Hi again,
We started clicker training with our now 5-month old whippet cross, Millie, before Christmas and have been going weekly. Doing fairly well, though puppy goes hyper in class with all the distractions! Whereas she used to sit really quite well and obediently with hand and/or voice command several weeks ago (for a treat), she is now refusing to sit at all without one. Instead of sitting, when I give the command (voice or hand) she just wanders off completely disinterested. She is a bit better at home (where there are fewer distractions) with the sit, but not as good as before. I think it seemed to start after we began with the sit and stay command (she was sitting well when we progressed to this).

Now, the trainer says I should have started to phase out the treats earlier on in the training, but I have to say, I did not do this (since at the time, I didn't realise I had to - maybe I missed the instruction in class at the time - too distracted trying to keep Millie under control!!). So I'm wondering what to do now? She's a very food-oriented pup and very bright and energetic. Do I go back to square one, clicking and treating each time for the sit, then starting to phase out? And leave sit and stay for a while? I feel a bit confused about this! Maybe it's a rebellious phase she's going through... would this happen at 5 months?

Also, at 5 months, I'd be really interested to know what sort of level of training can be reached with the clicker, since the pup is still very young, really? Maybe my expectations are too high - not sure!!

Thanks everyone for your input!
Sarah

It's very possible she's turning into a teenager before your very eyes, yes, that should be considered.  Has your trainer told you *how* to wean her off the treats?

I'd use a 'jackpot' system of rewards, so that the very best (quickest?) responses are the ones that get the treats, and make the treat a good one, maybe several small pieces of an every day treat, or a different higher value treat than those which you normally use.  I'd also try and restrict her movement, perhaps by having a foot on the lead so she can't wander off, as the more she does it, the more she'll learn she can :(

teasel, I'm not sure what is happening from what you describe - is she just not sitting at all and ignoring you?

Are your treats tasty enough?  Is she hungry enough before class?

Can you lure a sit with food?  I'd suggest  - say sit - if she doesn't respond, get a treat on her nose and lure the sit, then click and release treat.  Repeat a couple more times, then do exactly the same thing but with no food in your hand - click and get food and deliver it.  Then you'll have her sitting on a hand signal.  Keep saying SIT BEFORE you give the hand signal, and eventually she will sit just for the word.

It's quite normal for training to go backwards sometimes, before it goes forwards again - don't worry too much about it, just go back to the level you need to go back to, to keep getting success. 

"Whereas she used to sit really quite well and obediently with hand and/or voice command several weeks ago (for a treat), she is now refusing to sit at all without one."

I am confused do you mean she will not sit without a command or without a treat?

There is no reason to phase out treats during training, I clicker training and my dogs ALWAYS get a treat (food for one, ball for the other) during training.  To click and NOT treat is a betrayal to the dog.  the click signifies  3 things, a) you got it right b) it is "over" and c) your primary reinforcer is on its way.

You never fade the primary reinforcer you just increase the duration of the behaviour(s) so for example the dog, if it was in competition, would do a number of behaviours for quite a long time but know that it gets reinforced with food at some point.

If you have clicked and not treated then you have now taught your dog that you do not fulfil your promises and will then cease to trust what it has already learned............

Not sure if that helps