Sorry if this turns out to me a long post - it's been a very long story !!

My partners dog Jack (lab x GSD) has been plagued by health problems - he has epilepsy, has had demodex and before Xmas the vets found the Albumin levels in his blood were very low.  These were tested again today and he also had a scan of his tummy because they thought he might have a malabsorption problem :(

Well the Albumin levels had increased from 15 to 21 (under 18 is a problem and over 24 is a desirable number).  He was originally fed on Chappie, but has been fed on Arden Grange for a few months now.

Anyway the result of this is that there is no proof that this is a food allergy, or if it is a food allergy the vet says that there is no test to show which food it is, but is likely to be a protein and has put him on Hills Sensitive at £56 for a 14kg bag !!
The Arden Grange is about £28 for a 15kg bag so this is quite a rise in our feeding bill - we have 3 dogs between us.

The vet admits that i is possible that the change to Arden Grange may be why the levels have risen since the last test. 

I just feel that they have done test after test and all the results are inconclusive.  I feel that all this may just be to get as much money out of pet plan as possible and less to look after poor Jack

Hope you can help
Paula

Hi Paula,

I'm not a fan of prescription diets unless there is no other solution for a specific problem - and going by the inconclusive diagnosis, it IMO doesn't necessarily warrant going down the prescription diet route.  You say Jack is on Hills Sensitive - does it say anything else on the bag such as hydrolysed or initials i/d, z/d or z/d ultra ?  And what is the protein made up of (i.e. lamb / chicken / fish etc).  As the vet has assumed it's a protein based issue, I'd want to compare the proteins used with that of the food used previously as if they are the same ones then there's little point in feeding the same diet merely under a different recipe from alternative manufacturer  ;)

Personally I'd try a quality brand with minimum ingredients that doesn't come under the umbrella of a "prescription diet" such as Burns, Nature Diet or (my preference) Wafcol's Salmon & Potato and carry out an exclusion trial on the chosen diet (absolutely no other treats, snacks, chews, left-overs etc) for a minimum of 8 weeks on the proviso that there are no adverse reactions of course in that period.  Both are slightly more expensive than Arden Grange but not nearly so much as PD's and both use single source proteins in most of their ranges unlike AG which seem to add chicken fat to almost every recipe.  Wafcol is readily available at Pets at Home and other retail outlets and can also be purchased on-line as can Burns.

HTH, regards Teri :)

Thanks for that Teri - I agree that going down the PD route seems to be a bit unnecessary at this stage.

What you suggest seems very sensible.  Not sure which of the Hills Sensitive it is - we'd pretty much decided not to use it & OH put it in the garage - and it's very dark, wet and windy outside so don't fancy going to look at the mo.   Would send OH out if he was here lol.

Am more than a bit fed up with our vets at the minute - they have a few very high tech surgeries and an up to the minute hospital, which I've probably paid for over the years :rolleyes:.
Am worried about jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire if we change though - anyone know a good vet in Stockport area please pm me !!

Paula

Hi Paula, did your vet tell you what they were testing for exactly & what symptoms is he having re the allergy & how old is Jack?

Demodex is related to the immune system, allergies too, so maybe some immune boosting supps might be helpful :)

Heres a link explaining blood results

http://www.holisticat.com/blood_arch1.html

Agree with Teri, go for minimum ingredient food :)

Jack is 2 and a quarter.  I'm not entirely sure what they were testing for exactly as they spoke to my OH, who tends to switch off when it comes to anything technical

Thanks for the link, will have a proper look tonight.

Sorry I didn't reply sooner, but I couldn't get on the board last night - something about a server !!

Hi Paula, he`s only a young fella then :)

But what allergic symptoms did he have & what made him think it was a malabsorbtion problem, itching, upset tum, vomiting ?

Heres the link for york by the way :)

http://www.animal-allergy.com/pet-owners/allergy-pets.php4

He didn't have any of those symptoms.  It was just that he went into vet hospital because his epilepsy got out of hand and he ended up in status epilepticus :( poor boy.  They did lots of blood tests, noticed that his Albumin levels were very low and recently retested him and they were higher.  However, apparently, this lowering of Albumin means that he has a problem in either his liver, kidneys or bowel. They did an ultrasound and his liver and kidneys are ok so they have deduced that it must be his bowel and that it must be an allergy (which seems quite a leap to me!)

The Yorktest sounds ideal, Jack is insured, luckily. After all the epilepsy investigations and hospitalization, Petplan must be quaking lol

Hiya Paula :)

*They did an ultrasound and his liver and kidneys are ok so they have deduced that it must be his bowel and that it must be an allergy (which seems quite a leap to me!)*

Have to agree with you there

If he has no symptoms of allergies why do they think he has 1, unless its just to to eliminate or maybe it could have caused the epilepsy.

