We have had our 12 week old puppy for just over a week (some of you may have seen the other conversation about her health....we're seeing the vet again tomorrow). Anyway, we are trying to crate train her but with limited success.  She sleeps in it contentedly overnight (and has actually stayed pretty clean all night which is great) but we can't get her to use it in the day. We feed her in there and have toys in there but the only time she will stay in there is if she is asleep and we sneak her in there!  if she is awake she just barks and whines incessantly...she did it for half an hour this morning without break.  Trouble is that we have an older dog who she seems to worship and she hates to be separated.  But there are times when we need to leave her crated for a short time...just to take the other dog out for a walk for example.  Does anyone have any advice on how we can get her to accept some time in her crate quietly?

Hi

You're right that it's a good idea for her to learn to settle on her own.  It's important for puppies to learn to be independent - away from other dogs and other people.

You should just leave her in there, whining and ignore her - half an hour isn't much compared to some!!  Eventually she will be quiet.  When she's been quiet for a couple of minutes, you can go to her then and quietly open the door. 

Gradually you'll find that the amount of time she whines for gets less and less, but sometimes it's hard to believe that when you've got a little puppy!

Here are some links on crate training which I think are useful:

http://www.ddfl.org/behavior/crate-train.pdf

http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/spt/SPT_Crate_Training_Info.htm

My puppy has been crate trained since I got him as have all my other pups. Do you cover it to make it dark and also when you go out leave a radio on, a chatty programme is best. Good Luck. Also leave a jumper that you have been wearing in with her.

I cover it at night but stopped doing that in the daytime as I thought she might be happier if she could see what was going on.  Radio is always playing music - maybe talk would be better.  Will try the jumper - thanks!  How long do we leave her crying/barking before we rescue her?!

I would easily leave her there for any amount of time making noise.  I think I once had one that took about 3 hours.  Then shut up and went to sleep.  The next time it was 45 minutes.  The next time 30 minutes, then 15 minutes, and now is full grown and just trots into the crate willingly and never makes a sound.

Expect some noise every time you leave her in there and then you won't be disappointed when she does make noise, because you'll be expecting it. 

I have mixed feelings about using the radio.  The problem is that something quite frightening to the dog might come on the radio - there are all kinds of silly noises on the radio and a dog might find it quite the opposite of reassuring.  I don't use the radio with mine and have never had any problems. 

The jumper is a good idea.  Do you have something which smells of her litter or where she came from?  A toy or bedding or anything?  If so, put that in there.

If it doesn't improve in the next few days, you might want to buy a DAP diffuser, which you can purchase from the vet or online.  They plug into a socket and give off reassuring pheromones which are chemically the same phermones as a bitch gives off when nursing a litter.  It costs about £20 and lasts for a month:  http://www.petremedies.co.uk/product.asp?P_ID=155&strPageHistory=search&strKeywords=DAP&numPageStartPosition=1&strSearchCriteria=any&PT_ID=all

After the first night (during which I slept quite near by, which meant we all got some sleep!), we thought we'd see if Roxy (A Golden - also 12 weeks) would settle in her crate last night . She barked and winged for about 40 minutes and then settled - I'm so glad we resisted. When she eventually was quiet, neither my partner or I would say anything or move. We just kept on looking at each other frightended to death she'd wake up again lol!!

We got up every 2 hours after that to take her to the loo and each time on the way back in she positively ran back to her crate and curled up to go back to sleep. She was clean last night, and for a second night that has to be something pretty special. I'm by no means an expert, but she (after just two days) loves it in there - she has a big safe cuddly dog toy (same colour as her) to snuggle up to, her Kong and even in the day she sits in there. *beaming with undulating pride*

Anyway, I didn't mean to go on about mine, just wanted to share some 1st night experiences.

Try not to think of it as somewhere to 'rescue' her from. Crates give dogs a lot of security (and give you peace of mind) so you are actually doing her a favour getting her used to it. Some dogs have amazing powers of persuasion and can bark for hours - if you are able, just let her cry it out. As said above as soon as she is quiet go and let her out - wait until she is quiet though or else she will think she is being rewarded for crying and will do it all the more!! Keep if fun with lots of treats and toys in there. Also do something to tire her out like training or a play session just before you put her in the crate so she is more likely to settle down.
Just keep up the good work and you will soon see a difference! :)

Thanks for all the helpful advice....I'm obviously not being strong enough....it's so hard to hear her crying and not go and comfort her.  I'd like to be able to crate her for an hour or so a couple of times a day - do you think that is reasonable?  She seems quite happy in it overnight (although admittedly she is asleep!) but it would be great if she could use it in the day as well.

Yes, definitely.  You should get her used to being in the crate when you are around the house, because it's good for developing her independence if she is prevented from following you around everywhere.

Also you should be crating her and beginning to leave her alone in the house.  Begin with very short periods of time (a few seconds) and then come back in again.  Go for a 5 min walk and back in again.  Gradually build this up - go for a walk round the block and back in again.  You should be gradually extending the amount of time she is happy being left alone for.  Never go back into the house if you can hear her making noise, and never let her out when she's making noise.  That just rewards the noise, and you will get more of it next time, not less!

   I agree with onetwothree, however i left my pup for   short periods  and didn't leave her   crying too much.  I   would go to her as soon as she stopped crying and let her out, ideally if you feed them in there, put them in there when   they are tired, etc  they don't really cry... :)

Lindsay
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I'll try what you suggest onetwothree - thanks.  However, one more question - what do we do about our older dog?  The puppy is besotted with her and wants to follow her everwhere.  Should we take her out with us and get the puppy used to being on her own, or should we also try leaving them both in the house together (the puppy would be crated but the older one wouldn't be)

Definitely take her out with you and get the puppy used to being totally on her own.  Afterall, you will sometimes want to do something with one dog and not the other - take one to the vets, as just one example - they need to be independent and happy on their own.

But at times when we need to leave them both at home, should we put them in different rooms?  The older dog has never been crated and has always had the run of the house so I am reluctant to shut her away - but if she is running around while the pup is in the crate it's going to send the pup mad!

Yes, put them in different rooms - preferably more than one room apart from each other (if your house is big enough). 

The pup is going to have to get used to being crated under all circumstances.  If you leave them together then you're not really providing any alone-training for your pup. And with some dogs, having another dog in the room which is free is even worse (more frustrating) than being in a room on their own.

Right - will start a campaign - thank you!

Thats why I always cover the crate. I have two other dogs that are left in the same room as the crate and the pup is in there when I go out and at all times that he sleeps during the day. Never have had problems with this. The radio is always on in the kitchen and the tv is on in the room that the crate is in. Just persevere and all will come right in the end.:-)

i have a 4month old bulldog who i have had since he was 7weeks he has a crate he slept in it great for 1st week then i went a full month with sleepless nights i tryed everything i even bought him a plug in from the vets but nothing worked he now sleeps at the bttom of my bed but still i needed him in it when i went out ect i would be heart broken leaving him he would cry sooo bad hit his head against the sides ect recently i was told about using a kong which if you dont know what one is its a rubber toy which you put food or treats in the dog job is to receive the treats keep its mind off things.Anyway i bought the kong let my pup have it a few times in the room his crate is to let him get to know it and whats in it ect now i put him in his crate with his kong and there is  no noise well not that i no of give it ago see if it helps your pup.good luck

Hi, have been reading all your crate training experiences with interest.  I am planning on keeping one of the puppies from our litter and want to crate train.  I know that you mentioned keeping dogs separate but would this still apply with mum and pup?  Any advice would be appreciated.

Yes, it would apply even more with mum and pup because they are likely to already have a bond established.