i have a 5 month old yorkie and my parents have the same breed but she is 9 ,everytime i take the puppy round there house the pup wont stop barking at her dog we used a water bottle to spray the pup  andit worked for a while, but now the barking as got worse she wont stop all the time we are there can any one give me any advice on how to stop this

It's best to try and work out why the barking is happening - are you all with the dogs when it happens? Is the pup excited, over excited, worried, wanting to play, fearful, etc.
Once you know what is happening and why, you will be more likely to be able to solve the problem :)

Lindsay
x

yes i think the pup wants to play but being the other dog is 9 she just wants to sit so dont no what to do

Sorry if I have got your post wrong....but my pup is 5 months too, and the only way we found to stop her barking at older dogs was to allow the older dog to tell her off. My brother has an enormous Bassett Hound, and when we went round to visit, my pup went loopy, jumping on his back, barking etc. Eventually he let out this really loud deep bark, and Tansy nearly pooed herself. It was actually very funny, but she then started to calm down. I don't know if you are stopping the pup going to your mum's dog? I think your mum's dog will probably let your pup know that it is being rude!! Best of luck

My pup is also 5 months old and a similar thing happens with an older dog he meets quite regularly on walks. The older dog is very friendly and likes to play but on his terms. So when he's had all the play he wants with the pup he just lets out one deep bark which seems to say "Enough!" because it has the effect of Nipper calming down and leaving him alone.

At this age pups need to learn "doggy body language" and they seem to learn it best from friendly elders rather than humans!

Hi tisha -

Some questions:

Did your puppy meet many other puppies/dogs when she was below 18 weeks old?

Does she appear to be barking as afraid, or barking out of excitement and wanting to play?

I would really advise you not to use a water spray.  This is not a very nice method of achieving anything, and as you can see, it doesn't work.  You need to find the reason why she is barking and deal with that, not complicate things by using aversive methods.

The thing is - a dog only does things it finds rewarding in some way.  So there must be something rewarding your dog's barking.  Do you give her attention when she barks?  Do you all say to her "oh, be quiet" or similar kind of things?  Even negative attention is rewarding to some dogs.

So, the first thing I would suggest is for you all to ignore her.  It sounds like your parent's dog is doing just that, which is great.  I really would let her bark for an hour or more, to learn that nothing happens when she barks anymore and that she doesn't get attention any more for it.  Don't even look at her when she barks.

If that doesn't work, and you've all been really strict and no one has even looked at her, then it might be that she's finding the barking itself rewarding, which is a bit more problematic.  Let us know if that happens and I'll suggest some more things then.

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the only that worries us is yes the older dog barks at the pup but she also turns on her as if she would bite the pup do you think she could attack the pup

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Well she certainly could attack the pup but it doesn't mean that she will. How does the older dog behave when she turns on the pup? Does she growl? Is her stance threatening? And has she ever actually bitten the pup?

the older dog sometimes tends to want to get away from the pup, but the pup just keeps going up to her and barking i think to play ,so the older dog will give a growl then the puppy will back down .then goes back up to the older one then when the older one as had enough she tends to turn on  the pup .  a couple of times we have had to step in as it looks s the older dog has biten the puppy

Make sure you give the older dog plenty of 'time out'; one-to-one attention from you away from the puppy. After all, your dog didn't decide to turn life upside down, and has a lot of adjusting to do! Don't tell the older dog off for putting the puppy in its place - the older dog must take priority.

after reading your post again I notice that its a visiting puppy they dont actually live together.

I would also keep pup on a lead so that he cant annoy the older boy too much.
As he is in his house he shouldnt have to put up with being harrassed with a puppy bouncing all over him.

We had a similar problem when we got our pup (now13m) and we also had our old boy sadly now at rainbow Bridge we would let pup see him in the morning and she would kiss him all over (he enjoyed that)then when she began to climb all over him he wasnt interested (who could blame him) he would go and lie in his quiet place and pup would stay in the room with us and he was quite happy with that then once she had tired herself out playing he would appear again just to sit quietly in our company.

