Why do so many people on here , have to be so critical towards people who use this info exchange to get help in often difficult , doggy situations ? there areso many posts where upon reading them , i can feel the person who posted , must feel like they are being "stoned" , & wish they had never posted the question in the first place !! i recently posted on the "searching " section, hoping someone on here may know of a the availibility of a mini wire dachshund puppy, the first reply was someone who had checked out my history on CD & said " dont you breed them yourself "? (i breed mini smooth ! )   "im suprised you havnt gone to your breed club ? ( did check wire club ) & all wanted was to increase my chances of finding a puppy !! but i felt like i was under suspicion !!! why not just give a helpful reply, and drop the criticism, like i said, let he without sin........................
:rolleyes:
Caron

It depends if you see it as advice or criticisim, I don't believe there are many on here who set out to be critical. Advising you to contact the breed club sounds sensible advice to me, remember members can not advertise/sell litters on the forum.
Good luck with your search

hi Liberty, i was just reading the post " pregnent older bitch" and i really felt for the poster, it triggered my response !! what do others think ?

I hadn't bothered to read that thread until just now...however...it *seems* that the stud dog wasn't hip scored, the bitch is older than KC guidelines permit ....possibly one of the dogs is overheight and nervous.....

Most members here feel it their duty almost to advise people to follow the KC guidelines with regards to breeding. Also, most breed clubs have a code of ethics or breeding criteria of their own.

IF someone comes on here and has not followed those rules, members try to help and guide them by telling them what they are. IF people come on here for advice and then ignore the advice given ...then come back again for MORE advice, they will often get short shrift.

The KC guidelines for breeding are there for a purpose ...to protect the dogs. Not everyone has heard of them and are completely ignorant ..those people are given help and advice ...accidents DO happen. However, when members read of something that could endanger the health of a bitch they are, naturally, worried and upset.

If anyone asks for advice, there is no guarantee that they will like the advice they get ;)

As I am one of those people who has given what the poster obviously feels is negative advice, I don't feel the need to justify myself, but I would say this:

1.    The poster has, by her own posts, got a rather unpredictable young (9 or 10 month old) male - and how many males at that age are not? - they all can be.    She also has a pregnant bitch (planned breeding).

2.     Just before Christmas, she lost another bitch, suddenly to illness, which devastated her (as it would any of us).

3.     The bitch in question - which may or not be pregnant is 8 years of age - 64 in human terms (even older than me ).

My concerns are threefold:-

(1)    The young male is too young to be hipscored - what if his hips are way out, when he is eventually done.

(2)    How will she cope with 2 litters, 2 or 3 weeks apart in age, in keeping them and bitches separate.

(3)    My concerns about the health impacts on the older bitch - she could die, the puppies could die - how would the poster cope?

In all the circumstances, I know I wouldn't be able to cope, and I advised (and still would advise) spaying - even at this late stage of a pregnancy.

Of course, it may be a phantom pregnancy, and all the agonising may be totally unnecessary.   Let's hope so.

Of course what I posted is not what anyone would want to here.   It's not the sort of post that I want to post.   But, in my view, it is a valid point.   

If we start going "all fluffy" - then the Board will not be staying true to its values, imo.  Its called Champdogs, dedicated to the breeding and improving the breeding of - what it says - Champdogs!

Anyone wanting other reassurances could possibly set up a board called Lotsapuppies - or something similar if that's what floats their boats.

Margot

Well ...I tried to be a bit *fluffier* in my reply ...but Margot has hit the nail squarely on the head in her reply :p :p

I think you have it in a nutshell Margot :D

Posted same time as Mel :)

I've got my GOW hat on today ;)

Margot

Vote Margot for PM :D.......*move over Tony* ;)

You know misstyko. Thats just what I thought Him without sin...
I have seen many posts on here when I have felt for the poster. Ive always thought why that comment.
In actual fact the old way of comparing dog to human life is not x by 7 thats just old wifes tale. A bigger age in early years then it slows down.
I know many dogs that reach 15 but not many humans get to over 100. Also how many children get their first period before thay start school.

I totally agree that the method of apply 7 human years to 1 dog year just does not work and never do it myself but nevertheless there is an age were dogs are clearly no longer in the peak of fitness required for responsible breeding and that age has been determined by the KC as 8 years of age.  This age is generally, at least, supported by the majority of breed clubs if not set a little lower for certain breeds that do not age as well as the average so there really should be no aguement with something that is held by such a large concensus.

