A friend of mine appears to have the child from hell, they thinkit could be AHDS or something similar. anyone have similar experience. or interpration of the above?>?????? Oh and whaty does it stand for

I think it may be Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) or attention deficit disorder (ADD) - more can be found here

How old is the child by the way ?

ADHD Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder.  If confirmed these children needs lots of attention and great deal of input from parents and schools.  They can do very well if they are given the right type of attention

They have a very short attention span which means they fidget all the time and can't concentrate on any one thing for any length of time.  This means that they tend to seem very naughty.  Thing to remember is it's not their fault and they are frustrated (always in trouble) and not happy, it's confusing for them as well as distruptive for everyone they have contact with.

Diet manipulation can be of a great help too if it is ADHD rather than just being out of control.............

Doctors aren't sure if my son has ADHD.....At the moment they say his condition is EBD (Emotional Behaviour difficulties) he is on medication to help keep his behaviour under control (Ritalin)

If you need any more advice please pm me....and i'll try and help :-)

Thanks every one for your replies, it is much appreciated

Cheryl you have just described my #3 son to a T - here's the report we got from his Ed. Pysch only today: G deomonstrated some incompliant behaviour, needed Teacher direction and prompts to focus his attention to the task.
G continues to shout out answers rather than raise his hand as asked
He is easily distracted in a class situation and is distracting to peers.
Chooses to laugh and talk with friends rather than becoming involved in the activity.
Doesn't often sit still, prefers to wander around the room.
Works to his own agenda, will often only do things on his own terms.
Language skills are good at home, meticulous for detail when he is interested and engaged in a chose project.
Generally compliant at home, although listening skills are not always good, easily distracted at home also.
Bullying at school is still an issue...........

He's currently reading Artemis Fowl which is aimed at 10-12 year olds - he's 8!  Last year I was told his reading was giving cause for concern......

But will they acknowledge he has any kind of condition they can recognise and so modify teaching techniques?  Will they h*ll!  I've been pursuing this since he was about 4 years old - he's now 8 and a half!

I had a.d.d. as a child , was on ritilin. For a look at a severe case of adhd the movie -Freddy got fingered- , horrible yet entertaining.

Have they tried cutting out ALL E numbers?????
,my youngest was a devil child. no concentration span, even violence, throwing chairs, pushing things over in shops etc etc (my eldest is the complete opposite and if  hadnt had him I would have thought I was the worst parent in the world.).
I took out ALL Enumbers and he changed over night to a completely different child. You wouldnt believe it if you hadnt seen the transformation.Went from Devil child constantly highly strung to a nice child that wouldnt hurt a fly and would concentrate over night.
Alot of people say they have taken all enumbers oiut of their diet but they still feed them processed foods that do have enumbers in. (which is my pet hate when they say they dont give their children Enumbers but you look and see them drinking very cheao orange squash and eating Mars bars!!!!!) And products hide e numbers under their chemical name. so just because it doesnt have E120 on it It may have  -  Cochineal (carmine cochineal,carminic acid which is EXACTLy the same thing just using the chemical name instead of the E number.
i took sam to a dietician and she said she couldnt tell me anymore than I already had done!!!!!!!! As I had done so much research I had already got all the info and done everything she would have advised!!!
A good book is E for additives. Tells you everything. Can give you the ISBN number if you want.
If you want i can send you a list that gives the E numbers that contribute to hyperactivity. There are about 30 of them and I have the comprehensive list if anyone wants it :D
HTH
Lea :)

The problem is when is an E number not an E number?  Even the simplest thing (such as Bicarb) has an E number :(

Thats why you have to research!!!
Yes i agree when i started it was a mine field. As even natural products Have an e number.
There is alot of information on it now and as i say i can supply a list of Enumbers that should be cut completely out of a hyperactive childs diet as standard and then reintroduced one by one. I believe after seeing the reasults for myself, this should be done before anything else is looked into.
Lea :)

I thought cochineal was a natural product made of the dried and pulverized bodies of female cochineal insects whereas E numbers are not

I know that the production of natural cochineal is very expensive so it has been replaced by synthetic products but surely if they say cochineal then it is cochineal and not the synthetic product ?