Heres some links you might find helpful :)

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/site_map.htm
http://www.irishwolfhounds.org/epilepsy.htm
http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/healthydiet.html

I am not sure why your vet says that there is no allergy test for food and the results will not identify which foods the dog may be allergic too.

this is untrue and I speak from personal experience having had the tests done on two of my dogs, they identifed the allergens I removed them from the diet and hey presto, no more problems.

Just take a blood sample and send to Yorktest, it is not cheap but if you are insured this will cover it.

In the long run it will be more effective and cheaper than to feed a TRULY hypoallergenic food such as the z/d diets.

Thanks Tohme, can you PM me the details of Yorktest please?

Paula

Here's their website:

http://www.animal-allergy.com/

Paula i would try and omitt all grains from your dogs diet,there is a direct link between grains(complex carbs) and epilepsy.

My personal favourite commercial food is wafcol salmon&potato,also be sure and supplement with RAW beef heart which is high in Taurine,good for epileptic :)

I also think it's a good idea for you to seek a second opinion with another vet,this one sounds like he's playing guessing games.

Heres a site about grains & other stuff & epilepsy :)

http://www.dogtorj.com/pages/556860/index.htm

Thanks everyone :). I don't think they think his epilepsy has anything to do with the allergy - he had an MRI scan a while back, but again that was fairly inconclusive :rolleyes:  One side of his brain was a tiny, tiny bit bigger than the other which they thought might be causing it and this was a birth defect.

I think the best thing to do at the minute will be to try the Wafcol Salmon & rice.

I can't help thinking that these vets are taking advantage of the fact we're insured They just seem to push for everything that they can get

Am truly fed up with them!!  Any tips for finding a new, trustworthy vet, who genuinely has the animals best interest at heart??

Thanks again for all your advice so far, it's been a great help.
Paula

try this there is alot about what people look for in vets

[url]http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/cgi-bin/board/topic_show.pl?pid=639926;hl=;hlm=uid#pid639926[url]

hope it helps

Would you consider a homeopathic vet?

Can give you some links for those :)

Here you are Paula :)

http://www.any-uk-vet.co.uk/day/
http://www.natural-animal-health.co.uk/findvet.htm
http://www.holisticvet.co.uk/
http://www.naturalpetcare.co.uk/holisticvets.htm

Thanks,Christine - we'll try anything once!!! :D

I'll have a look at all those links and see if there's anyone nearby.

Paula

Hi Paula

We have just been through a very similar thing with our 5 1/2 year old GSD, Foggy :( He was put onto a Royal Canin Sensitivity Control prescription diet which really upset his tummy.  The only symptom our boy was showing was weight loss, until he had the prescription diet and that's when he developed diarrohea  After much disagreement with our vet I took him off the Royal Canin as I failed to see how he would gain weight on it whilst it upset him so much.  I decided to try him on Chappie and after three weeks he had gained 2lb:)  Not a significant weight gain but better than losing more.  I had a technical sheet sent to me from Arden Grange as this had been recommended to me but when I showed the vet she was not happy with the content, as though Arden Grange was a fish based diet it had chicken additives in.  I have read an article quite recently that GSDs can be prone to have a disagreement with any dry kibble, I found the article on the internet but cannot find it again!:rolleyes:  Foggy had low albumin levels too as he was not getting enough protein from the food he was currently being fed on (Naturediet).

I hope you can get to the source of the problem and hope that Jack makes a good recovery.  Please let us know how he gets on.

Regards - June

Thanks June, Jack was originally on Chappie and he started losing weight on that, mind you he is a very very active, bouncy dog (I think he got gsd stamina with lab personality :D)

I think what we've decided to do is go with the Wafcol Salmon & Rice, then after 6 weeks take him to have his albumin levels measured again.  Then if that doesn't work, get some blood sent off to Yorktest.

Am glad we at least have somewhere to start rather than just shoving the Hills 'very very expensive, oh and sensitive diet' at him.

Paula

PS Will keep you all posted how we get on, thanks again everyone for all your help

Hi Paula

Thanks for the update :)   Hope Jack's condition improves soon.  The Wafcol diet incidentally is Salmon & Potato rather than rice ;)

Regards, Teri

  

Just a further note, when my gril developed her reaction to her food (severe runs with initial vomiting, swollen gums, tender abdomen (apparently swollen lymph glands), weakness and weight loss, she was having problems with Burns Chicken and Rice. We didn't try her on the other formulations as the vet recommended putting her on a food for dogs with tendencies towards digestive problems (hence why she is on Royal Canin Osteo and Digest). However, she gets less than the recommended kibble and we mix it with either lean beef mince, just stewed in filtered water, or lamb mince cooked in the same way. Her food is also supplimented with raw veg blitzed in the blender (anything from apple to carrot to broccoli). She loves this, but refuses to eat chicken at all now. She has been doing well since the change, but it was heart-breaking to see her so ill. I think just finding the right food that gets your dog to puton weight again and which doesn't cause diegestive problems really is the battle with the rest just being general maintenence.