My partner's mums 4 year old shepherd is in the vets with suspected Parvo. My partner's mum was away for the weekend with work, and so her farm was being cared for by a lady who regularly comes in and stays to take care of the dogs and horses. On the Saturday Lu (the 4 year old shepherd) squatted down to do a poo but instead just blood came out - it was apparently so bad the driveway is still stained red. She also had some yellow runs after. In herself though she seemed perfectly fine. Living in a remote area, the lady called the vets and couldn't get through, so while trying she fed the dogs as normal. Lu then vomited up all of her meal and there was blood in her vomit. The lady then put her in the car and rushed her to the vets to demand an appointment. Lu is now being kept in isolation, but hasn't eaten at all since Saturday. She was on a drip until yesterday when she manged to take water for herself, but even then the veterinary staff said there were moments when it looked as though she was going to bring that up, but she did manage to keep it down. At first the vets didn't have a clue what it was, but after a meeting yesterday they decided to treat it as if it is parvo even though there are many symptoms that don't fit (she has no lethargy, no weight loss, she still has an extremely healthy appetite but she can't keep food down etc) They have said they are unwilling to xray her as they fear putting her under anasthetic with a yet to be securely diagnosed condition (and they fear they will loose her under anasthetic), so they cannot as yet rule out some kind of abstruction. They have said that although she is improving slowly she is certainly not out of danger. They have taken blood samples and all that showed was a slightly high temperature, but they cannot take a stool sample as she hasn't passed anything since Saturday. In the meantime, my partner mum has two other dogs, which includes a 12 year old shepherd, and there are now fears wheatever Lu has could be passed on, and it is unlikely the older dog could withstand any serious illness at her age. My partners mum is beside herself because she has been told she cannot see Lu for fear she will pass on something to the other dogs, and in the meantime she has disinfected her home and all the dogs feeding and water bowls with a chlorine bleach mixture (diluted with water) as advised in cases of parvo. For one, does this sound like parvo, and if so, what steps can she take to protect her other two dogs, and also what should be done if Lu recovers and returns? If not, does anyone have any suggestions as to what this could be? I know she is in the best possible hands being under observation at the vets, but we are all so upset and beside ourselves. We bought Lu for her and she is such a lovely character and the house feels empty without her there. Any help or comments or anything really, would be very much appreciated. We are all so upset.
I should add that I blame the old vet she went to as this vet told her NOT to give her girls annual vaccination boosters because they weren't at risk because they live in a remote area, and that vaccination boosters are too risky.... I am not going to say any more as this is really angering me.

Hi NannyOgg,

I'm so sorry to read how poorly this dog is and can understand your anxieties about the other dogs too :( 

If a full panel of blood tests was done, some results won't be back yet because there are a few which take several days.   I can see why they don't want to carry out an X-ray under GA at the moment but have they not suggested an ultra sound scan (doesn't require GA)?  It would at least indicate any abnormalities - or preferrably lack of them - in vital organs and show if there's a blockage somewhere (although not necessarily identify what's causing it).

Obviously this could be parvo and I have no direct experience of it but equally unless they are aware of other cases in the area it could be a number of other things.  I think I'd be pressing them for more details of what they've already tested for and completely ruled out and what tests are pending.

Best wishes, hopefully you'll get some good news.   Teri :)

I know my partners mum has been told to call the vets later on today for an update, but they must think it is serious as they are not even entertaining the thought of her coming home at all in the near future. I know my partner mum feels terrible as she left the dogs on Thursday so she could go away to work, and so she hasn't seen Lu since getting back. She is such a lovely girl, and I feel that she should have been told to keep the dogs vaccinated, but the thing is, unless you have the benefit of the doubt, and have a lot of knowledge yourself, you trust your vet. We are so worried.

could the vets not xray under heavy sedation instead of an xray?

when i worked in the vets we xrayed many dogs under sedation only and only did it under a GA if the dogs were fiesty or if we were preparing to do an exploritary as well.

it seems mad waiting around especially if there could be an abstruction, if the dog is not able to eat or keep fluids down i cant see how they can expect to wait for it to get a bit stabler before xraying as that would make it a catch 22 situation.?

