Hi all,

I've been reading this board for a great deal of time now, and now I have a query I'm hoping some of you can help with.

I've been looking for a retriever pup in the Midlands now for about a month and in my normal daily search I've come across a 12 week old pup. She's going for £600, (which I understand is about right for a quality golden). The ad says she's from a licensed breeder, which has set some alarm bells ringing, since she's only 12 weeks old but he's not the breeder. I've called this guy and he says that he's had her for a week but now needs to sell her on - due to shift working etc. I asked him if he'd got in touch with her breeder, as I'm sure they'd have her back. (If she's from a reputable breeder - the breeders KC reg - and the guy does have all paperwork relating to parentage hip scores and BVA eye tests) She's from a lady from Shropshire and I was wondering what to do.  Do I go and look at the her or should I try and contact her original breeder - maybe the lady who sold her would want to try and get in touch and offer to take her back.

Any help or advice would be appreciated - I want to do the right thing here.

Kind Regards

Karen

i would never take on a 12 week pup, unless it was a rescue. you have missed out on all the important socialisation time and house training etc. what has this pup been doing between 8 and 12 weeks? considering how popular the breed is im surprised you havent been able to find a puppy, have you contacted the breed club secretary or anyone on the kennel club site with litters? i would steer clear of this pup, it sounds a bit dodgy to me.

Thanks for your replies - I think my suspicions have been confirmed.

With regards finding a pup, I'm limited to the distance I can travel since I don't own a car. I have a wonderful friend with a car who's willing to travel to help me find one but can't really expect him to travel more than an hour or so.

I've contacted the breed club and the lady advised the only person she knows is a lady in Stratford - which is a little too far away. I advised I was looking for a bitch and asked if she knew about any litters due for in next month and she was very brusque in saying that she couldn't say as 'who's to say there'll be any bitches.' I thought the idea was to get on a waiting list. I also asked if there were any planned litters which seemed to amuse her 'since there's no way we can predict when a bitch will come into season' - these were points well noted but I felt a bit foolish for asking despite thinking I'd asked the right questions.

Anyway, I the people I've called from the KC web site (Derby, Leics) all said they'd just sold the last one etc or don't have any girls left. (I'm quite keen on getting a girl as my partners had experience of retriever girls and they've been brilliant - although I respect that boys can be marvellous too!).

My search continues....

Sorry to hear of the response you received from the Breed Club :( I think your questions were very valid, I too prefer bitches, just my choice, which I feel am entitled too, so stick to your guns, and I hope you find the right little girl soon :D

I guess you have looked on the Champdogs Breeders section?

Dedlin, I think that it is a little unfair and inaccurate to say that one should never take on a 12 week old pup. In the rightcircumstances of course.

I got my first Briard at 16 weeks, he had been booked and paid for by somebody who asked the breeder to hang on to him as they were going away on holiday. Fortunately for me, it didn't materialise and he became mine. I had absolutely no problems with socialising or housetraining and he is probably one of the most laid back characters that I have owned, an absolute dream of a dog who takes everything in his stride.

There is no way under the OPs circumstances should they get involved as has now been made clear.

Good luck in your search Fluff, you appear to know all about the pitfalls of searching for a pup, I'm sure you'll find the right one eventually, even if it does take a little time. I have waited a considertable time in the past before getting the "right dog", but it was always worth the wait :)

hairypooch- i said I would never take on a 12 week pup- i didnt say NEVER to everybody else. it was my opinion

I had my first Cavalier at 14 weeks and he's one of the best dogs ever. :) The breeder had run him on to decide which to keep back for showing.

In my breed with low numbers bred, but also a corresponsidngly low demand it is rare that all pups will be homed by 8 weeks if it happens that an imbalance of sexes is born over a couple of litters or everyone wants dogs and there are none or vice versa.  Only needs one or two larger than average litters, for a few pups to be hanging about, conversely  some bitches missing meaning people are disspointed and have a longer wait.

I keep all my pups to 12 weeks. Its a giant breed that matures slowly mentally but grows very fast physically and I reckon the extra weeks with mum and the litter, and without disturbance, gives them the best possible start. I've never had a puppy that had a problem fitting into its new home or bonding with its owners. In fact a regular respose from owners who have other breeds is that they've never known a pup to settle in as well or easily or to be as confident.

That's not to say that I'd take on the pup that the OP is posting about. It should go back to the breeder and if he or she won't take it back, that's not a very good sign.

I agree with Dedlin.  Of course, taking on a 12 wk pup COULD work out.  But the risk of it NOT working out is much higher than if it were 8wks, and why take that risk?

If the circumstances are right OTT, why not take the risk on a pup that's older than 12 weeks?

Everybody and every pup is different. I've only ever had 2 dogs that were this age including my last bitch who was 7 weeks.  I can honestly, hand on heart, say, that she is no better socialised or housetrained etc, than any of my other "late comers" were. :)

Perhaps it's all down to putting in that little bit extra.

Sorry, no matter what the breeder said, personally I wouldn't trust them to have socialised the puppy as much as I would have myself, so I wouldn't want to take the risk.  I am very organised about socialisation and what the dog is exposed to, and keep lists and check lists, and there's no way I'd hand over control to a breeder when the breeder is obviously very keen to get the pup off their hands in the first place and more likely to be economical with the truth about what socialisation the pup has received.