I wouldnt let pup annoy him... try giving them both a chew bone each (before the barking starts or he will see it as a reward) supervised as usually they want what the other has got and that can cause arguments too I usually give them in seperate rooms keeps them occupied for a little while.

roni

I don't know how practical this is - like how far away your parents' house is or how long you visit - but do you have to take your pup with you every time? Only the 9 year old deserves some quiet time in his own house and it must make for a very stressful visit for you all! I'm sure your pup will calm down with age but unless you can separate the two in a way that doesn't put the "house dog" out of place I'd either leave yours at home occasionally or at least bring chews or other tasty distractions with you.

Hi Tisha

Ok, well from what you first said, it sounded like the older dog was totally ignoring the puppy, but obviously that's not the case.

This is one of those instances where it's really hard to advise online, because we can't all see what's happening and words can only describe so much.  However...

It's important that the older dog can get some peace and quiet when she wants to. 

Secondly, sometimes it's ok for puppies to be told to "shut up and go away" by an older dog, as long as the dog doing the telling-off has excellent dog-social skills.  By that I mean that you don't want a dog which goes in and rips a chunk off your puppy.  On the other hand, the telling-off has to be strong enough to be effective for that particular puppy.  So the dog doing the telling-off has to judge how "strong" to make the telling off. 

You say that it LOOKS like the older dog has bitten the puppy some times.  But have you ever actually seen any physical damage done to the pup?  And how does the pup react once the older dog has done this "big time" telling off?  Does the pup finally shut up and leave the older dog alone?

Last question - apart from this older dog, what other dogs does your puppy play with, and do you take the puppy to a training class?

no the older hasnt bite the pup but as turned to but we have stepped in so not sure if she would  .well today took the pup around again from the time we walked in the pup started barking we played with a ball with both dogs for a while which they was enjoying but still with the pup barking then the older dog started to bark so we had them both barking but after a while the older did stop ,but of course the puppy didnt did put the pup in another room for a little time out but as soon as we let her out again barking just dont no what to do to help stop the barking  no the pup as only been around this dog no puupy classes in my area

Might sound a bit harsh and others might not agree with me, but I would probably return the pup to the other room as soon as she started barking again and leaving her alone there (with toys etc) for a short period, then trying again.  I'm sure if you do this she will understand pretty quickly that she will only be allowed to stay with the older dog and the rest of the family if she is prepared to be reasonably quiet.

Good luck with sorting this out Tisha - I know just how wearing constant barking can be.

I would not be stepping in to precent the older dog from telling the youngster off properly.  It has shown plenty of restraint so sounds like it would do no more than tell it properly, that is how the pup will learn not to pester it's elders.  It may sound as if he wants to eat him but you will find it will just have the pup submit and you should then find pup being ar more respectful.  By stepping in too fast and not backing the older dog up you are undermining it's authority, and also not teaching your pup manners.  It may then meat a bigger and less tolerant aduot who may not be as restrained, and get hurt.

If this is the only dog that your pup socialises with then I'm not entirely surprised she gets so over excited. Is it possible for you to meet more dogs on your walks, perhaps?

Hi Brainless,  Trouble is some older dogs don't always seem to want to tell puppies off or don't do it effectively.  It does sound like the older dog in this case has had plenty of opportunity to correct the pup.  I have an goldie who is 13 and a goldie pup of 8 months.  If Oscar, the oldie, gets fed up with the pup, he does bark and growl at him constantly but the pup seems to realise Oscar is no real challenge and ignores him.  I therefore feel I have to step in and separate them to prevent poor Oscar from being harrassed and me from reaching screaming pitch with the constant barking!  Have to say that Angus, the pup, soon backs off if other dogs challenge him so I don't think it is just him being too stroppy.  Think my old boy just doesn't tell him off with enough conviction :(.

Sorry but you older dog is being quite normal & doesn't need to be overtly aggressive towards the puppy when he has had enoough

The adults in all animals are extremely tolerant of youngsters if you keep intervening you are lowering the adult's standing. My GSD is 10 & a very alpha bitch yet she allows the puppy & litlle dogs lots of leeway until she decides she has had enough & then it stops. My BC's(male) when in middle age used to run from any puppies we had as they just didn't want to interact with them. With the Cavaliers the youngest one tended not to play with puppies but the older ones did & yes the puppies barked inviting the older ones to play. It's part of the puppies learning curve & if you intervene you can lead your puppy to misinterpret body language & stance in other dogs he meets

Interested to read about your male BC'' reaction, Moonmaiden. Because that's precisely the experience at my breeder's home where an older male half brother simply won't have anything to do with the pups. He's not the slightest bit aggressive just totally disenchanted and puts space between him and them! An older bitch, however, is happy to play but any pup silly enough to push their luck is reminded of their manners. As you say, it's all part of the learning curve and it is important not to intervene too quickly lest the pup never learns.