My vet always X-rays my lot without anaesthetic OR sedation and we haven't had a spoiled or poor plate yet.

Hope they find out soon what's causing it. I know rat poison caused bleeding but that would be picked up from the blood test.
Fingers crossed she's ok
x

Thank you so much xx

Any news? Fingers crossed for you x

Well, the news we have had isn't good, and I am getting more and more angry with the vets. My parnter mum heard today that Lu is still hemorridging badly and is still on a drip. She has now been bleeding since Saturday. They are still treating the condition as Parvo, which I think is ridiculous - if it had been Parvo she would have been dead by now, but also they have no evidence it is Parvo. Since Saturday the only treatment she has received is being kept in isolation, kept on a drip and given antibiotics. They haven't even explored the possibility of a bloackage or ingestion of an object, because they are still saying they do not want to put her under anasthetic for the x-ray. I am under the impression that they could scan her without putting her under, and from the responses that have been on here, she need not be put under for an x-ray. I told her to demand Lu be scanned or x-rayed today, and so she was going to call them this lunchtime. I think it is ridiculous how my partners mum has been treated. They say she is not allowed to visit Lu for fear that she will contaminate her other dogs if it is Parvo (which I can understand as a precaution) but it is causing her real heartache. In addition, they have been directing her as opposed to her being able to direct or have some say in her own dog's treatment, They have been telling her to call once a day at a specific time for updates, but these updates consist of being told that she is still ill, still bleeding, and there is no change - for FIVE DAYS! Surely the vets should have taken some different form of action by now? There is noly so much blood she can loose. I guess I am just so frustrated and worried, and I know that the vets is the best place for her, but it just seems like they are doing nothing. They did send of a stool sample for investigation as poor Lu did manage to go yesterday even after having no food since saturday, but they are still awaiting the results. I just don't know what is going to happen and I really fear for the worst.

Hi, Just wondering how Lu is today? Lets hope something gets sorted and a diagnosis is made so the vets can concentrate on making her better.

Hugs

Hayley

Hiya, sorry to hear about your dog :(  In your first post you said blood tests only showed a high temp, a thermometer would do that, not blood tests. I think someone should have a word with the vet & find out exactly what tests they have run & what for. Also if she`s hemorrhaging from the back passage they can take a sample from that to send for testing if they think its a disease like parvo.
An ill dog like lu could be xrayed without any kind of sedation, wouldn`t think she`d have enough energy to struggle :(

Bloods & fecal testing can be done with most results back very quick in an emergency if vet tells lab its urgent.

Think if it was my dog I`d just turn up at vet & ask whats going on & tell them I wanted to see her for myself. Hope she`ll be alright.

I spoke to my partners mum last night - they sent off a poo sample and she should hear back from them today with the results. They have not to my knowledge sent of a sample of the blood coming out of her behind, and they have as yet not had all the blood tests back. She is very upset with the vet, whose only response has been 'it is up to Lu what happens now' which is a great deal of comfort knowing how ill she is. They are still persisting that it might be parvo, saying there are parvo outbreaks regularly in the area (North Wales). She demanded a scan be done. They refused this yesterday but have seid they will on the strength of the stool sample results today and they have finally got in a canine specialist in. I can only go on what I am told from my partner's mum, but my impression is that she is evidently very confused by what is going on and that is in a large part due to the vet but also because of how distraut she is. They have postulated now that it might be a form of gasto-entiritis (I can't remember the specific name) but there is no doubt that she is very ill.

A poo sample should be able to be cultured just as well as any frank blood from the back passage.  Distressing as it is they do seem to be doing the necessary tests and it does take patience for the results to come in.  The main thing is they are supporting her system with fluids and electrolytes and the fact that she is still with us suggested their management of that is going right.  Goodness knows why they eschewed vaccination though whether this turns out to be Parvo or not fact is it could always happen :(  I'm sure will be all be wishing her well and await further news.

*Goodness knows why they eschewed vaccination though whether this turns out to be Parvo or not fact is it could always happen *

If the vet is using one of the vax that the manufacturers guarentee gives immunity for 3 or 4yrs then that is why a booster wouldn`t be needed, they would be remiss to do otherwise.

