Hi I have just got my long awaited boxer Jake, he is 10 weeks old and i have had him for a couple of weeks now, i am puting him in a crate overnight and then he is in it for no longer than 4 hours during the day, i dont work full time so he gets lots of attention from me and i am regulary at home during the day, things have been going ok, he has been going the toliet outside 50% of the time and 50% of the time indoors!!, which is to be expected, but i have this problem that when i leave him in his room which is quite big and  his crate is in there aswell, im only gone for 2 seconds to do something upstairs, and he goes the toilet on the floor whines and barks as though he is seeking attention. this i can handle which i think is normal puppy behaviour but the last 2 days when i have put him in the crate he has done the same which is unusual as he hasnt done it before and seems to just go the toilet when im out of his sight.  is there anything i can do to encourage him to say im not gone for long as, i cant even walk to the shop for 1 minute and he has pooped on the floor!, im wondering where it has all come from cos i dont overfeed him!.  any help would be appreciated as i may be doing it all wrong ,i am new to owning a dog and this may all be part of the course but i have registered on this site to get advise as there seems to be a lot of it! . i would appreciate any comments.

thanks  Gary

Seems like seperation anxiety , and throuhg all the stress his gut reaction is to poop. Does he like food? Fill a kong with treats , pnut butter anything he likes and that'll keep him busy for a while. At this age they are still very clingly (your the mom) and the way he's reacting to you being gone isn't uncommon.
It also wouldn't be uncommon for him to be pooping more then normal , if the stool looks healthy. 4-6 times a day is usually average for puppys just remember to take him out when it looks like hes sniffing around and looking uncomfortable. good luck!

PS. tire him out before crating him for the night

I toilet train a puppy putting them outside after every meal  before and after play and then every 20-30 mins throughout the day when I am at home.

I have usually house trained them within a week give or take so the constant training pays off in the end as exhausting as it may be.

He sounds to me as if he is suffering from a little separation anxiety I would leave him periodically for very short periods starting at 30 second and building it up coming in and out but no paying him attention every time I entered the room.

Try giving him a stuffed kong to entertain him with when you need to leave him in a room alone for a few minutes.
Personally I always put a young pup in the crate or kitchen when I need to go up stairs etc as they can cause a lot of damage to your furniture or themselves in a v. short period of time!

Hi Gary

I wouldn't jump to any conclusions yet, such as it being separation anxiety.  True separation anxiety is very extreme and a huge problem and seeing as this pup is just 10 wks, I would find it very unlikely for him to have separation anxiety yet.

Let me ask you some more questions first.  Please don't be offended but...

Have you ever/do you reprimand him when you see him messing inside?  What do you usually do when you see him messing?  Or when you find the poop?

Do you shout at him?  Do you scruff him?  Do you do ANYTHING he wouldn't like at all to him?

I ask you this because what you describe (a pup which toilets the minute your back is turned) is common when people punish dogs for toileting inside.  This is because the dog doesn't learn what you want him to learn (don't toilet inside), he learns "I must not toilet when other people are watching because then they punish me". 

His barking and whining once he has messed could also be anxiety because he knows a punishment is coming when you find the mess.

Now, this is just one possible interpretation of what's happening, and we can't know for sure until you return and tell us more.

So - tell us - what have you been doing when you find mess?

(You should just be ignoring it and cleaning it up.  When he toilets outside you should be giving him a food treat.  You should have a tub of food treats by the door and just grab them on the way out.  Praise him while he toilets outside and then give him a treat as soon as he's finished (within 1 second of finishing - before you pick it up.  He needs to learn that when he goes inside nothing happens, but when he goes outside he gets a treat.).