Many every day foods would carry E numbers if the regulations required it, it is nothing to do with synthetic anything it is simply certain chemicals that have been identified in this way, they can occur anywhere, in fruits, insects ;) you name it :)
BTB there are about 300 additives licenced for use in food in the UK all but about 10 of them are exact or copy chemicals from nature.

That might explain why men like red lipstick then ;) :D

Ummmm not sure what you mean Are you saying they are drawn to E numbers or insects

LOL - the E numbers :D 

Cochineal -Yep it is taken from Pregnant scale insects (Dactilopius coccus) which feed on specific cacti. They come from central america,
Taken from the book, E for additives by Maurice Hanson
This is one of the food colours which the hyperactivity childrens sup[port group recommends should be excluded from the diet of children it represents................

So Natural is not always good.
Also Orange juice has natural amounts of Tartrazine in it. so if your child is 'allergic' to Tartrazin, then even given them oranges can set them off. In which case giving them Orange juice everyday, even natural orange juice can make them constantly hyperactive.
(Cant you tell i have been into this soooo much LOL)
I will also add that I have seen Sam go from a gentle child after a few years of having no E numbers to having a very colourful sweet and being the devil child worse than he was ever before within 10 minutes of eating the sweet. Half an hour later he was back to being 'Sam' again So know for deffinate it is the Enumbers that cause Sam to be the way he was. And it was suggested before I took him off E numbers that he may have something like ADHD by health visitors So the change is anormous.
HTH
Lea :)

Presumably the Ed Psych is attached to the school so you should start getting some help.  Problems that might come there are whether the school is 100% prepared to put into action any recommendations.  The reluctance is often down to money because what might be suggested is one to one help.  It's not really surprising that your son is better at home than at school because he is getting better one to one interaction whereas teachers have a whole class to deal with which is difficult enough without a child that is distracting everyone else.  From what I understand children with ADHD will do much better if they are given lots of attention/direction and positive feedback.  Very difficult for teachers with little training and time to do this so if your son does have ADHD push for a class helper that can sit with him and keep him focused.

I think one of the biggest problems is that ADHD children are misunderstood and are quickly labelled as naughty.  Even though they seem to be disruptive it's not deliberate, they can't help it.

I don't know how the statementing of children works now but that might be the route to push for, because I think (not sure) the school might get funding for extra help if the child is statemented.  Unfortunately you have to stamp your feet and make yourself a bit of a pest to get anything done these days.  :rolleyes:

edited: oh yeah what the others are saying about diet is valid point too.

Libs can you give us the age and what they get upto as it makes a difference to determine AHDS.

I guess you have met the said monster ;)

Lucy
xx

The aforementioned ickle monster is 14yrs old, and seems to have no or little respect for authority :rolleyes: Despite various warnings, and he is an intelligent boy, continues with this anti-social behaviour, esp towards people inauthority...teachers etc.
Yes I have met the young critter and he was charming, with perfect manners, difficult to believe we are talking about the same child really.

Has he had the problem since he was 2 ish and beyond or just when the Kevin Years happened ? :)

I'm not too sure when it first started, but I will find out. It does seem as if  this kind of behaviour has been going on for some time tho:rolleyes:
The parents have approached his school, and the school recognize this boy has problems 'anger management' being one of them, but they seem unable or unwilling to help any further; his parents are at their wits end and are looking to see what else they can do to help the said monster ;)

Anymore sibling monsters in disguise ? :)