As I'm the poster who asked whether you bred them - I asked that because I thought you did! It was a genuine question - which some people seem very keen to assume is criticism. :rolleyes:

I suggested you go through the breed clubs - the obvious place to find breeders - and first you said that you "didn't go to clubs" then later said that you'd done that. Obviously my crystal ball was having an off-day! ;) :D

In a nutshell, the advice to go via the breed clubs was a helpful reply, and not criticism at all. Why so quick to assume it was?

Wow - what it must be like to spend hours on champdogs and be a complete expert and know everything about everything - oh i'm sure some must aspire to reach such a high accolade! :rolleyes:

I'm not sure where that came from, but is it actually helpful or constructive? :rolleyes:

Oh dear oh dear.....

Have you ever heard the old adage, 'live and learn'? We ALL hope to live and learn ...I have learnt an enormous amount since joining CD. Why bother being here if you are going to be like that? Seriously? I can't see why you would join a board that offers advice if, when reading peoples advice you come out with something as infantile as that

I never understand it either :rolleyes:  I tend to do with the thought 99% of those that don't like it didn't hear what the really wanted to hear even if it was the truth and the right advice.

Marmite - some of us who have been members of Champdogs for more than a week (as you have) learn, that in order to be able to answer questions from posters, one has to look back at previous posts made by the poster - they will often fill in the missing links in a query.

Some of us do have years of experience too - sorry if that is now a thought to be a negative point :rolleyes:

I know that in today's world "dumbing down" is the aim - well I for one am glad that the lowest common denominator is not my aim.

Margot

well in my feeble week that i have spent on here (granted that i read the post for months before just never bothered joining) it seems that when someone asks for advice or has a question people are 'oh so happy' to jump down their throats at them and tell them exactly what they think before any such advice is given.  You're almost on trial if you post.  It is just nice to remember that yes- your many many many years of experience may give yourself the illusion that you can talk down to people - but there is certainly a manner in which constructive advice can be given - and that is what very often seems missing - the manner in which it is given.  In addition, many of you being archaic breeders maybe new approaches to various issues could be right even if not 'entrenched' in your years of experience!?! - Just a thought!

Please all, the charm of CD is the personalitys peeping through with the advise offered and long may it continue.
All posters are appreciated, the various ways of coming over through cyberspace show that as in eyeball contact ever person is different, with differing perspectives and we can read all and glean what we like. I for one love the way it works.

What a nice post poloaussie :)

archaic breeders

If, by that term, you mean breeding dogs to the KC standard, then I, for one, am happy to be one!

I do keep up with technology and new ideas and I do give constructive advice.   It might not be what people want to hear - but that is not my problem.

New approaches to various issues - I'm always open to new approaches - but if by that it means embracing designer breeds, embracing sloppy ideals, then I don't.

Lokis mum, please can I join your Archaic Breeders Society?
I have been breeding dogs for over 20 years, in the first instance under the guidance of my bitch's experienced breeder, always aiming to breed to the breed standard and within the guidelines of The Kennel Club.
I promise to do my best to maintain and encourage ethical breeding practice and to help anyone who wishes to follow that path.
As an ex-veterinary nurse and having seen the problems presented in the surgery by badly bred puppies and having done my best to support owners of ill bred dogs in my grooming parlour for over 16 years, I will not knowingly encourage the production of puppies from dogs and bitches who have not been health checked for their breed defects and have not been successful in their owners' chosen fields, whether that be in the showring, working, obedience or agility.
Is that OK??  Can I join your club - please?? :rolleyes:

Me too   Or did they mean arcane?  Part of a coven then?

