I am looking for some advice/veiws on this
please let me know if you have personally experienced this
many thanks
Helen

If it is not extreme and the dog is a pup then it may coem right as the lower jaw continues to grwo after the top has stopped.

Hi Brainless
Thanks for your quick reply
How much is serious?
this pup 's lower jaw is about 1/2" far back
Thanks
Helen

Hi Helen, you say the pups lower jaw is half an inch back from the upper. I'm sorry to say, such a gap is very definately serious. The bottom teeth should fit closely behind the top. A 1/2 inch space is bad.

Dawn R.

Hi Dawn
does this mean that the lower jaw will not grow to close the gap?
thanks
Helen

I had a border collie who was very overshot, and she suffered no health problems.

The main drawback was she had some difficulty  in picking up small articles and holding them, as I worked her in Working Trials.  It was such a shame to see small articles coming out of the side of her mouth sometimes, but she did very well bless her.

Hi could you possibly be more specific
how much over shot?
i previously wrote this pups lower jawis about 1/2" back
the breeder says he eats well (you can see this as he looks well fed!) and she says he can eat chews and bones without problems
i'm just looking for a healthy family pet- do you think i should avoid this pup?
i' also thinking i dont mind taking on this pup as long as he doesn't get into problems through his overshot mouth
just trying to get more advice and personal veiws before making such a big decision
Helen

Oh Helen, I have to say that if the puppy is still only weeks old, still being with the breeder and he has a mouth like this, I would certainly be avoiding buying him. :(There is no way of knowing whether or not he would have problems but obviously the potential is there, for this to be trouble in the future.

I wouldn't buy this puppy. Somewhere, there is a healthy baby just waiting for you to find him. :)

Good luck :)

Dawn R. (I have a dog with an undershot mouth, but his went at 5 months)

Hi Dawn
thanks for your reply
the puppy is still with the breeder as she has the three brothers which she chose to show, she tells me that she is now selling on the one with the overshot mouth as she wont show him (incidently his mother won cruffs 2000). A vet has told me that if the pup is eating and drinking well with an overshot mouth the lower jaw will certainly grow- with some time this will only get better. He said that it will not get any worse as the top jaw doesn't grow anymore.
Please tell me about your dog with an undershot mouth- how bad was it? could he pick up things? eat? drink? chew?
This pup as i've said doesnt seem to have any problems with his mouth at this stage
I also understand even the healthyest dog is a gamble!
Helen

In my opinion i would say it will stay under sot. pc aint workin prop, sorry.:rolleyes:

Susan
 

On what medical qualifications and experience of border collies do you have to base that opinion on.
Helen you are looking at a responsible breeder, you have had advice from the vet. By all means get another vet's point of view. Posters on here have been positve, those who have knowledge and personal experience on borders.
Another thing you could do is speak some other breeders that I have sent you to help make your mind up.
Go with your gut feeling on this pup. I know you've already had one big upset with your previous pup and your feeling vulnerable. Speak to people in the breed to make an honest assessment. If you decide not to get him then let the breeder know. She is lovely and will understand.

Megan57collies, is that comment directed at me?

I think I have given sound general advice, based on 35 years experience of several dog breeds. I stand by my original comment, that if I were thinking of buying a puppy I would avoid one that was 1/2 an inch overshot at 8 weeks. (or however many weeks these pups are, still being with the breeder)

I agree that the breeder is probably perfectly responsible, she has after all pointed out this pups mouth fault, and she's in no way to blame, for the problem, but I could not in all honesty encourage anyone to buy any puppy that has a defect of any kind.

You sound like you know breeder personally, and I can't blame you for defending her, but I'm not critisising the breeder. just giving general puppy buying advice. :)

Dawn R.

Dawn.
If you look at my previous reply, you'll see I did not reply to you therefore wasn't aiming at you. You give sound advice on what the original post has said. Yes, I do know the breeder but by reputation as we are in the same breed. Helen and I have been chatting privately about this for a couple of weeks now. I am not defending anyone as I see no reason to. What I am suggesting to Helen as she is the only one who has seen the pup is, no it's not perfect in terms of its bite so it's being rehomed as a pet as opposed to a show dog (breeder did run the pups on to keep for showing apparently)  but she has been given an honest response from the breeder, advice from the vet. She either accepts what those people have told her or walks away. Helen has had a terrible time lately and is looking for advice regarding this. Unfortunately she will not get a resound yay or ney regarding this as it's a difficult one to call without anyone seeing this pup.

TBH it all depends on what you want your puppy for. If it is as a pet or for something like  agility Then the bite if a bit overshot is no real problem. Now if it is for showing/.breeding, obedience/WT then then she may not be suitable

One of my German bred GSDs had soft ears didn't stop him being a good obedience dog

Thanks for your advice
yes i am looking to home a puppy
the overshot mouth is not such a huge problem as previously stated as the puppy is eating, drinking, chewing etc not being a breeder or vet all i want is a dog to take care of and love again within our family
the vet said that the mouth will not get any worse but the bottom jaw will continue too grow-therefore i personally can't see any problems-other than his overshot mouth can only improve
it would me most helpful on this site for people to let others know their proffessional advice i.e stating they've bred for 30 years or they are a trainet vet,etc although i hope what i read is truthful
The breeder i visited is very experienced at breeding and showing her dogs which i saw evidence of on my visit (met the pups mum and 2 brothers), she is also a member of the breeders club. I will not show or mate the dog just give it a good loving home
Helen

Hi Nursery

you wrote "I could not in all honesty encourage anyone to buy any puppy that has a defect of any kind"

if no one buys or homes these puppies because of your encouragement advice what happens to them???

are you suggesting that any puppy with a defect should not be bought?

if a breeder has a pup with a snag in its tail because of the way it was laying before being born should no one buy it on your advice

seems that not only you would avoid buying one that was 1/2 an inch overshot but also you would avoid buying any puppy that has a defect of any kind

Please understand this is no way a personal attack on you but maybe you can enlighten me with your way of thinking

Maybe you only show perfect dogs

i dont any show dogs so i'm not looking for perfection just healthy
Helen

My Grans Border Collie had an overshot mouth and i have to say he had no problems whatsoever, he was a great dog and lived an active normal life.