Lol no he is an only child, for which I think his parents are very grateful :D

Libs NOT AHDS PM me :D

Have you found out what it is?  I am intrigued now, don't keep us in suspense

They need to do what digger's school appears to have done and that is get the child properly assessed and diagnosed.  Problem with a child of this age is that he has probably spent all his school days being moaned at and disciplined.  He might be labelled as a trouble maker and now he has slipped into that persona (self fulfilling prophecy).  If he has got ADHD and it has been left this long his poor parents must be going through absolute h*ll.  Of course he is angry (if this is ADHD) he has every right to be angry, he has likely been 'got at' most of his school life and he hasn't been in control of his own behaviour but more than likely been punished anyway.  This is assuming it is something on the lines of ADHD.  Punishment is not the best way to deal with this type of child's behaviour, positive rewards have been shown to really work wonders but you have to get them young.

Even 'normal' 14 year olds can be and often are obnoxious a lot of the time. I should know I've been through that phase 3 times now That's why one of my favourite sayings is "Mothers of teenagers understand why some animals eat their young" :D

I can only speak from experience.  Generally kids with ADHD, two of my five sons have it, do not switch from being charming to being monsters.  They have very distinct behavioural patterns which always indicate their physical condition which manifests as a behavioural problem. 

They tend to exhibit the same personality traits routinely and generally are not capable of making the conscious decision to be charming to others.  This behaviour indicates a controlled response not the out of control response of ADHD.

Hi CherylS

Yep I could have cheerfully have eaten mine LOL.

My oldest daughter went hyper when given tartrazine, but she didn't have ADHD. Thank god! We have a family that come into the shop where at least 2 of the kids do have it though. They were both at my youngest daughters school, but have now gone on to specialised schools where they can get the help and attention they need. Am I glad I don't have to live with them ;)

I'd start at the doctors and ask if they can help out. That's what this family did in the end. They got so fed up of the kids being sent home due to bad behaviour that they knew something was up. Though the kids have always been like this, not just changed recently.

Edited to add: Just a thought, and one I'd rather not ask, but is there any way he could be using? Or sniffing glue, or something similar? I hope not, but he is at the right age. :(

My eldest daughter used to react to coca cola.  She only used to have it when she went to friends' birthday parties.  She would literally run and bounce off walls and furniture.  Very scary to watch.

My youngest son was the same and certainly you could watch him become more hyper in direct proportion to the number of E numbers he was guzzling down! Coca-cola was a forbidden substance other than at parties and Pete would come home from them bright pink and say "I'm sorry Mum but I'm going to be a right little sod tonight"! He never proved himself wrong either. ;)

The difference between this type of hyperactivity and AHD being that he was a different child when he wasn't overdosing on food colouring. He also grew out of this acute food sensitivity by the time he was a teenager.

my nephew has ADHD and ODD and now they think is younger sister has it she is 3 ( he is 6) also the baby aswell (18months) oldest is on ritalin(dont no if thats how its spelt) but other 2 cant take any thing till they are over 4

Thanks for that Echo,I'll pass on the info, it appearas they may well be barking up the wrong tree here then :(

He sounds a lot like my 13 yo nephew.
But I think my nephew is worse
He does have 3 other siblings, he is the oldest.

Sadly my sister doesn't seem to be able to do anything to
help him. He's been excluded no end of times from school.
He has a 'processing information' problem.
At times you talk to him and he's really intelligent and other times
he is the child from hell picking on his siblings etc etc.
I think the school have all but given up on him and my sister has been
threatened with court action if he doesn't attend school on a regular basis.
This meeting was held at school where my 'charming' nephew told the people attending
the meeting 'Well you better get the (court) papers ready now then'

My sister has gone to various parenting courses to improve her parenting. She said what else
can she do. She's on benefits so doesn't have a vast pot of money for expensive foods/supplements.
I have told her about fish oils being good. But I don't think that me harping on about improving their
diets really sinks in either :rolleyes:

I have heard and read alot about omega 3 fish oils being very helpful especially in a child that is unable to concentrate well.
There was a survey conducted at a school last year, i think it was, and they gave children fish oil supplements. The results were reported as significantly improved behaviour and exam results. The teachers were stunned. I think the brand of fish oils used was called eye-q and have seen it on sale in Boots, although, quite expensive!!:rolleyes:
As for e numbers, did any one watch Jamie Oliver's School dinners in which the teacher said that after lunch the childrens behaviour become very bad because of the junk and sugar they were eating. Aftrer eating a more healthy diet for a week the teacher said what an improvement it had made in the afternoon lessons!