I'm not sure that i would wan't to buy a pup from a breeder, if I didn't trust them to run it on to 12-16 weeks.

In my breed Havoc it is recommended by every breeder that I have spoken to that you take them from 7 weeks. 

Statistical research shows that, over the time that the breed has been in this Country, the pups thrive in their new home from such an age.

My breeders were one of the first to have our breed back in 1970, (they only arrived in the UK circa 1967) and I would trust them over and above any other person.

Incidentally, in France, some Breeders quite routinely home their pups at 6 weeks, all being well. Without any detrimental effects at all :)

Hairypooch,

I agree I'd prefer to both buy and sell pups at about 7 weeks in my breeds (labs/springers/cockers), but I certainly wouldn't lose any sleep about taking a pup later if they had been reared by the right person.

The words Barge Pole & wouldn't touch come to mind

This sounds like someone trying to off load an unwanted puppy & yes she should have gone back to her breeder

have you looked at the epupz site? some people disaprove of it but i found some lovely buyers for my pups on this site. They do have kc reg pups on there.

I wasn't sure about e-pupz. There are some ads on there from well known areas for puppy farming (from posts I've read on here) and some are offering delivery, which as I  undertstand it is against some of the basic principles of buying a puppy, so I never really knew where I stood with the site - it's also where I saw this pup I origianlly posted about.

My old goldie was delivered by her breeder, he was in Aberdeen and I live in Sussex He insisted on delivering her, I guess if he didn't like what he saw, he would take her straight back. Having said that tho, we had been to see them and chose our girl beforehand :D

Don't know much about e-pupz, but I would be careful if i were you

In exceptional circumstances, my breeder has delivered pups, after they have been seen by the prospective owner.

He said that out of the 5 or so pups that he has delivered over the years, he has ended up bringing 2 back home again because he had been misled at the beginning and just wasn't happy.

Mt puppy's breeder almost delivered him to me as he was on the way to the Orkneys from Cornwall & I live in Yorkshire. & he was 3 months old before I got him & we met at an agreed place on his route

However although we had never met & I hadn't seen the puppies either  there were plenty of people who know me & Roy & both of us are a bit infamous in the best possible way ;) He wasn't an impulse aquistion either & the breeding of the puppies was thoroughly researched etc

And my dogs go nowhere after they come to me whether they make it as a show/working dog or not. My dogs are definitely for Life

My situation is different to someone purely looking for a pet & buying one from someone they have had no contact with beforehand of course & if I was getting a puppy from someone I didn't know at all it would be totally different

I delivered all of the pups from a litter I hand reared. Drove from Scotland to Devon, dropping pups off along the way. I knew all the people the pups were going to but I delivered that lot (and stayed over a night with each of them) because I was anxious about them - they were going younger than I usually let pups go at 8 weeks because they had no maternal input and they had been completely hand reared.

Our pup was handed over in the car park of a M1 service station somewhere in Yorkshire :D :D Although the whole thing was completely legitimate (we'd been on holiday in Yorkshire, the breeder lived in Liverpool and we live in Essex), we had met both the breeders and the pup beforehand, but we still felt very guilty and wondered if someone was tut-tutting somewhere :D

Daisy

There are also some Champion Kennels that advertise on epupz occasionally.  You just need to make sure you cross reference carefully by looking at the kennel websites or by cross referencing on CD home pages. So long as you are careful which you obviously are there is no reason not to have a browse.  Having said that for my breed there are never more than 2 pages but for others there are umpteen pages which would be like looking for needle in haystack.  How patient are you? :D

I was looking on 'epupz' just generally looking for a big - large dog- only for prices at the minute (havent done enough research yet!), and i see they have tiger great danes? - What is one of these? is it just brindle?

Marmite - do you mean that on Epupz you can do a "search" for a puppy by size/price??????

No - but i can put a breed of dog in that is large i.e. great dane and then i can look at the prices, just out of interest.

I would say so. People often call Phoebe a tiger dog :)

The ad says she's from a licensed breeder,

THIS is what would make me worry. You only need a license if you breed more than 5 litters a year, and not many repsonsible breeders would have that many litters -especially not of large breeds.

Hi I have a friend in the midlands who is currently planning a litter so it will involve you waiting a while but the puppies will be well reared and from health tested parents if you contact me off forum i will give you here details. :)
other than this stop looking for actual puppies and look for breeders who health test and rear the puppies well and prepared to wait for the right puppy it will be worth it in the end. :)

Yes but the club secretary isn't being helpful in this regard, as they aren't giving breeders details who are 'planning' a litter.

If the breed club does not have a breeder list, or a planned litter list, only an actual pups born list then maybe they should say so rather than make the OP feel silly when in fact they are going about things the correct way, wanting to go on a waiting list, but not given the help to do so?

We got our golden girl after xmas had to wait 12 months for her, have you tried your local rescue?? if you want your nearest Golden Rescue to you please mail me I can give you some numbers.
Only ask as we had a 12 week old pup in our rescue last week, and he had already had 4 homes....needles to say he is now rehomed and ok.

"[...]we had a 12 week old pup in our rescue last week, and he had already had 4 homes[...]"

that's disgraceful - poor little mite!  Good to hear that he's now doing well in his new (hopefully lifelong) home :)