We picked up our new puppy 6 days ago.  She is a rescue puppy, now 12 weeks old, half Springer and half Lab and is absolutely gorgeous!  We already have a 3 year old bitch who we got as a rescue dog a year ago and getting a puppy now has made us realise just how perfect the older one was!  We have never had to deal with house training before and are finding it really hard work.  We're following all the advice we've read here and in books but however often we take her out we still find that she will randomly pee and poo in the house without any warning several times a day (as well as going outside).  Can someone give me an idea about how long it should be before she starts to let us know she wants to go outside?  I know we're probably being impatient but it would be good to get some idea of timing.  Also, can anyone advise on the best sort of surface to use as a toilet area outside.  They have been going on a grassy area but it is really hard to pick up poo from the grass and we were wondering whether soil or sand or even a hard surface would be better? 

be militant- if he/she is still peein/pooing inside-then make trips out more frequent- if you were going out every hour- now go out every half hour, drill it in to him/her that outside is place to go!
it takes time- got our pup at 4 months old and she had no training previously- took us a month at most to get her very well trained and she learnt to sit at back door- if we didnt notice her she'd give a little moan, (ie if im cooking)

be patient- have a sense of humour about it or else you'll get really het up about it- deep breath! :)

Thanks for the helpful reply.  We're now taking her out every half an hour.  We've got a new rather worrying problem now though.  Her diarroeah is getting worse so she has pooed about 7 times today and just now we think we noticed blood in it.  We'll call the vet first thing in the morning but we're really worried.  Has anyone any idea what it might be?  She is due for her second jab on Monday.

Hi

Please don't over-react.  Blood in dog faeces is no where near as much of a worrying sign as if you found it in, say, a child's faeces.

How long has the diahorrea been happening for?  When did it start? 

I don't think you need to take her to the vet just yet, if she's due her 1st jab on Monday.

Feed her chicken and rice for a few days until her poo firms up again.  Runny poos, often with blood or mucous in, are a common thing with pups. 

Have you got a training class sorted out for when her jabs are complete?

Thanks onetwothree - it's good to know that it isn't necessarily too serious.....we were just looking things up on the internet and convincing ourselves she was really poorly.  She's had the diarrhoea for about 2.5 days now....she seems absolutely fine in herself and is eating fine, but she has lost some weight.  The vet is very helpful so I think we might take her down there tomorrow for peace of mind.  We've had her on dry food only until now - would it not upset her tummy more to change now?  We're looking for a training class but haven't managed to find one in Guildford yet...another trawl of the web required!

There is an excellent trainer in the Guildford area:

http://www.dogtrain.co.uk/

If you click on "Behaviour" in this link, you will see a list of trainers.  The main trainer who runs this site (Sarah Whitehead) is based in Berkshire, but she has a network of trainers in the nearby areas, including Guildford, which are listed under "Behaviour" on this site.

She is a clicker trainer and entirely reward based and I'd really recommend her.

Funnily enough, we just came across that site on the web!  It's always good to have a recommendation though...thanks.  We'll give them a call tomorrow. 

i went to puppy classes run by sarah whitehead and mut say she  was brillent she made things easy to understand and was very helpfull with any problem.(we went to classes at chobham rspca)

Forgot to say -

Re your pup's diahorrea - when was she last wormed?  It's always a good idea to worm when this happens with pups - my last one had exactly the same thing and was doing huge mucousy bloody poos, and we went through all kinds of expensive tests (like a poo sample analysis) at the vets.  Then I wormed her and it stopped immediately. 

She was wormed at the rescue centre about a fortnight ago so hopefully that shouldn't be the problem but we'll go through all that with the vet tomorrow.  We just weighed her out of interest and found that she has gone down from 4.2 kilos a few days ago to 3.8 today....and she is looking thiner, poor thing.  I'm beginning to think we may not be feeding her enough - and what we are feeding her is going straight through.  Oh to see a good solid poo and a fat tummy again!

Don't worry, I know what you mean.  We got a bit poo obsessed with ours at that age!!!!

Hello again onetwothree.  I don't know if you've read the most recent post I've put here, but I wondered how long it took for the problem to stop when you wormed your puppy?  We suspect she probably has got worms...there are what look like white egg type things in her poo....but she was wormed again on Friday and no improvement so far

Hi Feebee

What are you worming her with, which wormer?

You see, not all wormers work against all worms.  I'd advise you not to use the pet shop wormers which you can buy over the counter, and only to use a wormer from the vet (which you can also buy online).  The 3 main vet prescribed wormers are Drontal +, Panacur and Milbemax.

My preference from these 3 is Drontal +, because it kills the widest range of worms (roundworms, both types of tapeworm, hookworms and whip worms I believe).  Panacur only kills 1 type of tapeworm but is also effective against lung worm (which is v rare so don't worry about that for now). 

If you haven't used Drontal +, I would really recommend it because I believe it's the most comprehensive: <a class='url' href='http://www.petvetcare.co.uk/acatalog/Drontal_Wormers.html'>http://www.petvetcare.co.uk/acatalog/Drontal_Wormers.html</a>

There is more info at: www.stopwormsdead.co.uk

When I wormed mine, it stopped almost immediately - the next day really.  So maybe the wormer you are using is not effective against them.

Panacur is also effctive against giardia, amajor cause of prolonged direhoea, but it is given over a longer period then. 

The vet gave us Panacur.  I think she was wormed for all the other types by the rescue home about 3 weeks ago, but we'll ask the vet about other options when we see her tomorrow.  She hasn't passed anything for about 6 hours now so obviously something is starting to happen....watch this space!

At 12 weeks old you should be taking her out as soon as she wakes, after a meal and after a period of play.