Yep, one reason why my children don't have school dinners.  The only time I submit is for the chistmas lunch but my two youngest who had it this time said they wouldn't be bothering again as it all tasted disgusting and was like eating plastic.  "is that beause its processed food?" is what my 8 year old asked me "'cause if it is they can keep it !"  :D  Bless him :)

Superb!!
Just goes to show you can't beat mammas Roast!
My daughter has had 1 term of school dinners, mainly cos a few of her friends were having them.
She too thought they were disgusting and never asked to have them again, which after watching Jamies school dinners is just as well cos i wouldn't of allowed her to!!:rolleyes:

>I think the school have all but given up on him and my sister has been

threatened with court action if he doesn't attend school on a regular basis.

How helpful :rolleyes:

>My sister has gone to various parenting courses to improve her parenting. She said what else

can she do

Turn it back on the school.  Start phoning them and asking them to help her.  Arrange meetings and discuss what she has done and how these things are or are not helping.

Obviously I don't know all the details but if the child has a 'processing problem' she needs to get that properly diagnosed and get him referred to a specialist who deals with whatever he is suffering from.  Parenting courses are not going to help her if the child has got a particular problem that is not in the realms of normal.

She also needs to be pro-active and show the authorities that she is trying to do thing to help such as changing his diet if that has been recommended to her.  These things don't go away by sitting on your hands but she needs to badger the authorities for help not punishment.  Gonna stop now as can feel a rant brewing.

Thanks Cheryl, I'll give her your advice!
Hopefully it will help her make them see it's my nephew that needs help
and understanding and 'exclusion' from school although it takes the
'disruptive' child out of the classroom it's just teaching him that to get out of
school he just has to disrupt the class and he's excluded from school

>and 'exclusion' from school although it takes the

'disruptive' child out of the classroom it's just teaching him that to get out of
school he just has to disrupt the class and he's excluded from school

Exactly.  They are punishing the mother and rewarding the child :rolleyes:  If the parents aren't trying to get the child to school then they are responsible but IMO if the child has a diagnosed problem and that problem is not being addressed properly then the authorities have no right to punish the parents.  Too often the schools pass the buck because they don't know or don't want to know how to deal with the problem.  It's hard work and costs money to help these children properly.

If your sister wants help, she needs to make it clear that she wants it as well.  Ask them what she can do to help him at school and then she must listen to what they say and try the things they suggest.  They might work after all.

If it was me, the next step I would take is to take him to the doctors and get him referred.  Dr might try to delay but she can try and insist by explaining what the school are threatening.  If she isn't getting much help from school she could try phoning the Education Officer for her town and nag them.  There's always the school nurse to pester and she could also pester the school for the school psychologist or school counsellor.  Everyone in fact would show that she is serious about helping her son.  She has to listen to what they say though and not think it's all down to them.

