Hello
Tansy is a JRX, and generally her behaviour is excellent. She is 6 mths now, and I have just one small concern. At puppy classes....(VERY large numbers)...she will occasionally growl at a younger pup bouncing into her space. The trainer said to jerk at her lead and tell her 'no' firmly. I have been doing this, but I can't help but wonder. Is it aggression on Tansy's part, or just that she is a bit older and learning 'doggie language'? That is, could she be just telling the pup off as an older dog would do? If she is just telling a pup to stop bouncing around her, should I be telling her off? She never makes an attempt to bite, and she doesn't snarl...it's just a low growl.
Apart from that, she is fine with other dogs and allows my friends kids to cuddle her and play rough. Although she is little, her favourite friends are an enormous Bassett, an Irish Wolfhound pup and a Burmese pup, and she enjoys romping with them. Any thoughts appreciated.
Best wishes :-) :-)

[link]http://www.flyingdogpress.com/sayhi.html[/link]

Get yourself another trainer!

One who understands dog behaviour and WHICH owner (not dog) should be educated about space invaders...............

Read the above and if necessary print it out and give as a present to your trainer!

It is the OTHER dog that is being rude not yours!

thanks for an amazing link Tohme.  I've been stressing myself out about my staff now hating pups since my friend got one and find myself getting increasingly anxious when she is around pups, especially when they start to lick her face which I know she doesn't like but will tolerate from adult dogs.  i found it very reassuring and will show it to my friend aswell as she was concerned her pup was going to end up mangled in a staffys jaws  

Thanks Tohme...that is really an excellent link and I have read every word and saved it onto my comp. I will print a copy and hand it to the trainer next time she suggests that Tansy's behaviour is inappropriate. It is difficult to get a trainer here, and all classes are over subscribed, and I figured it was probably better than nothing. She is learning how to be in close proximity to other dogs, and still maintain her distance.
I was proud of her last night. I let her into my friends garden for a wee, and a man went past with a quiet big white dog. Tansy went a bit loopy, but because of her training she sat on command and waited quietly while the other dog went past. She is learning her manners!!

My baby girl  http://pathways.blog.3000.co.uk/ Hope no one minds

ive just had a look she is just sooooooooo
cute!!

Doing as your trainer suggests sounds like a very good way to teach Tansy that you get stressed about other dogs coming too close and that you need help from her to keep them away :(

I think no puppy classes are better than bad ones :)

If you can't find another, do what you can on your own and subscribe to the best class you can for training help and socialisation in the near future :)

I'd agree with this, but it depends on what you think you can get away with.

For example, if a trainer told me to do this, I'd make a half-hearted attempt at pulling the lead which didn't even move the dog.  If the trainer then wanted to "show" me how to do it, then I would explain that isn't how I want to train.  If the trainer is ok with that, fine.  If not - leave. 

There are some trainers who, although their methods leave a lot to be desired, also don't seem to mind if people do things another way.  If you genuinely can't find another class, and you think your trainer will let you do things your way, then you do get the benefit of socialisation with other dogs. 

This assumes that you've done a bit of reading and know how to achieve at least the basic behaviours using treats, lure and reward and clicker methods.

If there is any way you can find a better class... - Where are you based that there are so few classes around?

Ramsgate in Kent. It is mainly the socialisation she needs, and to learn to sit, down etc while there are other dogs around. The classes go as follows
1. Heel work
2. Take each pup around to say hello to other pups
3. Cross past then to other dog and sit.
4. Cross past then to other dog and down.
5. Each dog is left with trainer while you walk about 10 feet away, and call your dog.
6. Finish with heel work if time.

Tansy does not heel ever. She just pulls hard to catch up with dog in front, as they all do. I really don't see how walking 20 pups around in a circle teaches them 'heel'
The trainer actually did 'show' me how to discipline Tansy. I am a real chicken and said nothing, even though I didn't like it. I assumed that the trainer must be correct.
Tansy knows and obeys sit, down, come(mostly), wait, paw and stay. She also has her 'tricks' like count to three. She was treat trained before she went to puppy class.

Hi -

You don't mention any treats being given in the class or how they are trying to get the dogs to do these things.  Is it just a case of - tell them to stay, and if they move, shove their bums down again, then leave them again?  And heelwork is just walking round in a circle with no consequences if they do the right thing?

You really need to find a class which uses better methods than these.  You are right that just walking 20 pups (that's a hell of a lot of pups btw) in a circle isn't going to teach them anything - UNLESS they are being rewarded for being in the right position by your side.  By the way, there shouldn't be more than at most 10 pups in a class - never 20!!!!!!

Personally I don't know of a class to recommend for you in Kent, but maybe someone else here will.

In the meantime, I think you should check out this website and see if any of the classes are near you.

Here is a list of positive reinforcement classes in Kent:

http://www.apdt.co.uk/trainers_area.asp?area=Kent

Sorry onetwothree....I neglected to say that they do get treats as encouragement for 'down' for example, and if they 'come'. The 'heel' thing is actually quite nightmareish frankly. 20 pups all pulling like mad to get to the pup in front!! She has not suggested a method to get them to heel, we just walk round with our pups on a tight lead to the left occasionally saying 'heel'. If Tansy did walk to heel (and we do train on walks, so it is possible)...I would give her a treat definately.
Thank you for the link, I have looked through it and none of them are near enough to me to be feasible sadly. I will have to keep my eyes open for another class locally.

Here are some more links where you might find trainers.

http://www.clickerteachers.net/

These two below I would definitely advise watching any class before going, because there are all kinds of clubs listed here:

http://www.dogclub.co.uk/regions/index.php

http://www.obedienceuk.com/viewprofile.asp

Wow thanks onetwothree....thank you for taking the time to help. I have looked around the links you posted and have contacted one about 20 miles from me. Have pup will travel eh? http://www.meadowdogs.co.uk/ These sounded really good, so I will wait to hear back regarding times, cost etc. I am limited to when my husband is home as I have no transport, but heres hoping!!
Thanks again for your trouble
Best wishes
Wendy

Yup, they look excellent - good luck and let us know how the first class goes.

Hi again
We didn't waste any time, and took Tansy to Meadowdogs this morning for a taster lesson. It was far less stressful for both Tansy and myself!! The training is done outside in a big meadow. There are lots of helpers on hand as well as the main trainer. The pups were allowed off lead to romp for a couple of minutes which was wonderful because Tansy has not had that before. She didn't do any growling either!! She came when called. When they do heel work, no pup is to be within 5 paces of another so that their attention is on you. They do the 'Good citizenship' scheme for dogs up to gold, and they do agility too for the older dogs. Robert, the owner, beside being the south east trainer for Dogs Trust has also trained police dogs for years.
A very positive experience. We have signed her up!!
Thanks again onetwothree.

Excellent, that's great news - good luck if you do the Good Cits scheme!