Hi Moonmaiden,  I understand what you are saying but still feel I can't just leave Oscar to be constantly pestered - Angus just doesn't stop and becomes too rough with his play.  Oscar needs lots of rest these days, especially after his stroke at Christmas.  I feel he needs my support and I've always understood that if you remove the puppy and not the older dog, that in fact reinforces the older dog's position.  If the age gap was less, I would probably be much more inclined to leave them to sort things out.  I also think bitches are much better at saying 'enough is enough' than male dogs :).  As I said before, Angus has no problems reacting to other dogs and reading their body language and will back off instantly if challenged so I don't feel I'm causing any problems there.  By the way, it isn't Angus who is barking - it is poor Oscar, clearly trying to say GET OFF ME because he is trying to run away at the same time :(.

I would suggest diverting rather than intervention ie the training discs or squeaky toy or simply calling him(the puppy) to play. Very old dogs are very very tolerant believe me I had a very elderly bitch (she died aged over 19)& she was brilliant with the puppies allowing them to dive all over her & yes she did bark(was found to be deaf BTW)when she had had enough but alos to get them to start to play as well

If you physically intervene ie get hold of the puppy & remove it is this that lowers the older dogs standing as you are in a way telling the puppy, Oscar cannot stop you so I will. I would definitely work on calling the puppy away & to gain control of him if neceaasary remove him from the room but preferably not by physically get hold of him

Time perhaps for a little of what we obedience people call armchair training of your puppy doing recalls for treats or toy that he plays with you with. This would teach him he can have your attention & fun without bothering the old boy

Thanks for the advice, I will give it a go :).  I'm probably just really protective of Oscar, I think probably because I have some guilt feelings about lumbering him with a puppy at his old age when he had had me to himself all his life.

Hi Tisha

I think this is your call.  If you are worried that the older dog might harm the pup, and you believe that is a possibility, then I think you should step in.  No one here can watch this particular interaction so we can't say for sure if the older dog looks like it might harm the pup (and even if we could watch it, no one could know for sure).  It would be horrible for us to advise you to just leave them to it, and then you come back here in 2 weeks and tell us that the older dog bit your pup - we'd all feel very responsible then.

So, what I think I would do is this:

Every time your pup starts barking at the older dog, AS FAST AS POSSIBLE, grab the pup (not roughly, just fast), and put her out in another room.  Watch the clock for one minute.  If the pup starts to bark to come back in again, ignore it, and just keep waiting as long as it takes for the pup to be quiet.  Then let the pup back in.  If the pup barks again, back outside IMMEDIATELY.

The key to this working is:

It MUST happen every single time the pup barks at the older dog, every single time.  You must react as though it is an emergency and leap up and put the pup out.  You must be consistent and everyone in the household must help - whoever is nearest to the pup puts the pup out asap.  You might need to do this 20,30 or 40 times before the pup learns and stops barking.

Do not let the pup in if it is barking or making a noise, because that just rewards the noise and you will have more of it, not less.

If at any time the pup comes back in and looks at the older dog and decides not to bark, you should all praise the puppy and give a food treat.

I agree that you really should be taking your puppy to classes.  At classes your puppy will meet lots of other dogs and this will be good for the pup growing up friendly towards other dogs, and will also be good because it will get your puppy used to being around other dogs and then she won't be as excited to see your parents' dog.  Whereabouts do you live, maybe someone here knows of a class in your area?  If not, have a look at this site for a list of kind trainers all over the UK: www.apdt.co.uk

It's the older dog that is barking(he has had a stroke) & Trisha is worryied the younger one is pestering the older dog too much & that the old chap can't tell him off firmly enough just the opposite in fact to worrying the older dog might hurt the puppy

Hang on Moonmaiden, you're muddling me and Tisha up :D.  It's my dog who has had the stroke, not Tisha's parents' dog :)

Oops teach me to read all the pots not the last ones ;)