She's on benefits so doesn't have a vast pot of money for expensive foods/supplements.
I have told her about fish oils being good.
I am a single mum on benefits, I admit I live hand to mouth most of the time. And deffinatly cannot afford expensive foods or supplements.
My mum buys the omega 3 oils from Health span for my kids and they are reasonably priced, alot better than shops.
But as for the food. My kids can eat things like fish fingers, baked beans, oven chips etc etc. Sacks of potatoes are only between £3-5/ sack. I didnt believe it until I changed the diet over that it would be as cheap as the food I used to use.
i am a working mum 2 kids 2 dogs and yes it does take alot of time to shop to start with but it is not any more expensive. It can be cheaper than the cr£$ alot of people feed their kids.
Onlt thing is, once you realise whats good e numbers and what is bad E numbers, you realise how many chemicals you put into your body every day ;) LOL
Incidentally my son could always eat white chocolate and the milk. So when they had sweets he used to have milk chocolate not jelly babies. There is always an alternative.
Parties I used to take him a pack up so he didnt eat the party food, but made sure it had jelly sweets from the health food shop that were natural products, ready salted chrisps, sandwich and chocolate roll. things he didnt normally have so made him feel he was eating something nbice without the enumbers. At the age of 3 1/2 he turned round to someone just about to give him Jelly and said ' I am not allowed that' It stunned the women as she told me when I went to pick him up. If they are used to not eating things they wont.
Now he is 7 he is able to eat more and more things but also if he does eat something coloured he is more able to control his anger.
Hope that helps someone.
A really good book that should be on everyones shelf is
E for additives isbn number 0-7225-1562-6
And I would love to hear if anyone can see a difference if they take enumbers out of their childs diet. I strongly believe(and so do alot of other people that knew sam before and after) if I had not taken E numbers out of his diet then Sam would be diagnosed with ADHD and have so many problems now.
Sorry i have gone on it is something I am pashonate about and believe alot of companies could take ALOT of Enumbers out of their foods without any ill effects at all :) :)
Lea :)

Unfortunately taking all the E numbers out of a child's diet and excluding colourings etc can have a devastating effect.  The first thing I tried with my son, then age 3, was to take him off any foods that might alter his behaviour and then to reintroduce them in a controlled manner.  I had a child who would eat literally every thing put in front of him as long as it was soft and not chewy.  When I tried to reintroduce forbidden foods to see if this was indeed the problem he stopped eating just about everything, would not try new foods and lost weight so that he looked like a child from a concentration camp.  His hip girdle stuck out so badly I was afraid he would hurt himself in the bath if he bumped into the plug or toys.

When he started school he was still very thin so he was under the microscope from day one.  He preferred to talk with grown ups rather than children and couldn't get on with them at all.  When in class he could not take turns.  At age 4 his hand would shoot up in answer to nearly every question, bit of a Hermione Granger, not giving any other kid a chance.  He was labeled as disruptive but of course could not understand why, he was only doing what he was supposed to.  Later he was analyzed by the school Psychologist and found to have a high IQ an amazing vocabulary and could read material he wanted to read, but not Spot the Dog books,

It has been proved recently, as part of ongoing research into ADHD that these children often have a texture intolerance were food is concerned and cannot bear to have mixed textures in their mouth.  My youngest son, now 17, is only just able to eat a roast dinner (thank God he is enjoying them at last) and although he is still very thin he is improving.

Being diagnosed with ADHD is not a terrible thing if it helps the child.  Not being diagnosed or being misdiagnosed is.  I would ask anyone to work with the doctor and dietitian regarding cutting out foods especially if there is a high chance that the child has ADHD.  This son was excluded from school for 2 years (the critical GCSE period) but he was able to attend college a couple of days a week and has his results now b's and c's he is going on to study conservation so that he can work with his beloved wolves.

The other son with ADHD is a successful computer technician and prefers the company of Huskies to that of people.

Rant defiantly not over.  These kids need all the help they can get.

Edited to say over 20 years personal research has gone into this

>These kids need all the help they can get.

Bang on!

>When he started school he was still very thin so he was under the microscope from day one

Did that make you feel you were under the microscope too?  I am lucky enough not to have had to go through what you have gone through, but I know it must take a lot of blood, sweat and tears.  Yet, when the chips are down and you need help and support from the authorities it gets turned back onto the child's parents - often mum.  I might be wrong but that's how it looks from the outside.  Well, not completely from the outside, having 3 children means have had fair share of normal run ins with schools, doctors etc.