Hi thanks so far,

at first i was told to say no, then take him to the garden to finish off what he started and looks like he is sorry for what he has done which i thought was quite a good result in him knowing that its not the place to go to toilet inside, BUT this like you said may be his way of being scared and i dont want to teach him this way( i hope its not to late to satrt again)  i have thought about doing the treat thing and went to my local pet store and bought some treats for puppys but it says on the back that you can only give him 4 treats per day for a pup his age, so i thought it would be pointless to give him treats only half the time he does his toilets, i was going to wait until he can have treats in his diet regulary, this may be the wrong thing to do so i will try and ignore the fact he's done toilet inside and ill try and stretch out the 4 treats over the day and give him a treat for toileting outside. is this a better souloution.?  i may have my work cut out because he was the last one to leave the litter and the bredder said she was a bit clingy with him and handled him a lot when she was at home and took him everywhere she went in the house etc etc, so im hoping he hasnt got this seperation anxiety.

cheers

HI,
when you take him out to toilet use a word of phrase that you plan to use continually I use "be a good girl" when they have had a pee/poo then give lots of over enthusiastic praise and a big cuddle then treat you could use part of his normal meal if you dry feed just measure out the amount for the day and keep it seperate and remember to give a little less for the daily quota.
Personally I dont treat after toileting I find a big cuddle is sufficient its entirely up to you.

In the house you can tell when they are about to pee/poo as they sniff the floor and walk around in a circle if you make a noise I use "quick quick" then guide them to the door and quickly outside they can learn really fast that you want them to go outside.

My girls now tap me and sit away from me to let us know they need to go out.

I agree with onetwothree advice on not getting annoyed with a puppy for going inside they only want to please you its best to just ignore it and clean up.
SA was just a suggestion for his behaviour not a diagnosis so dont worry about it so much just enjoy him they seem to grow up so fast and you miss the puppy stage with the blink of an eye.

good luck
HTH

Roni

Re the treat - I don't mean you should give a treat for toileting for the rest of the dog's life - just while he's being toilet trained.  Once he knows where to go (and goes there ALL the time), then stop the treat and just praise.  I find the treat's a good idea because it helps to make a bigger difference between what happens if dog toilets inside (nothing) and what happens outside (yummy treat), so the dog learns quicker.

Well said Roni so true you do miss the puppy phase so fast.  Stick to the rules sticking him outside after feeding, play, sleep and you can't go far wrong.  Dont be to quick to diagnose he's only a baby of ten weeks he's very much learning and all dogs learn at different speeds just like children.  Dont be to hasty be patient and i'm sure he'll learn in his own time.  All the best

Warm regards Susan

Don't let housetraining get YOU down because the pup will soon pick up on any anxieties. Just take him out more often than you'd ever think necessary and be absolutely full of praise when he performs outside. I don't use treats myself but if they help get the idea across then that's the most important thing. You don't need to buy special puppy treats either, use a tasty morsel of anything he likes to eat.

The secret is to be thrilled to bits when he performs in the garden and laid back about the times when he doesn't!

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Hi Gary

Firstly - dogs don't think like people.  They don't feel regret or guilt or sorry for doing something, they just feel fear.  They're not that complex emotionally, so don't start ascribing human feelings to them because this is actually harder on the dog.  I mean - you project that the dog knows what it's doing, and because of that projection, you punish - when the dog never knew what it was doing anyway and all you're doing is confusing the poor dog and making it afraid of you and/or afraid of toileting.  If you are ever, ever, ever unsure that the dog knows what you mean, never ever punish.  (And even then, punishment is rarely the solution.)  (And by punishment I'm including you saying "No", because if you yell that, a lot of pups would be scared, which would make it a punishment.)

So when you say: he "looks like he is sorry for what he has done which i thought was quite a good result in him knowing that its not the place to go to toilet inside" - WOAH!!

He doesn't look like he's sorry for what he's done, he just knows he's done SOMETHING wrong because of your behaviour, not what it is.  You are making him afraid, and it's hard for any animal (or person) to learn something if they are afraid.  If he knew that he shouldn't toilet inside, then he wouldn't be. 

Right, so forget that he knows anything at all - he knows diddley squat, as demonstrated by the fact that he's still pooing on the floor.

About the treat thing:  Firstly, the treats you buy at the pet shop are probably not the best treats to give him.  Usually highly processed treats include sugar, colours, preservatives etc PLUS they are expensive if you're going to use them regularly.

It's much better to use VERY SMALL pieces of hotdog sausage or cheese.  It's been proven that dogs don't mind how big or how small a treat is, just that they get one, full stop.  So, if you're worried about how many treats you're giving, just give smaller bits.  Hotdogs/cheese will work out a lot cheaper than buying from the pet shop too.

