continental Europe, but over here Labradors are becoming very big and big boned with wide heads and very short muzzles. When they run it almost seems like you're looking at some Mastiff. They even sound like it...... my girl was much more agile and with longer muzzle (the old time Lab as one of you mentioned). She came from a very good breeder and both her parents were imported from Canada. My breeder was in fact the first person that introduced Labradors in my country  .....

Some modern UK labradors have heads almost resembling a rottweiler!

The show lab's aren't exactly what you'd expect to see although there are of course some really nice ones (digging myself out of a hole).  I have a couple of friends who show Lab's and there's are the more leaner, breed type, that I'd expect.

I remember last year being at an Open Show where a Lab, that could hardly move around the ring let alone do a days work won BIS, I was totally shocked and I know a few others around the ring were too!

>Some modern UK labradors have heads almost resembling a rottweiler!

I regularly see one such yellow Lab on walks. He actually looks like a yellow Rottie as he has the height and build of one too. The owner assures me that this is how 'real' Labs should look :rolleyes:

They have bodies like rotties too, great lumbering things some of them,  they seem to have boxy heads, bone a mastiff would be proud of and great broad fronts and depth of rib, nothing like they used to be.

>nothing like they used to be

And nothing like they should be! :(

my two look completely different. My boy has a typical big head and is very stocky and muscular, with a really deep chest. My girl is a lot smaller, and more....curvy, for want of a better word. Her features a very slight, and her coat is a lot different too-nowhere hear as thick as his. I'm always surprised how diferent one lab is to the the next. My friend had a very tall slender one with quite a round head, long muzzle and huge hanging jowels, with an amlost over the back tail, whereas my neighbour has a typical show type male lab.

YOUR TWO are gorgeous :)

Mine is a mix of field and show lines and somewhere inbetween :)

A few pictures of mine all as different as chalk and cheese  ! :D

http://photobucket.com/albums/a229/moosesmummy/

Busy dogs - theyre lovely.  My girl is only 6 months old and to me she looks like the working type.  Her parents are showing but are a very nice shape.  Mines also got a lovely face - soz im biaised!
http:photobucket.com/albums/e215/madhouse127/?sc=5

http://photobucket.com/albums/e215/madhouse127

Don't know if i have done this right?

But here is Molly, (until all of this gets removed) :(

http://photobucket.com/albums/e338/deniseraines/?sc=1

molly's a babe! mums scotty looks like her- bit bigger and black- similar shape tho', soft muzzles

I guess we're not allowed to post photos then  oops!  Mollys lovely, such a poser

No lab lover, we're not supposed to post photos but poeple do and we may as well try while we can ! :)

I don't know why Labs have to be sooo.......... fat  oops sorry chunky, just for the show ring. I think it looks unhealthy and I'm sure they wouldn't last the day if they had to work in that condition, after all they are a gundog designed to work.

I have been told that Molly needsmore weight on her  but I can't see or feel her ribs and surely it's better all round to have a lean healthy dog?    Better for their heart and joints.

thankyou for your kind comments  :)

Who told you Molly needs to put on more weight?  I think your meant to be able to feel one or two ribs as a guide  If you think shes ok I wouldnt take their advice, as you say its bad for their joints etc

A couple of people who show their dogs :(

Admitally(sp) one was guided by a picture which doesn't really show her to her full potential ( and i had been slimming her down for speying)( which i have opted out of having done) and the other was some one who shows their dogs but never exercises them :(

Towards the bottom of the link I posted it says that a particular dual-purpose labrador had to lose 9kg from his 'show condition' to be able to take part in field trials, and then gain it again to go back in the ring! There's something very, very wrong there. :(

I think you're going to have to choose between a healthy dog and one that stands a chance in the showring. :(

Yes I have seen that page previously, :)

and this is the reason why I won't show my Lab, I would hate to have an extra 9kg of weight just to parade her around a show ring, I don't understand why judges favour the excessive weight when in my opinion it just isn't needed. :(

I couldn't agree more. I love labs and plan to have another one in a few years time, but even if she was from showing lines she'll never see the inside of a showring until fat is frowned upon. It's a shame - they're a truly lovely breed.