Oh yes it was always my fault, even though my three other boys were perfectly normal, did well at school and didn't get into trouble (no more than your average boy)

The school regularly rang me to say couldn't I control him, I found that a strange question as he was in school and I was at home, and they used to put him on the phone AGE FIVE so that I could talk to him about being a good boy.  Total madness.  The school psychologist thought he was great though and regularly had talks with him about topical subjects.  School just bored the pants of him unless it was science.  I am so glad hes out of it now.

Interestingly enough, during my last case conference with the school (1 of me and 8 of them, good odds eh!), they told me they were worried about Ash's obsessive desire to work with wolves and said it was unhealthy, some kind of aggression thing.  Ash turned to them and said 'I am sure you know wolves are very shy  creatures and do not seek out man to hunt, you've been watching too many films'.  His response was classed as rude, theirs constructive.  I pointed out that they were being very rude and hurtful, if Ash had wanted badly to be an airline pilot they wouldn't have said it was an obsession.  They have had to eat their words since he stared serious conservation study and visiting wolf projects.

Kinda reminded me of the comments that one of my own school teachers
came out with to a fellow pupil.
Why haven't you done your homework??
I haven't had time I've been competing.
But you need to keep up with your studies etc...

Now this fellow pupil who was so dedicated to their hobby
became the Rally World Champion Richard Burns!

Alot of teachers poo-poo a pupil's dream of becoming something special
because it's not the normal run of the mill career chosen by others...
Hope your son prooves them wrong and becomes his own person!

Thanks for that, he has also made contacts in the states with Monty Sloane most notably who does a lot of wolf photography and conservation.  He has been told he will be welcome there when he is old enough.  I like to think it is a success story in the making.  When I see him sitting with wolves and not surprisingly huskies it melts my heart he just belongs there.  A friend who believes in reincarnation told him he had only just made the jump from animal to human and his soul hadn't caught up yet.

Can i just add, i didnt change the meals and variety of food my son had when I took him off Enumbers.
He still had roast dinner with gravey(boulion do no ads and preserves)
still had spaghetti bolognese(Dolmio)
Still had burgers and chips(100% beef burgers)
fish fingers(Cant remember which ones)
Sausages Baked Beans, spaghetti(Heinz have less additives in)
Ice cream (Chocolate not vanilla)
Even Jelly sweets from health food shop Or Rowntrees no colour sweets that they have started doing. Tescos also do no colour jelly sweets!!!
Had white cheese not red, buttter not marg, pure apple juice(asda smart price) not squash,
Home made sponge cakes with iceing.
Jam, ham, cheese, sandwiches
Chocolate bars
Weetabix, cornflakes, choco flakes for breakfast
i dont think I omitted ANYTHING out of his diet I just changed the food i bought to ones that were free of Enumbers.
We ate what he ate. And even in the begining he still had a very varied diet including different textures and tastes.
The trick is to work out the alternative to what they eat anyway. And I can near enough work out or know where to get an alternative for any meal :D (But am sure someone will probably find one I cant lol)
And School even helped out and gave him alternatives to foods they used to have in lessons :)
HTH
Lea :)

>The school regularly rang me to say couldn't I control him, I found that a strange question as he was in school and I was at home, and they used to put him on the phone AGE FIVE so that I could talk to him about being a good boy.

That brings back memories! Only when Pete started primary school he was very nearly five and more than ready. Unfortunately he had a very iffy relationship with his first teacher who wasn't overly fond of boys at the best of times, let alone articulate and potentially bumptious boys! I still remember the day she met me outside school and, as Pete listened intently, said "He was enough to try the patience of a saint today". Not surprisingly he went back the following day and tried to do better. ;)

Interestingly, although I had to be very careful about E numbers, he had never been disruptive at playgroup and certainly wasn't disruptive when we moved into town and he attended a new school.