*A poo sample should be able to be cultured just as well as any frank blood from the back passage*

Yes but I`m wondering why they didn`t take a sample from the back passage last Sat, when it first started.

When vets are aware of a high level of risk many will give annually as a precaution and wouldn't be remiss in doing so.  Anyway I got the impression the vet did not think this needed boostering at all because there was "no risk" and he is certainly wrong to suggest the risk of damage from the vaccine is greater.  I don't think this is the place to have another vaccination discussion people can use the search facility if they wish to hash over the same stuff.

>but they cannot take a stool sample as she hasn't passed anything since Saturday

I think that explains why it took a little time to get the sample.

Isabel, surely you're not implying that a vet, a highly trained and qualified vet with many many more years experience than you, could possibly be wrong, are you???

They've all got more years experience that me, I don't have any! :D 
Are you are suggesting that because I believe that, as a group, they are highly qualified professional people I can't see that they cannot make any errors?

*I don't think this is the place to have another vaccination discussion people can use the search facility if they wish to hash over the same stuff*

I agree, thats why I chose to ignore N/ogg comments, you could have chose to do the same but you obviously didn`t want to.

*and he is certainly wrong to suggest the risk of damage from the vaccine is greater.*

You don`t know that.

Vets using vax that give immunity for the 3 or 4yrs would be wrong to to give them more often.

*I think that explains why it took a little time to get the sample*

As I said, I wonder why they didn`t take it from the blood she was passing last Saturday.

I would imagine because she had stopped passing it by the time they saw her or had the time to do so after her emergency needs were met.  If it occured to you and me I suspect it occured to the vet that would be useful too :) The fact that NannyOgg mentioned it in her first post also suggests, to me, it was a matter of regret to them also that it had not been achieved sooner.
I suggest you have a look through the old posts in particular the links to the Pooch report if you want to mull over why the risk of vaccines is thought to be very much less that the danger of the diseases themselves if there is anyone else interested in rehashing they can too I really don't think it fair to turn this thread into a picking over of previously covered ground.  My comment was simply in support of NannyOggs own feeling so was not going to lead to any inappropriate discussion if you don't find the answers to my thoughts in the previous threads I suggest you PM me rather than act it out in this thread.

*I suggest you have a look through the old posts in particular the links to the Pooch report if you want to mull over why the risk of vaccines is thought to be very much less that the danger of the diseases themselves if...*

And I suggest you carefully study the facts of the reports of how long immunity lasts for & also what the manufacturers themselves say.

*My comment was simply in support of NannyOggs own feeling....*

So were mine, thats why I didn`t mention vax & see no reason to pm you re your thoughts.

I don't know which one of us is reading it wrong then because I thought NannyOgg felt she wished he had vaccined her.

*I don't know which one of us is reading it wrong then because I thought NannyOgg felt she wished he had vaccined her. *

Its not me thats for sure. As I said, I`d rather see how Lu gets on than have this discussion with you. At the moment its all speculation & that is why I chose to ignore any issue of vax, also its not the time when a dog is poorly.

What I won`t ignore is you making comments that are wrong.

No it is not the time Christine

Exactly Isabel.

Just a few comments here - I am not as passionate as many are about the booster issue. I think it is up to the individual pet owner to make their own decision about boosters. What I found surprising however, is that her vet told her that she needn't give her dog boosters in an area where she has now been told is rife with Parvo! Surely she should have been told this and then given the chance to make a decision herself, not told that the risk from having a booster was such that the vet should advise her not to give boosters. She is now giving her other two dogs a vaccination, and Lu will be vaccinated if she pulls through. Surely a vet should have told her how rife parvo apparently is in her area and giving HER the right to make a decision with a full set of facts.
Also, although she did not pass a stool for a few days after going into veterinary care, why was she not scanned and why was the blood coming out of her back end not sent for testing, My own dog had a serious food intolerance and was passing only mucus and this was still sent off by my vet for tests. I think that is what we are finding hard to understand why we haven't had any answers in 6 days. I know it all takes time, but I think as well it is hard when you are paying a vet only to be basically told 'it is up to Lu if she survives or not' and not really be given any answers. I think you always feel slightly frustrated with your vet anyway in a situation liek this, and that must be tough for the vets, as I have been there with other anmals I have had when you just feel helpless and not able to do anything and equally you feel like you are not getting any answers, so I guess it is tough for the vets too. We are just all hoping for a happy outcome. For her to have come this far i think shows her to be a fighter.