What really annoys me is when people ask for either a working lab or a show lab Labradors are a gundog and should be capable of doing both jobs, a Lab from "show stock" should be able to work  equally as well a "working stock" Lab.

Having said that, I don't think that the "working" Labs should look like whippets either :)

True, some of the 'working' types have gone too far the other way - neither camp is perfect! Unfortunately labs have gone the same way as many spaniels, with enormous differences between the show and working varieties. I think it's a tragedy, a sin even. :( The dogs deserve better. The best labs (and other gundog breeds of course) are the dual-purpose ones. A lab with the title of 'Champion' (as opposed to Field Trial Champion or Show (aka 'Shame' in certain circles) Champion) is a truly special dog. But, but, but it shouldn't have to shed or gain weight in order to do this.

she (molly) looks just like my Bu (who had the snip yesterday, so has discovered he can walk like an effeminate john wayne :D)

:D :D :D

ive got a working type lab and he is more like the original labs.  i am not at all keen on the show type labs who are far too chunky.  Talking of chunky, congrats to my lab who has gone from weighing 50.8kgs (ashamed to admit his obesity), to a healthy 38kgs in just under a year!

I was wondering you guys....what is the right average weight for a Lab these days. My girl (in her best years) was around 33kg. I never thought she was either fat or to thin.....she was just perfect.

WHy aren;t we allowed to post pics here? I\'ve never heard of that on a dog forum before

Its more to do with not posting a link/website to which 'your affiliated' being against TOS.....sadly.

So... you have all been verrrry Norty!
and must be punished
All these lovely Labs must be confiscated!!!
C'mon hand em over :p ;)
(they're adorable!!)

it is my understanding that labs should typically weigh abotut 34-35kgs. my boy is about 37-38 but he is bigger than average so the vets tell me this is normal for him

becky

my girl is about 28kgs but a tad overweight (she's only a small lab), and my boy is 30kgs (the vet thinks it possible he'll reach 40kgs at full maturity )

i didn't know about the TOS and not posting piccies-its a shame! Oh well, i've done it already-hehe!

slaps wrist and runs to doggies to hide them where no-one, especially HuskyGal, will find them

Our old lab (23" tall) weighed 65lb (30kg) in her prime; her ribs weren't visible but easily palpable, so a perfect weight for her health.
:)

kNow this may sound a little critical but.... chocomolly, you say you dont show your lab because she is not 'chunky enough....the photo's you sent to me a little while ago, She has a good topline, reasonable tailset, good honest head etc....dont know about conformation since cant go hands on.....so WHY dont you take a chance and show her.....One of the reasons we dont see these 'types' in the ring, is because, people like yourself have been told, by someone else blah blah....that she not heavy enough.....So dont go near a showring.....If more people who owned good honest fitter leaner Labs did take to the ring, who knows how the change may come back....Tia is anything but chunky, Ellie, while she was still with me, was very lean but was placed in every show entered....in fact I keep getting told a champ shows Tia is too skinny.....then why is she consistantly placed ??   Please all of you with taller 'less chunky' Labs.....if the conformation is good and everything is in the right place....give the showing a chance....Its the only way....Tia shows and works, and her weight has not varied in just under 18months.....My dogs are kept fit and healthy,

I have to say, many judges now are coming back to the 'dog should at least look as if it could do a days work' way of thinking, and has been mentioned in many critiques recently.....   At a show in the Autumn of last year. Tia and Ellie were entered inthe same class against 10 excellent competitors....Tia and Ellie took top placings in that order, however, the dog we beat was a Cracker, but the judges very public comment, nodding to my pair......"those dogs have a waistline"   If the dog who was placed 3rd, was not so heavy, we probably would not have taken top placings....

So please... dont be put off by the 'Chunkies'...get out there and show them what a Labrador should look like....

rant over

Hi Kayc,

Not critical at all, your comments were very pleasing at the time & now, but she is a good 11kg less in weight than a top male show dog, surely this is too much difference?

Hopefully since those photo's , Molly has put on a couple of kg's.

Molly is too busy right now to go near a show ring but maybe later in the year I'll do as you say and give it a try.

chocymolly.

