Hello,

I have my posting hat on today and have a question that has been niggling away:

Breeds have their relevant health tests etc hips eyes etc etc etc and it is obvious why these tests should be carried out.

Why do some breeders refuse to health test and say it is not neccessary?  I mean breeders who show etc not Mr Producer down the road.

Why after getting health test results back that are not what they had hoped: e.g vwd carrier, high hip score etc etc do they then proceed to mate their dog or bitch?

I have noticed that some breeders have mated carrier to carrier for example which is a no no. 

My final question is:

If they are breeding without health testing why doesnt anybody say anything.   Or if people are mating carriers to carriers why do they get away with it?  Are people frightened to speak out?

Am I missing something here?  What are your views?

If they are not a member of a breed club then nothing can be done!

Well I know for certain that in cats, where we have in my breeds one gentical illness that it didn't use to be POSSIBLE testing for until 10 months of age (we now have a DNA test so no age limit), so a bit similar to say hip scoring in dogs, people would get a kitten, show it, it would do well, perhaps even extremely well, then it would either be tested and found to be postive, or the owner would decide not to test in case it was positive as they didn't want to know........and then they would breed it. In other words the show results meant more than the health.

Head in the sand coems to mind, but there are grey areas.

In diseases with a DNA test therre is no reason not to use carriers as long as they are only mated to clear, as no affecteds can be produced. 

It would be unwise to throw the baby out with the bathwater and needlessly restrict the gene pool by not using good carriers. 

Eventually there would be fewer and fewer carriers and the KC and breed clubs (as they have done with CLAD in Irish  setters) would decide tht carriers should no longer be used.

As for HD scores, this is also an area where some leeway can be used to good effect.  Inheritance for the condition is only around 30-40%, and other factors come into play like diet and environment.  Therefore an excellent specimin with a higher than average hip score can justifiably be used if the scores in it's ancestry are good and a partner of very good score is used, and offspring monitored and appropriately used (or not).

The ISDS proved that insisting on clear eye tests before registering puppies that it is possible to bring done the rate of genetic problems & as Barbara wrote the DNA testing has opened up previously closed bloodlines. There was a superb working BC who was a known carrier whose bloodlines were lost until the DNA test developed & his offspring can now be registered with no lare penalties as long obviously as they are not affected. Sadly he died recently but at least his clear/carrier off spring will be able to be used to carry on his legacy

It would be so simple to bring in no health test no regisration ! QED I believe

Therefore an excellent specimin with a higher than average hip score can justifiably be used if the scores in it's ancestry are good and a partner of very good score is used, and offspring monitored and appropriately used (or not).

Hm, well, we don't really know HOW HD is inherited though.......... I have a dog whose dam was 30/30 -3 times the breed average. Mated to a stud of 6/6 (less than average) "known hip improver". No other really high scores behind the mother. My dog's score: 48/48.

It is a risk, smae can happen with two dogs with exceletn hip scores to start with.  No certainties as it is not a simple inherited trait.