I have a beautiful 10 year old Airedale Terrier called Rocky, who although has always had aggressive tendancies, has never bitten anyone until now. Today when the postman came, Rocky opened the front door (a complete fluke) and when the postie ran, followed him and grabbed his arm. The postman initially rushed off, saying he would report it and would not allow me to see the wound. He did later come back to my house, and say that he did not intend to press charges as he was an animal lover but that he had to report it to Royal Mail, although nothing would 'probably' come off it. I am at my wits end and would be SO grateful if anyone has any knowledge of legislations or legal procedures, whether anyone could insist he is put to sleep etc? We always keep him away from strangers, and therefore haven't had any problems before now.

I suggest that you contact the police yourself right now and report the incident - they will investigate and ascertain the extent of his injuries - if any!. The postman was obviously shocked by the incident but his employers will know all about dog bite hazards and will take it further. Get in there first! Not only will you look responsible if you report it first and explain how the dog got out and what steps you have taken to ensure that this will not happen again - but you will also not be in a position to have someone say they had a more serious injury than originally inflicted.
This is not serious enough to warrant the destruction of the dog - but do not give any grounds for boosting a compensation claim against you and do not admit liability!

lara, i dont mean this case in particular but some dogs have been put to sleep for barking at people-never mind biting them ,so i dont think you can say that for sure :( , sorry, hopefully the postie will realise the dog is usually kept away but i do feel sorry for the postmen, an idea would be to have a box put up to save him the chance of meeting the dog,

Are you serious?
Whoever has destroyed their dog for barking at someone must surely be someone who has WANTED the dog euthanized or felt that they couldn't cope with it or felt they were losing control! I can't see any self respecting dog owner agreeing to their dog's destruction for merely barking. They MUST have agreed to it!!!

I think Dizzy is refering to the clause in the DDA :-)

thats right leigh------the owner of the barking dog certainly didnt want the dog destryoed but bangers right, if someone said they where seriously frightened by your dog-without getting bitten !!! the dog could be pts, the law is hard on dogs and owners in certain cases,-but yet i still see pitbulls being exersised of leash, unmuzzled etc,-it appears to be one rule for some and a different one for others,

Difficult to prove that they are pitbull though because of the belief of the general public that there are 2 types of stafford - the short legged (standard) and the long legged type (cross) . Mny of these aren't pits, but it is almost impossible to tell the difference...

id imagine its easier these days to prove wether its a stafford or not- kc reg and also dna would prove the point one way or the other

A multitude of staffords are not kc reg, nor pure bred - but are sold as pedigrees. This does not, however, mean that they are or have pitbull in them - just crossed with something else further down the line then bred back to other non-kc staffords (which is, IMO, the reason that staffords are found to be aggressive - same as any dog, bad breeding will out). Also many irish kc reg staffords were purposely bred with the pit a few decades ago to make them leaner and not so head heavy. So proving that a stafford is not a pedigree stafford in no way proves that it is a pit-bull. Not that i am condoning this in any way.

i agree with what you say BUT!! because of the new laws plus the dna profiles now anyone not being able to prove the pedigree and genetics of their stafford would run the risk of prosecution, therefore surely it would only be the honest ans sensible breeders that will win through at the end, as the crosses etc will not have a correct genetic profile, this should help safeguard the staffords in the long run

No Dizzzy, not a different rule....they are just breaking the law & its sods law that they will get away with it & folk like you & I get done for things!