It should be the whole dog, conformation and movement.....movement means how the dogs are evenly based to the ground, holding topline, good reach of neck, correct stride etc etc... not how the dog roll from side to side and literally pound the ground....

as for a massive difference in weight...Tia is a good old fashioned very tall bitch  (bordeline top heightwise, but gets away with it (sometimes)   She weighs a whopping 38kg....BUT she works like a little trojan and ALL her weight is solid muscle....when she moves her muscle possitively ripple with taughtness....  Ellie on the otherhand, was a more delicate midheight range bitch and at only 14months when she died, had not reached her potential, (I prefer my dogs to come on slowly and reach maturity around 2 maybe even 3years....Ellie was getting there and at her penultimate show, she beat Tia into 3rd place, she was just over 10kg lighter, , but I moved her better than Tia moved (Tia had a handler that had not worked with her before) ..........Sooo many Labrador puppies now are coming out into the ring for the 1st time looking all the world like fully mature adults....

At a show today, I took my pups (4.5months) along for a couple of unbiased assessments....and was told to watch their height, too tall,,,,and get some weight on them....ahem, they have already reached 20kg+....my weight comes with well formed muscle.....not fat :)  OK they may not be the 'perfect Lab' for todays showring, but they come very close to their ancestors of 40 years ago ;)  and thats how I like them, and I will persist in the showring....Oh and yes, they will work too :D

I know what you mean Kayc - I have a similar problem with my Yankee. Don't get me wrong, I think the show type Yankee is utterly gorgeous with that fantastic coat - but it doesn't really go with the breed standard saying 'feathering not so excessive as to hide body lines or impede function as a sporting dog', does it? My boy is no good in the ring today as he hasn't got that beautiful coat - but he looks a lot like the champions from the 40s and 50s. I suppose all breeds will change over time in spite of the standards though.

I feel that in each of the disciplines (show & work) the labs are going too extreme.  For example some show lines are fat (chunky) with huge heads and some working lines are too whippety looking.  Surely we should be striving for dual purpose and a good compromise of both types.  I have also heard of some cases of entropion amongst the show lines and would presume that this happens where the heads are big and result in droopy eyelids.  I personnally would steer towards the slim working type as I feel they are healthier dogs.  If you look through the breeds supplement it tends to be the show type that have the higher hip scores although I do realised one shouldn't generalise from this and also temperament is one of the main requirements in a lab, where I am sure both types have equally good and bad examples.
Lorna

We had a very similar thing - our boy is our first lab and we had a very specific idea of the 'shape' we wanted. My friend had 2 beautiful old Cornlands boys and they are tall and lovely, with what we thought of as a 'proper lab head'! We had such a hard time finding him, as all of the working lab parents we saw had pointy muzzles and all of the show lines were bruisers!

In the end our boy came from a show breeder with beautiful labs, but she was also saying that she was getting warned that they were getting too tall, and she too kept some of the weight off them as she didn't like the way it was going.

Is the breed standard different in the UK than it is in Canada?  I got the following off a Canadian website and this is the breed standard here -

Height/Weight: Dogs will stand from 22.5-24.5 in (57-62 cm) at the shoulder and weigh 60-75 lb (27-34 kg). Females are slightly smaller at 21.5-23.5 in (55-60 cm) and 55-70 lb (25-31.5 kg).

My girl is from bench lines (show), weighs usually around 55 pounds but often drops to 54 or so, after a winter of cross country skiing.  We are not sure how tall she is because she is timid and does not like strange people touching her so whenever she got measured for agility she cowered and probably came out a little lower than she should have, around 20 inches,   Jet fits in our canoe really well because of her small size but she seems to expand when she's lying on our bed, with us.:rolleyes:

Jet is also slightly built and I find many people ask if she even is a Lab because, I guess, they are used to seeing such big ones.  I met a lady who said her dog was 140 lbs (64 kg).  She didn't have him with her at the time, but my gosh, what a huge dog.

The UK standard is certainly different. Sizewise, our dogs should be 22 - 22½ inches and bitches 21½ - 22 inches tall, so noticeably shorter than yours. We don't have a recommended weight, but even the dog in the picture on the KC standard link is noticeably bulkier than Knaith Banjo. Some look even bigger. :(

Even within the breed standard I guess things change according to current thinking and fashion.  Hopefully the fashion for these bulkier labs is changing.