Hiya N/ogg. Intervet, Fort Dodge & another can`t remember off hand, vaccine boosters give immunity to parvo, adno & distemper for 3 yrs & the other 4yrs so that means theirboosters arent needed every yr. I would think thats why the vet said they weren`t needed. But its better to wait & see what she has rather than speculate :) If it is indeed parvo she has then she will be immune for life & won`t need vaxing against it anymore. I had a pup with it a few yrs back & thats the advice I was given by Hal Thompson at Glasgow Vet. Uni. :)

*Also, although she did not pass a stool for a few days after going into veterinary care, why was she not scanned and why was the blood coming out of her back end not sent for testing, *

I agree & would certainly be asking vet about it

Hiya, gasrto-enteritis type diseases mostly need the same kind of treatments, fluids & a/b`s & thats what Lu`s getting so all can be done now is to wait.

I`m just surprised at length of time its taking to get results back from last Saturday

Hope theres better news later :)

I thin that is what we are finding most upsetting - the fact that this has been going on since Saturday. We also heard so many conflicting things from the vet. I know tests take time, but it is just very distressing to hear the vet and the nurses updating constantly and saying 'there has been more hemmoriging' and not hearing any results from tests. I think that is what has worried up most. i must admit, I take comfort in the fact she has lasted this long, and at 4 years old she is a really fit and healthy age to fight this off, and she certainly is a strong personality if that helps at all. We are just all waiting for news. I will let you all know, and it has been very comforting to hear people's suggestions, comments, and well wishes for Lu.

Thank you xxx

Hiya N/ogg, yes its a good sign shes still fighting :)

I don`t see any reason why they didn`t take a sample of the blood from her back passage last wk, I`m pretty sure the results would have been back by now. Certan blood tests do take longer for sure but some results should have come thru by now I`d think. But you should find out what they are testing for. Could you not ring on your partners mums behalf & ask what has been ruled out & what results they are still waiting for? Can she be persuaded to go the vets in person?

I know what you are going through, having had a dog with parvo many years ago. Sadly he didn't make it, ( weakened by an operation to see if he had a blockage ) but it sounds as if your dog is fighting and hanging in there. I think the most important thing is to keep the fluids going in and then it is just a matter of time. Good luck and I really hope things starrt looking up soon.

Thanks, I appreciate that, we are just hoping it turns out it isn't parvo.

fingers crossed for Lu, my pup died of parvo last year, (not Merlin) The symptons i remember most were that the poo had the most awful indescribable smell, almost like metal. He couldnt keep anything down and was seriously ill within days. Poor chap died within a week of me having him, he was fine for 2 days and then the diahroea started and 2 days after the sickness started. His did have poop with it, all be it runny which didnt change to bile until day 5. I hope she is ok and the only bit of advice i can give is that if the vet is not satisfying your requests or you are not happy, speak to another one, you will have to pay consultation fee and iff the dog is well enough have her moved by animal ambulance. Good luck for her i really hope she is ok.

We have had some news yesterday evening. She was off the drip and the nurses were trying her on solid food. She is also apparently a lot brighter than she has been. The thing is, there are apparently STILL no results back from the stool sample tests! So, they are still not giving a secure diagnosis. I mentioned I thought she should be moved to another vet, but I think because of how bad she was until yestersday, my partners mum a) didn't want to risk moving her, and b) didn't want to antagonise the vet in whose care she was in. We are waiting for an update today, but at least that is an improvement. I offered to call the vet myself to demand to know what exactly they had done and what they intended to do, to try and get some clear answers, as I think the problem here is that she has been given so many different potential diagnoses and spoken to so many different nurses and two different vets based at the practice, that there is some need for clarity. However, i think she was so worried for Lu's care that she didn;t want to cause ructions with the vet, so declined my offer.
Thank you al so, so much for all the supportive comments. Hearing what some of you have to say has certainly helped me to understand a lot of the issues surrounding this, and it is good to know this is such a friendly and supportive community.

good that sounds a bit better for you - just one thing - I have a very poorly dog at the moment with vomiting and diarhhea. We had a poo sample taken on Tuesday and last evening (5 pm) our vet rang whilst I waited in the surgery to see if there were any results. The lab did the test there and then and I got the results later that evening, so I think you need to start pushing your vet to ring the lab and chase results because tests can be done quicker. ps Charley was tested for Giardia, campo and parvo so all can be done in 2-3 days.