No, forget about only giving him a treat sometimes - you have to give a treat every single time the behaviour occurs when a dog is learning a new behaviour.  This goes for any behaviour, from sit, to speak on command to "toilet outside".  When the dog really knows the behaviour well and gets it right every time, then you move onto what's called a variable reinforcement schedule, which basically means just giving a treat some of the time, random times.  But, for now, while he doesn't know what he's doing, give one every single time.  But if you're worried about giving that many, make them smaller. 

Don't worry about the breeder saying he was a bit clingy etc - you have to work with what you've got now, and that doesn't help except to worry you more. 

great thanks for all the advise, i will take it all on board in a positive way, as after all he is not the only one thats new in this experience!, the whole family is mucking in and although at the mo we cant seem to see a light at the end of the tunnel with the litter training i know for sure it will all be good in the end, just cant wait to take him for walkies once he has his injection on friday then ill take him for his first walk a week later, he has a new friend waiting for him,  my best friend has just got a british bulldog pup called harvey (now 16 weeks) and i have been going round with jakes blankets to get used to his smell so they can get used to each other when they finally meet.  As far as the treat thing is concerned i tried it straight after reading these posts and he seemed very excited that he was getting a treat for going the toilet which can only be a good sign, but again he did poop while i popped out for an hour even though he went just before i left, so its still a  working progress, i didnt say anything just cleaned up got on with it, its just problem because he's doing it in his crate which i would like him to not use it as his toilet.

he's fast asleep in his room now and its been a good day today only a couple of mishaps,

the kids have tired him out so much today so he's very tired and happy to be on his own for once!.

thanks

ps. he has had diorreah last week but this has cleared up now with medication perscribed by the vet and just thought id add this in incase it may be something to do with his food (beta) making him go the toilet more often than he should.  i weigh out the right amounts and he gets fed 3 times a day on which i was told by the breeder.  might it be to rich?? sorry more questions!!

Hi Gary! As your pup is only 10 weeks old he should really still be given four meals a day, not three. It could be that giving him his food in larger amounts is overloading his tummy. Try putting him back to four smaller meals and see if that helps.

Provided his tummy has settled down, if you put him on four small meals which are fed to him at the same time every day you should soon see a pattern to his poo routine. He won't exactly go like clockwork but he will develop a fairly predictable reliability over the next couple of weeks!

also with him having an upset tum make sure that your not over feeding him  just that little bit too much can make such a difference with how much they go to the toilet and the difference between a normal poo and diahorrea .
Roni

Hi Gary - when you take him to meet the British bulldog, make sure you supervise their play.  They should be equally playing - one chasing the other, then the other one chasing back.  If one of them is always chasing and the other always running away, that's not good and you should have a time out and pick them up.  It is better for them to play for short periods with lots of breaks.  So, give them a few minutes to play, then pick them up for 10 mins.  Then a few minutes play, then pick them up again.  That way you don't give the play time to get too rough or unequal.

What are you cleaning the poop up with in his crate?  Don't use bleach or anything which contains ammonia, because ammonia is a substance in wee and to a dog, bleach just smells like a toilet.  The best thing to use is biological washing liquid - that will digest the enzymes in wee so he can't smell that it's a toilet any more.

I wouldn't feed Beta, but if he's happy on it and so are you happy feeding it, then that's fine.  If his poo problems continue then you might want to consider changing his food, because it could be that he's intolerant of an ingredient in it.

"the kids have tired him out so much today so he's very tired and happy to be on his own for once!"

Hi!
Just a quick reminder; pups need lots of time for rest and sleep. Undisturbed sleep. Pups grow while they sleep, lack of sleep can be very stressful. Stress can show up as an upset tummy, or worse. Make sure your children are aware of this, it's up to you to monitor their play.
Hope everything is going in the right direction,
Karen

ERM :rolleyes:OK, DIDNT MEAN THEY DO IT ALL THE TIME JUST THAT TIME, BUT THANKS ANYWAY

HIS POO HAS BEEN FINE TODAY IVE SPACED OUT HIS MEALS MORE AND GAVE HIM 4 MEALS RARTHER THEN 3 AS SUGGESTED AND SEEMS TO HAVE WORKED, THANKS EVERYONE

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