I have been stopped by the local dog warden asking if my bullmastiffs were pitbulls :D wonder what he will say when he sees Berry , bets on baby dinosaur :D

Pygmy hippo of course, LOL :D

barbara you are soooo naughty :) :) marie

I work for Royal Mail, he has to report the dog bite for his own protection, if he has to have time off work then they wouldn't pay if there was no record of it. I have to say that as a whole the company take a very dim view of dog bites, they happen too often, but as this is the first time your dog has had any contact with the postman and is usually kept locked away, if it was me I would ask that no further action be taken. If it does go further then most likely they will stop delivering to your address and you will have to collect the mail, if it does go to court they will probably put a control order on Rocky, meaning he has to be kept on a lead and muzzled in public. Did you get to see if there was an injury ? I know it's very difficult, but personally I take things like this on the merit of the owner, if they are resposible and I feel that it was just an unfortunate accident then I would say this to my manager. Ingrid

My only input to this is that Max has challenged our postman ages ago and we never heard anything since - he didn't bite or anything and the postman just froze and Max ran off to go and bother another passer by. I thought that posties were trained what to do when faced with an agressive dog ? I was told that they are trained to freeze and back away slowly - never run as this can excite the dogs into prey mode.

It's not always easy putting theory into practice though!

If a dog is bent on attacking no amount of freezing is going to stop it . as I found out three years ago outside my door when a big black mongrel dog took a lump out of the side of the fleshy part of my palm.Alice was in puppy at the time . and im nearly sure thats why 4 pups were born dead as she was throwing herself at the gate to get out when she knew I was in danger .
I have to say it is the most painful thing imaginable He was not content to stop there only my son went for him with a flying kick connecting with his face , he ran off then . I alerted the police , and when I was in the hospital waiting to be stitched , a little girl who lived near came in with her dad with a huge lump on her forhead and scratches on her little shoulders she had been attacked and knocked over by the same black dog in her garden. the dog was not able to get out of the garden again as someone closed the gate . He was not able to bite her properly because his jaw was broken , It seems my son broke the jaw when he saved me from further injury. He was collected by police and put to sleep . that is how we knew the jaw was broken . We never found out who owned him . That dog was not provoked in any way. I was actually paying no attention to him at all . he just ran at me and bit . Mari

the dog or the postman Banger:EEK: told to freeze that will not always help you
if my dog become's naughty then I would have him on a thin muzzel and would not put people at risk or him.

pAT

My son is a postman and yes they do report the matter ,I think they can just refuse to post your letters if you have a dog that is suspect with the postmsan don't worry to much .

Pat

Going back to Laras post about the barking at people - I have been told by several knowledgeable people that if someone can demonstrate that they were seriously frightened by a dog (just barking at them) they can be sued and under the Dangerous Dogs Act the dogs owner can be in serious trouble with the Police. I'm not sure if a dog can be put to sleep for barking at someone but would imagine that the dog may have to be muzzled and kept on a lead in public.

Mari - I agree that if a dog is hell bent in attacking you its unlikely that freezing will help - but most posties go on to property to deliver mail and dogs tend to react in guarding mode - I think that is why the posties are supposed to freeze and back off facing the dog slowly. It must be pretty rare to find a dog that is going to attack for just attacking sake although I'm sorry that you were on the end of one of these attacks.

In 10 years in my job, I have only ever been badly bitten once, that was when the idiot owner opened the door and let a GSD out that he knew wasn't friendly, strangely it wasn't the Royal Mail that prosecuted it was a Police decision as this was not the first time the dog had attacked someone, we didn't find out till it got in the papers, a fine and control order on the dog. We aren't given any formal training on dealing with aggressive dogs, I was told if the tail is wagging it's probably friendly, we all know that's not true, our office has a policy of not going into the premises if you don't feel safe. I carry a pocket full of biscuits with me it's amazing how easy it is to make friends with the dogs if you make an effort and so much easier all round. The other solution is to put a Post Box on the gate so no one has to enter the premises, this happened in one case with a cocker spaniel that chased one of my colleagues over a 5 bar gate, owners wouldn't keep it in so they were told to put a box up or not get the mail delivered. Clairemarie have you spoken to the Postman today, any news ? Ingrid

Be careful with the wagging tail theorey - this is usually an indication of high arousal and sign that the dog is gearing himself up - you have to look at the body language of the dog as a whole - taking note of the position of the ears and the head - head low and ears back is a bad sign. Also look at the dogs stance to see if he/she is going to 'spring'.