And me - please (just to show I have archaic manners too )

Hi Val,
They are pressing your buttons!!! There are some very experienced breeders on here
that can help, with an awfull lot of knowledge. They can advise! you do not have to listern!!
They have in the past helped me an awfull lot. YES!! there are a few who get bad P.M.T.
or out the wrong side of bed. Who take it out on you, and attack your point of view.
That is the law of average's isn't it? I myself can't always say things sweet on here, straight to the point!
But! not ment to affend. A lot of the old members do not post anymore, I hope it isn't the same reason.
I wouldn't have beleved where some Breeders were coming from! But! have you seen how many dogs
end up not wanted, or ill treated? Just check the web! that's the ones advertised.
everyone on here is dog lovers. and if we are honest, there is no room for crosses or bad temprement
or ill dogs, if a lot of resonable breed dogs end up homeless, what chance is it for the others a!
What will happen if anythink happends to the older bitch in welp! it will break the owners heart,
what about the pups! what will happen to them. They are only saying, not to do it again, the
gamble is to big!
Regards
Denese

Marmite - the Champdogs forum is NOT populated by 'professional' advisers paid by Champdogs. It is full of dog lovers who wish to exchange their experiences (old and new) with others. Nobody claims to know everything. There are very few rights and wrongs to owning/breeding dogs - merely 'best practice' as perceived by a majority. Anybody who ventures onto ANY Internet forum should do so with their eyes wide open and their body-armour on, as no-one knows who is reading the fora and what answers may be given to any question. Just as you have a right to make critical posts - so does anyone else ! As in Caveat Emptor - Poster Beware !

Daisy

As a relatively new dog owner (but brought up with them), I for one am very grateful that there are people willing to give freely of their time to assist the likes of me along the route to responsible dog ownership. I'm sure my healthy, happy dogs would like to express their gratitude too ;)

When I have posted queries in the past, I have done so because I genuinely need advice or reassurance and that is what I have got. If I don't like what i read, that's tough on me but I know it's good advice and I'd be a fool to ignore it. Problems arise when people ask for advice and then ignore it because it wasn't what they wanted to hear. Why ask in the first place if you are not prepared to consider every point of view

Long may the straight-talking, no-messing, does-exactly-what-it-says-on-the-tin CHAMPDOGS continue!

One of the best things about this forum is its total lack of "kittens and embroidery" fluffy stuff. Which means that when you ask for advice you'll get advice instead of a string of txt spk, smileys and self-congratulation! Now I realise that straight talking can come across rather brusquely and I also realise that the internet can be the quickest route to misunderstandings precisely because we aren't talking face to face with each other but for all that I can honestly say, that in the 6 months or so I've been a member of this place, nobody has ever done other than answer the questions I've asked in a helpful and straightforward manner. I also find the search facility extremely useful because more often than not the topic you want advice on has already been covered fairly comprehensively. And if it hasn't you can then refine your queries accordingly.

There's a deal of expertise on here (none of which I possess!) and it's available to anyone prepared to listen. If, on the other hand you merely want confirmation that you are doing the right thing and aren't prepared to accept that there may be another side to the debate then there's a very real chance that, no matter how many times you ask the same question, you'll get an answer you didn't want to hear. And the more times you ask the same question, the more likelihood that the replies will get ever so slightly tetchy on the simple principle that if you didn't want to take note of the answer then it would have been better not ask the flipping question in the first place! Let alone ask it repeatedly!

We'd better be careful - we might be accused of starting another designer breed - are we breeding Archaics or Arcanes :D :D :D

Margot

Well a cross of the two of course, can't be having pure ones

Roz, loved your post.  You may not have expertise but you do have experience and it's that which we share freely on here.

As time goes on and you post/read more frequently we get to understand that others share our experience and that leads to expertise in a way.

Hope that makes sense.

PS Full of sin here so waited a while before casting a stone!!

PPS I love the sensible and reliable advise that can be gleaned from the archaic ones!  Where would we be without them??!

How about Arcane Coarse Oh?

Arcane (the breeders)
Coarse (our language when asked where the latest designer breed puppy can be got from)
Oh (what people say when they finally get why some of the replies are not saying what they wanted to hear).

Ow! Stop throwing stuff! :D

Here, here!

Jeangenie,i didnt start this post to argue about what you said to me personally !! its just the way you said it , or maybe the way i took it !! i dont go to a breed club, but i did visit the wire dachsie breed club site as well as posting on the "searching" topic on here, but this is the kind of response i mean, it sort of felt like you were trying to "catch me out " if this wasnt the case, i apologise for my snappy response. but this does seem to happen a lot , advise & opinions are what are asked for , that is what most get,  but i dont agree with the clicky group judging that does happen accasionally, IMO

Oh ...the *cliquey* group comment :rolleyes: I wondered how long that one would take :p :p

If you join ANY group .....in RL or on the web ...anywhere that people share the same ideals, values and commitments, you can accuse them of being cliquey

Bored now ...

