Have lain awake all night worrying about this so I really could do with your input, folks, please. As you may know we are looking for A CKCS. We have been offered an older dog. Apologies to the breeder for discussing this in public but I am unsure of what to do. He is nearly 2, a Blenheim,has 1 semi-descended testicle so she can't show him. She was running him on and never got round to homing him. She is in no hurry to part with him. He lives with 8 other dogs so I am concerned how he would react to being left alone when we go out. He lives in an extension with the others and has access in the day to the kitchen so I am concerned with housetraining issues when he has run of our house. He has not lived with children - I have 2. Pricewise the breeder is asking 3/5 of the puppy price for their area. Around here puppy prices are lower so its 3/4 of prices locally. Seeing him will mean a 6 hour round trip.
I hope all this makes sense but I'm a little sleep deprived at the moment and am posting quickly before starting breakfast.
Thanks, Jackie.

Hi Jackie, glad to hear from you again.
First take a deep breath & relax... It sounds as if you're running :D Destress yourself :) This is one of those matters that can seem to spin out of control... just think of it like taking baby steps.

Something to keep in mind:
Ok, If you do get him, I would suggest having him neutered as one of the first things you do. An undescended testicle almost is guaranteed to become cancerous. Not sure about a semi-dec. one (ah, the things you don't have to worry about with bitches ;) )

First off:
If the breeder allows you to (I think she would), have her meet with you & your girls on neutral ground, like a nearby park. Just somewhere off her property & without any of the other dogs around. Have your girls come up & just sit (on a picnic blanket) and watch what he does. Is he interested in them? How does he react. If he relaxes into a liedown or wants to play, that's good. See how he reacts if the elder (first) takes him for a walk around the park. Then the younger. Does he like them enough to be gently cuddled (this could take more time). The relationship with you & your girls is more important as a first step than pretty much anything else. If he doesn't like them and has no interest in them, that could be a very telling sign. If he just isn't paying attention to anyone except his breeder, try working him with tidbits & a leash. Running him through a sit - walk exercise. Just take it slow & easy.

Ok, if you decide that he might be the one for you, see about taking him on a trial basis. Since he's coming to a new household, I'd think about crate training him. If he's used to comings, goings, & excitement, having his own little spot where he can't get into any trouble does relax dogs. Make it a positive place. Work up to leaving him 15 minutes.. longer.... (If you have questions about how to do crate training, just ask a bit later-- I won't go into it here). But if he's ok after getting used to being alone & he's getting along with you, then you have your dog. :D

Seriously, it is easier to do this with an adult. If you had a puppy, other factors get involved. It also helps to bond if someone takes him through obediance school. It sounds as if he's basically like a puppy, except he'll have the maturity of an adult to handle a new environment.

I hope this calms & gives you some ideas.
good luck
toodles

Thank you so much for your reply. I've taken a deep breath and am now slightly more coherent. He really is the most beautiful boy and I have been told by another breeder that he has a lovely temperament. His lines are heart and eye checked and he lives with 3 generations of his family. Its very difficult to make a rational decision when you have 2 little girls looking at you pleadingly - they would just love to meet him. Common sense also tells me that I will be able to see how he reacts to them, as you suggest, rather than having to second guess how a pup will work out.
I have no qualms about having him castrated but my husband crosses his legs and goes pale when its mentioned! We would be paying for the op. By semi-descended testicle I mean that it was there when he was 12 weeks then it disappeared and can still be felt. Their vet thinks he has a short cord. You are right - none of these issues with bitches. Don't like to discuss the money issue but I just wasn't sure what sort of price one pays for an older dog.
Jackie
PS I don't want to alienate the breeder by discussing these matters but I really want to make the right decision for us and the little dog.

Hi again,
Perhaps you can help your husband's wincing response with some simple euphemisms. Those always come in handy :D I think the British use of "castration" is misleading since it give the impression that everything is rather brutally cut off. :(
I'd be envisioning horrors too if they refered to spays as Hysterectomies (which it is realistically, unlike "castration")... I think the equivallent would be a Masectomy with breasts being cut off that would give me sympathy pains with the men.

Instead, try using any of these terms between you & your spouse: "alter," "neuter," or even "vasectomy." (I realize that the dog's testes will no longer be there --but hey, castrate doesn't give the correct impression either) He'll still have his bit & if a female in heat pushes him, he'll be still able to mate... just no longer be fertile. Safe sex for dogs :D Try that one for marketing spay/neuter programs :D :D :D

As for the dogs original cost ---that's completely up to you. I usually barely pay attention to the original price just because that is only the beginning of opening the pocket book!!!! Long term care & attention over the years will make this "start-up" cost a tiny fraction :D If you like the dog & the dog likes you-- and you don't mind the cost...so be it. That's your business & no one else's.

There has been a movement in the US to have every dog, regardless of breed or mutt, have some sort of "sales cost".....this only for the fact that we tend to place more value into something that is purchased than is for "free". I don't know...mine have always been foundlings & I loved them anyway, but I'm not everyone.

I don't think the original breeder will or should mind that you put up a help query. No names were posted --it's still private.... & to me, it demonstrates that you care enough to ask for aid. It takes a lot of courage to admit that one doesn't know everything :D

You'll do fine my dear. Just remember, if you do pick this "pup," there will likely be some difficulties appear as there are in any new relationships. Oh, & they might not manifest even within the first week or month. It takes time for everything to get right. Always know.... IT's NOT YOUR FAULT!!!!! and we'll be right here cheering you on :D :D :D :p
toodles

Hugen I am willing to bet that this little dog will be the best thing ever happened to you . his temperment is there and he is people happy . I would also say he will be thrilled to have his very own mom and his very own house I would say you should go for it , you have given yourself time , and as you say the breeder is not in a hurry to part with him so he is obviously no bother at all .I wish you the best whatever your choice. lol Mari

Hi,If its any help we often have to rehome Labradors which have never even been in a house some as old as seven and touch wood they have never been a problem adapting to a home environment,as for being with lots of other dogs he will relish the attention of a loving home,most dogs like to have human companionship.All I can say is go and get the dog and give him a loving home :)

Thanks for all your kind messages. After all this I have just spoken to the breeder and she is letting him go to someone else. Someone has just lost a puppy and turned up last night and said he would have the dog. I am devastated and I know my girls will be as well. I had emailed and spoked to the breeder on the phone but she didn't pick up my last email saying I would be in touch over the weekend until after this other person had called. He lives much closer so could just pop round. I wish them well. She may have another dog available later but thats another story. Perhaps I should have acted quicker but as I said she was in no hurry to rehome him and the timescale has only been a few days. Back to the drawing board as they say.

Sorry to hear your news Jackie. I'm a firm believer in fate and these things happen for a reason. I am sure that there will be another perfect dog out there for you :-) Have you considered a rescue?

Midland CKCS Club Rescue. Mr & Mrs. Askins on 01886 812536

Good luck

Sorry for you Jackie.... I'm on the same boat as Leigh with Fate [$ things meant to be. Something will eventually work out with you. Don't lose hope. These things take time. Sometimes it acts like finding a partner.... if you stop looking, he/she will find you. :D :D In the meantime, don't be a stranger to us ])
toodles