Put her on a light lead so she can't go off sniffing, stand still in the area you want her to go in, in other words don't let her pull you around to a different area.  As soon as she goes use a word like quickly, then as she progresses you can use this word as you take her out.

Surface doesn't matter as long as you are consistant.  Don't forget soil or sand will stick to her feet in wet weather.  I have always found a concrete area best as it is easy to clean.

At 12 weeks mine have been housetrained, barring the odd accident.  So as you have only just got her she has got used to having a wee in her kennel/run where she lived.  So expect it to take a bit longer then usual.

Good luck and enjoy :)

She's pretty good at going outside when we take her out - it's just that she goes inside as well!  I guess given she was in a kennel toileting everywhere a few days ago, it's going to take a while to sort itself out.  Mind you, it clearly isn't helped by having diarrhoea at the moment so we'll just have to be patient.  I think you're right about the hard surface as a toilet area - do you just hose it down regularly?

Dont forget young puppies do dehydrate really quickly, feed chicken and rice as mentioned but if no signs off getting better a vet trip will be necessary, better to be safe than sorry especially with young ones.

She's drinking loads...but with the result that she is peeing every half an hour!  I'll be a lot happier when we've seen the vet, I must admit.  Nobody told me puppy parenthood would be such a worry!

Feebee it's a pleasure as well though, get her checked for your own peace of mind

Hi feebee
You say she is drinking a lot your not feeding her any milk products are you? or giving treats

hope all goes well at the vets ..

Roni

No milk products - but we were using some treats to try and train her, but we stopped that yesterday as we were worried they might be too rich and causing the stomach upset.  Are there any treats out there suitable for training small puppies?

Just to let you know that the puppy has been to the vet today and she didn't seem too concerned.  She wormed her again as a precaution and has told us to feed her nothing but tuna (in brine) for the next day or two....apparently that should help sort out her tummy a bit (new one on me!).  She also said that the food we were giving her (which is what the rescue centre gave us) isn't very good as it is too rich, so we'll have to change that.  Can anyone recommend a really good complete dry food for puppies?

Hi feebee
I'm a bit concerned at your vet's advice to feed tuna in brine - I really wouldn't have thought that a pup with the risk of dehydration due to upset tum, should be given salty water.  I would strongly suggest that if you are going to feed tuna, to buy it in spring water.
I don't feed complete to mine, I'm sure someone will be along soon to suggest some.
Best wishes for your pup's recovery

Feebee

Here are some "good" dry foods:

www.wellbeloved.co.uk

www.ardengrange.co.uk

www.wafcol.co.uk  (I would only recommend the Salmon and Potato Wafcol flavour.)

We had exactly the same problem with our puppy 2 weeks ago (shes now 12 weeks ). It took some sorting out but eventually she was diagnosed with giardia and she's fine now. She went from 1.3kg to 1.1kg. The most important thing is to make sure that the puppy is taking fluids, check that the inner lids of her eye are moist and around her upper gums.  If she stops drinking then you will need to get her to a vet as they can get poorly quickly. I agree that tuna in brine doesn't sound a great choice, I cooked mine cod portions.

I must admit, the salty water asepct of the tuna in brine occured to me.....I 'll go and get some in spring water instead to play safe.  And maybe we'll treat her to a bit of cod for Sunday lunch!  Didn't know about the eyes and gums so I'll keep a check on that.  There's so much to learn!  Thank you for the food recommendations too ...we will get that sorted out asap.  Will let you know when she is on the mend.

I didn't know about the eye membranes until last week when I kept ringing the vet worrying about whether the puppy was dehydrating - he showed me what to check. Hope pup gets well soon cos I know what a worry it can be.

Just to let you know that Lucy has now been on a diet of tuna (in spring water) and white rice for a couple of days.  She is also taking Panacur.  She seems absolutely fine in herself - gobbles her food down, drinks OK, plays happily with our other dog and sleeps regularly.  However, she has lost weight and she is now passing just mucus and blood by the look of it.  She is no longer passing the piles of very loose stools but is regularly needing to squat down and pass small amounts of this yellowy blood stained mucus.  We have another appointment with the vet at 9.30am tomorrow and my husband tells me to wait until then, but I can't help but worry.

Have you got some Lectade or dioralyte in the house?

Added to water these will ensure that your dog replaces the electrolytes lost during diarrhoea and keep her hydrated.

This is more important than food if your dog is very ill......

ATB

I haven't - but we can get some tomorrow.  Is it Ok to use human/adult products like this for a young puppy?  Do you dilute it enormously?

my pup was exactly the same and like you, we got really worried. I guess either a course of Panacur (treats Giardia) or antibiotics ( for coronna type viruses) will sort her out. Trouble is unless you take poo samples for analysis , you won't know which it is ! Good luck at the vets.

Well the last thing she passed was at about midday today - a small amount of mucus stuff.  Nothing since then.  I guess that's a good sign.....probably the rice working at last!  Trouble is, we can't get a sample to take to the vet tomorrow now!  Thanks to everyone on this site who has been so helpful - it is very consoling to know there is such a large network of helpful and knowledgeable people out there.

Just to say I would not restrict puppy to peeing and pooping on just one surface as you may end up with a pooch who will/can not go any where else.  And that will be a trial when you are on walks, away from home, at the boarding kennel, etc.  I had a rescue who WOULD NOT eliminate while on the leash and my current lab has a hard time at the boarding kennel 'cause the runs are concrete and she is used to grass.  The kennel people are good though, and let her out to the grassy area often.

Thats a really good point....we're already noticing she always head for grass and no solid ground or earth...and she is reluctant to go while on the lead as well.  Will try and introduce some variety into lide for her!