Oh thats sounding good N/O :) 

Being honest I wouldn`t have asked for her to be moved either. The only thing I`d have done was pushed for results, fecal tests have been a couple of days,(as poster below says) if its been vet over phone to lab & then confirmation sent following by eitherpost/fax/email following day. And also I`d have gone to see vet face to face regardless they`d said not to But its difficult I know :(

When things have calmed down & Lu`s more better I`d put all your questions to paper & take them along to vet, hand them over & ask for answers. But better to appear to be all nice n calm, even if you`re not inside ;)  Maybe you could go with her to visit Lu ?

Anyway thanks for the update & hope it continues :)

Good news on Lu! The tests results have confirmed it is not parvo, however, my partner's mum still hasn't been given a diagnosis so there is still no explanation as to what the cause was. Lu managed to eat chicken and rice earlier on today and all bleeding has stopped, as well as the vomitting. They have said as long as she has a good night she can go home tomorrow. My partner's mum is going to meet with the vet tomorrow for a chat as to what the cause may have been.

That's really good news.  She will be delighted to get her home I'm sure.  I suppose there is a chance they will never know what happened but the main thing is that she has turned around :)

we had a very similar case to this a few months ago- we didnt know what route to take, the vet tried her on fluids/antibioitcs etc, in the end we had no where else to go with the dog, so got permission to open her up. she had a small piece of metal in her guts- it had lodged itself in the wall of intestine and this is what was causing the bleeding,vomitting, off food etc. im not saying this is the problem- just that i think it would be wise to anaesthetise/xray/operate to get to the problem.

hope she recovers xx

I think she intends to find out from the vet tomorrow why they didn;t proceed with a scan. I think she is tempted to insist a scan is done if the vet cannot provide a suitable explanation as to why she was taken sick like this. At the moment we are all so chuffed she is back to health, and she will be so happy to be going home tomorrow and seeing her mummy!

Thats lovely news :) she`ll be so happy to get home :D

Have been following this thread N/O and am delighted that Lu is on the mend :)

Would be interesting though to find out exactly what was the cause of this. I know I would want to know to prevent it happening again.

Brilliant news :) :)

I have also been watching this thread and i am thrilled she has pulled through and going home :-)

She is now staying at the vets until Monday. She is still doing really well - eating, with no more blood coming from her back end, and no more vomitting. The vet decided he wanted to investigate further that this may have been, and my partners  mum also wanted a scan done to check it out further. She is doing really well, but I think she really wanted to have a diagnosis if possible in case this should happen again or if it is something that requires longer term treatment. If they come up with anything I will let you guys know. As yet though, she is doing really well.
Thanks to you all xxx

Ohhhh bet you`re all disappointed, never mind Mondays only a day away now :)

Sounds like she`s really on the mend now tho, thats great :D

Lu is home now and apparently she is carrying on like you wouldn't know there had been anything wrong. STILL no test results back yet, so as yet whatever it was remains undiagnosed. Apparently the results are expected 'sometime this week', so I will let you guys know. I can't believe it takes this long to get test results back.

Hi
i had my pup tested for parvo and got the results the same day!
then agreed to have him tested for distemper which the vet said would go by post which would take 2-3 days to get the results back (but for some unknown reason he didn't go ahead with the test???)
Helen

Hi N/O. Great news on Lu!! How do they expect to treat a problem if the results take so long to get back........luckily for Lu she's recovered but if it was life threatening........

Smashing news :D :D :D

Afraid I`d be very angry about the test results not being back tho, thats just not on  

Would want a full explanation as to why they`ve taken so long   Remember you`re paying for them..........

ps it took tests for my pup 10 days a few yrs back but they were sent from Gibraltar to UK at wk/end & it was a biopsy, a biopsy done at the local hospital took 5dys, thats just to give you an idea