Thanks for the confidence you have given me
Helen

Hi Helen, all dogs and all puppies have faults, I think we all agree that the perfect puppy is yet to be born. So no, I'm not saying that puppies with minor faults should be avoided by everyone. I'm talking about congenital defects. Major faults that have a likelyhood or even just a chance of affecting a puppys health throughout it's adult life. Most people want a happy healthy puppy to love for around 15 years or so, one that isn't going to cost a fortune in vet bills and heartache. I'm talking generally here, not about your specific situation. :)

So, in general, I do not advise that anyone should buy a puppy with health problems. There are hundreds of puppies that have an even chance of being healthy, things can go wrong so easily in any case, so why begin with the odds against, and remember, I didn't tell you not to buy this puppy, I said ''I would not buy this puppy''.

Dawn R. :)

As you have no intention of showing or breeding this puppy I'd think you're probably okay to have him as a pet. There are obviously no guarantees that he'll have no problems (no puppy comes with a guarantee!), and I've known one dog, a Basset hound, which was horrendously overshot - she was adult but her top jaw still protruded about ¾-inch beyond the lower. She managed okay.

Like i have said
"A vet has told me that if the pup is eating and drinking well with an overshot mouth the lower jaw will certainly grow- with some time this will only get better. He said that it will not get any worse as the top jaw doesn't grow anymore".

Dont understand what problems he could possibly have that he is not showing at the moment?
Helen

i have known quite a few BCs with this,never seemed to cause them much problem,if its going to be "purely" a pet & youd like him & like the breeder & trust her,then why not.

hi helen,
i bought a pup with an overshot jaw a few years ago.  i had no intention of showing him, bought him with the hope to race and as a vet nurse was well aware of possible problems that could occur so was happy to have him when the people who originally booked him refused him when his bite was noticed.  he remains overshot as an adult, he is 4 now, although i think it improved slightly as he grew it remains noticebly overshot.  anyway, he had no problems eating or chewing etc, infact he was very destructive as a pup, looking back i think this was due to the discomfort he was in as his lower canine was sitting inside the upper teeth and actually cutting into his upper palate.  he never showed any signs of discomfort or pain and as i say he managed perfectly well!  the only signs were him drooling a little, again looking back this was probably due to the tooth cutting into his palate causing pain and discomfort.  as a result i took him to a specialist canine dentist and rather then remove the tooth (canine teeth  especially healthy ones in young dogs are a nightmare to remove!) we opted for the canine tooth to be cut down to gum level and root canal surgery was performed to remove the pulp etc and the tooth was capped.  this solved the problem and allowed the large ulcerated hole in his upper palate to heal.  he has no problems now with his mouth now. 
i have no regrets with buying him, he is a very well built dog with great movement, fab working attitude with great personality.  he has a good pedigree (his sire is a ch, with about 18cc;s including wining dcc at crufts at age 11 or so)but unfortunatly this things can crop up from the best of lines.  his mouth does not stop him from working and he is actually my best lead dog at present and is a joy to have!
i would say if you are aware of the problems and are happy with the pup and the breeder and the pedigree and know you will be unable to show or breed then go for it.  in my opinion a pup from a good breeder with all the relevent health tests and good background with a minor cosmetic fault deserves just a good home as those considered to be show prospects! 
just make sure he is insured the day you pick him and claim ignorance about the fault when it is noticed by the vet at vaccs/check ups in case he ever does need corrective surgery. 

Thanks very much for the advice
the pup will be insured for 6 weeks through pet plan when i collect him
do you think they or any insurance will cover an exsisting condition???
i think most dont
I have agreed with the breeder to have him vaccinated with both jabs before i collect him
so his mouth will go un noticed - until he visits a vet by which time - will most likely know it was like it from birth
i will definately watch out when he cuts his teeth
thanks
Helen

hi,
yes you are right, insurance co;s do not cover pre exisitng problems BUT all he has is at present is an incorrect bite that is not causing him a problem.  he may never have a problem and never need treatment.  it all depends where the teeth sit in the mouth.  mine had a problem as one lower canine was sitting to the side of the upper canine. 
the same applies to pups that develop HD (can be argued that this is a congential/hereditary problem) and companies will cover that as long as the pup is not showing signs of problems or has treatment at the time the policy is taken out.  besides bites come and go all the time and change as pups grow!  even pups with perfect scissor bites can go off and incorrect bites can correct themselves so no one can say it was bad from birth.  i dont think my pups was noticed until he was 6 weeks and he had been vet checked etc to be wormed before this age. 
my pup came with a 6 weeks policy from the breeder.  no vet has to check the pup for this to be valid, think the breeder just fills in the slip.  i continued this policy with petplan so there was never a break in cover and when he needed treatment at 18 months of age they never questioned it.
good luck with your little one! :-)

Hi Scratchy
Thanks for your advice
it is much appreciated
Helen

Also as the new tetth won't be in, he coudl conceivably of had a proper bite as a baby and then grow new teeth in wrong (happens often that way).