Can I just ask a quickie, in my endless forever search around the web, researching on DOgs, it appears that Many, many, puppies are bred in wales, and many of the rehoming places, are in and around wales,

I know that not all breeders in wales are puppy farmers, but how come thier are so many, or does it just appear that way?

There is quite a few puppy farmers in wales.

Susan

im in mid-wales there are a couple nearby but many more in the south valleys, i think its due to the rural areas- they can breed out of sight and sound..

Well it would be interesting if you could point them out to me, I live in the South and know of only one puppy farm, and that's more Swansea/Cardiff way.   Many of the Adverts in our local Yellow pages give contact numbers for Manchester, Birmingham, Liverpool etc

Surely those in the Yellow Pages are the re-sellers that buy their stock FROM the puppy farmers?

It would be impossible to know where the dogs come from in the Yellow pages without ringing them all up, but I'm willing to bet every Yellow pages or similar in Britain has just the same number of similar adverts ;)   I'm not saying we don't have puppy farms here, just wondering where they are ;)  and find it interesting to state that there aren't any in mid wales.  In actual fact there is more likelyhood for them to be hidden in Mid Wales than the South Wales Valleys, population density is far greater here in the Valleys and people tend to know more about their neighbours in this region.  'Back Yard Breeders' are more likely here :(  and I know of a few of those, but full scale puppy farms?  

In actual fact the contact numbers for the ads in this weeks pages are located mostly in West wales, Mid wales and England.

there ARE pup farms here- i didnt deny that.

one of the clients at work is setting up a rescue, and shes always coming in with news of more pups that are from these pup farms- dont think she goes as far south as cardiff/swansea though.

once more, i didnt state that there arent any in mid-wales.

isnt that puppy farm that supplied 'goods' for harrods located in south wales? cant remember..

Just a point on this post All  Puppy Farmers that have been successfully
prosecuted over the last 25 years have been Incomers who have bought
cheap property's ,  In fact at this time I believe 85 per cent of the Puppy farms
are still run by Incomers. I speak from experience having been involved with
all canine activity's in Wales over the last 35 years, including Breed Rescue.

I really can't see the relevence of the origins of the puppy farmers themselves! The fact that they are running puppy farms at all is the issue, whether they are Welsh,Irish, English or Mongolian doesn't make the slightest difference at all to the poor dogs does it?

no not at all, it doesnt help. but that was the topic that the poster had started

Can I end this thread now!

Did not want to offend anyone, as i said it just appeared as i was trotting around the dog rescue pages, that many dogs seemed to in the wales area, according to those sites. Also lots of ads in our local paper in the South East have ads from Wales.  It was just an observation no more than that.

Tanya

Schanauzerseeker,

From what you've written, I have a feeling that puppy farmers must advertise outside of their own areas ;)  Helps keep their location details away from the people who live locally and would try to get them closed down/ put people off buying from them  :rolleyes: :(

Thinking about Glenhafod's point on Incomers, this would make things much easier for them, after all, in Wales people tend to know all about their neighbours/families/friends - something like having a puppy farm would soon get about and make them deeply unpopular - much easier if no-one knows you, or anything about you and your business.

no there was no harm in posting that observation! ive noticed the same thing- esp the number of rescues in wales, lots of lurchers i think,quite sad looking at all those pages of unwanted dogs- bet youve been more than tempted!

The topic was the number of puppy farms in Wales, not whether the people running them were Welsh, English or maybe just plain old British. I'm sure it is much easier to be a puppy farmer in a rural area -for all I know, there could be any number of puppy farms in my locality, if they sell away, how would anyone know? We have 3 rescue centres within about a 15 mile radius, none of them very big, but I would say most of the dogs in them are just a result of careless breeding - sheepdogs & collie Xs mostly, rather than deliberately farmed.

England picks up a large  majority of the rescue dogs that are bred on puppy farms in Wales or Ireland.  The puppy farmers supply all the pet shops, the public buy the pups often on impulse then find that they cannot cope for one reason or another and the puppy/young dog ends up in rescue, either directly or indirectly.
The reason why the puppy farmers are not found out to be operating illegally (there are many that are licensed too supplying pet shops) is because they have a direct contact with an outlet through the dealer network, many of the larger ones do not even need to advetise.  When they sell their pups to a pet shop most are sold with just a pedigree with nothing more tht a breeders name on it and if they use, as most do, that registration company fthat likes to make up registrations to your liking,  it often does not even relate to the breeder or the puppy in question. That is what both puppy farmers and pet shops like they work in tango with each other, cover each others tracks so neither is found out - or so they would like to think.
There  are an awful lot of people supplying the pet shops, hidden away in rural areas all helping each other to not be found out.       

I think historically that farmers were encouraged to diversify to make ends meet and with being often located in remote areas dog breeding seemed a godo business, and bred like sheep or catle.  As we know breeding dogs is different as they are bred to live closely with us, not to become our Sunday dinner.

i have never seen a pup in a petshop for about the last 15 years, except in spain. so where are these petshops that sell pups??

Start with Harrods and work down :D

There are two very large one that are more like supermarkets, in Manchester and Blackpol, and many other smaller oens up and down the country.

http://mysite.freeserve.com/puppy_alert/index.htm
Try this website and click onto pet shops it should bring up a list. Not all will be recognised as pet shops but all will have a pet shop licence to enable them to buy in and resell puppies. Some are known as breeding kennels and have a dog breeders licence too.

To answer your oringinal question, the reason why there are so many puppy farmers in Wales is because one approved practice for National Assembly Farming Connect grants offered to farmers to diversify, is dog breeding.

I quote, "This scheme includes the "Farm Enterprise Grant" under which the breeding of dogs is eligible for capital works such as kennelling and exercise yards." :(

gosh- didnt know that! thats awful, encouraging breeding all for the wrong reasons... :(

To answer your oringinal question, the reason why there are so many puppy farmers in Wales is because one approved practice for National Assembly Farming Connect grants offered to farmers to diversify, is dog breeding.

Interesting & as the majority puppy farms have been in existance before the above was offered why do they exist ??

I will tell you why The land & property was cheap & in most cases remote so thay could operate outside the Breeders licence regs & they are not usually run by real farmers at all & many are not Welsh & some not even British

There haven't been many take ups on the dog breeding funds I can't remember the figures but they are on the welsh assembly site somewhere

Hi you are correct in your post,Moonmaiden
There were PUPPY FARMERS long before,
I do not think any  Welsh Farmer  as taken out a Grant
as yet I may be wrong,
There were lots of Demo's at the time  in Cradiff  about
the stupid offer the Welsh assembly came up with.

well- now im confused! i thought that farmers had always done this..

Don't confuse farmers (in an agricultural sense) with puppy farmers....

no im not, my fathers a farmer so i know what makes a good farmer. ;)

there are good and bad farmers, like everything in life really.

For sure, most of the farmers round here have embraced "diversification" - they need to in order to survive. But not a one of them has diversified into puppy farming since:

1. It isn't "farming" as they know it and it certainly isn't ethical farming.

2. There's much more money to be made out of "Pat the Lamb - Only £3.50" :D

ROFLMAO Roz plus they can eat/sell/breed the lambs later on ;)