As the vast majority of people on here live many miles from the next person, have probably only met in person, on the odd occasion, a few of the others (I've only met one member, once) - the only way it could possibly be called cliquey is that they agree with many other members on lots of issues :) What is wrong with that ?? It's usually called a consensus :)

Daisy

This is the sort of post i mean !! you are picking on my choice of phrase to call in the people you know to try to make me feel  as if my opinion is wrong !!!

For goodness sake - I'm a very individual person and make my own decisions when to post. If I disagree with Melody (or others) at any point, I'd have no problem with saying so. If you are certain of your point, then why be so defensive ? I've had numerous disagreements with people on this board and I'm still here (I can still have very friendly discussions with people that I've criticised in the past ;) )

If you think that you have a valid point, then stand up for your views :)

Daisy

sorry Daisy, i was replying to melodysk not you ....

HOW did I call anyone in???

Baffled now ......:rolleyes:

Misstyko - you are as entitled to your opinion as anyone else.   This is supposed to be an EXCHANGE OF VIEWS forum - which is what we do.  You do not have to embrace others' views - but neither do we have to embrace yours.

This is getting too boring for words now.

ok , i will go now because i didnt get up this morning on the wrong side of the bed !! i just read yet another set of replies for a genuine poster that seemed more judgemental than helpful at times . i will stick to MO as you stick to yours ,
regards to you all
have a good day
Caron ( owner of mini SMOOTH dachsies !!! lol !! ) xx

Can I say something PLEASE....

I dont have a dog, however, when I came on these boards and asked questions about the possibility of having a dog, I was offered, constructive advice, some that I did not want to hear..ie  should not leave a dog for too long while your at work ect, because I WANTED a dog. However advice was offered.

It seems to me, and I am no expert at all in any way shape or form, that if you ask advice you will get it, you may not like the response, you may not agree to the response, you can ignore the reply  because thats what asking for advice is all about.  You can not expect to ask opinions of people on a site like this, where, views can differ greatly without getting some opinions that you do not like

There I said it.

No i'll get me coat:rolleyes:

Tanya

:)

hi Tanya, its not the " advice " that i feel is wrong ,  cos thats what the person is asking for,  its the uneeded comments . IMHO .

You mean those points that aren't adding to the argument/discussion, just criticising the poster? :)

such as your comments?

Enough.   The sun is shining - I'm going to walk my dogs :D

>You mean those points that aren't adding to the argument/discussion, just criticising the poster?

such as your comments?

Ahhh the small calm voice of reason :)

As has been said before, I think the original poster was trying to say it's not the advice that's given that gets taken the wrong way - it's the comments which are intended to be a jibe or otherwise sarcastic which have been causing offence. 
I have noticed a leaning towards double standards sometimes - whether meant or not - we've been asked not to blaspheme, for instance,  because it causes offence - most people go along with that - they respect other people's views.  But if someone quite nicely states that snide comments which are of no use whatsoever (such as Bored now just as an example) are causing offence then it becomes their problem and they have to like it or lump it?  Do you not see what the person is trying to say?
I'm the first to admit that I tend to put my foot in things way too frequently - I act or say things without thinking them through - but the more I see things as an outsider the more I do realise how things come across and how easily they can cause offence.   Instead of getting the 'ump about things and making people out to be not adhering to the advice given, why not sit back and try to see what they're really saying?
Just my opinion :)
Debs

>why not sit back and try to see what they're really saying?

Wouldn't it be nice if everyone did that instead of casting accusations of cliqueiness? (A comment not directed at anyone in particular, just in general.)

Ah but JG people are very good at identifying failings in others, if not in themselves; quick to accuse people of giving offence rather than admitting they have taken it.

One cannot expect to go through life with causing offence, intentioned or otherwise, likewise one cannot reasonably expect ANYONE to agree with SOMEONE on EVERYTHING; if that were the case, this board would be contain much less content that it does! :D

If one wants advice without comment/opinion/questions etc then perhaps a book rather than a forum is the answer; the former does not answer back, argue or give any other viewpoint other than the author's, generally speaking; what is more it costs you money, where here one is offered amusement, knowledge, expertise as well as being challenged, questioned and teased completely free of charge! ;)

The point of forums is just that to see other points, rather than expecting everyone to reflect those that the member/reader holds..........