Ears back in my breed is a sign of affection! :D they normally have erect ears, also they have naturally curly tails, so tail carriage other than when down, is no help!

thankfully they have very expressive and Open faces, and you can usually tell what the intentions are.

Also having a breed that often barks when it is greeting you, it is disconcerting when some people take barking as a sign of aggression!

Barbara,
You are so right...... Samma basically starts down deep in her throat [$ escalates into a rrrrereing sound when she's happy. To me, it sounds nothing like a growl, but even some friends have been startled by her. Her entire body is awag & she's happy, her ears are perked (as much as small floppy ears can be) ... how much more can she do to herself to let others know she's just greeting them? ]) :D :D S

Lana, one of my SWD's barks at people when they come in and actually growls. SHe'll then go up to them kiss them all over, growl again and then give them another kiss!!

I'm always on my guard as she sounds terrible but she's never gone for anyone.

Ears back can be a submissive sign (I worry about your thoughts that dogs are affectionate) and used as greeting but usually when head is low, ears are back sometimes with growling its a pretty good sign the dog is warning you off.

You have ovviously never met an elkhound LOL! The ears go back the grin appears, and if allowed you get leapt or leant on, or you can't move your feet for being sat on!

They can also be capable of a lot of chortling growly noises, that are signs of pleasure!

Well my dog has got no tail and ears that hang down and a fringe that covers all the face and a beard.But i would trust Zac with anyone to a point he could push them over in greeting them .

Pat

No, typical that we had a different postman today! I've got my fingers crossed that if we were going to hear from the police it would have happened by now so hopefully it's left as is. It's great to see so many caring and enthusiastic people on this forum, thanks!

Then Banger I would say it was me that barked at the person stupid laws
Is me or are people just out to claim money from you now adays ,Next thing if your dog looks at a person they will say it scared them to death .

pat

people have a right to go about their bussiness and employment without being bitten! and its sometimes a fine line between a threatening bark and a full out attack, im sure you wouldnt want to be the person that the dog is heading toward so why should anyone else :rolleyes:

Dizzy, no way am i condoning people being bitten when going about their everyday business - and honestly don't see where you get that from my post .
I am simply replying to your point about seeing "pitbulls" off-lead and not muzzled - by saying that you do not know that they are pit-bulls: and unless you have been attacked by one of these or know someone who has been you have no right to say that they should be muzzled etc just because they look like a pit.
Now, irrespective of breed a dog should be fully under control at all times, and if has a propensity to aggression should be lead walked and muzzled definately - but to say a dog that maybe looks like a pitbull should be muzzled just for that reason is not "fair".
i didn't understand your dna post at first - but yes i do agree whole heartedly. The breed would benefit massively from a drive like this, but boy would it be expensive! Also, maybe then people would stop staring at cleo and saying - oh look a miniture staffie - i swaer i could throttle them sometimes! ;)

i wasnt getting at you when i said about having the right to go about our bussiness without getting bitten-it was aimed at dogs that have bitten!!! not at you,
im not saying crosses etc,-im saying pitbulls!!!! i live in a mining town and theyre pitbulls., ive seen them just after having litters etc, im not aiming at poorly bred staffords but fighting dogs, normally with a gang of youths,if these where stopped by the police and questioned tell me how theyd get away with saying it was a pure but badly bred stafford if it wasnt---as i said the dna would prove different, im not anti stafford i feel sorry for the position your breed is in, but its a law that i feel isnt being upheld---yet theyd happily tAke a yappy dog away and have it destroyed. thats the point im trying to make-obviously not very well :D

I get ya now :D
Ok, i think you're right, i even have a minor problem with poorly bred staffords as they have helped to give the breed a bad name... As for the police, a friend of mine with a rot x GSD was stopped and asked if it was a pitbull (it looks like a tan GSD), so they really don't have a clue! I also think there is a massive difference (in police etc eyes) between tackling a group of youths with nasty looking dogs, and taking a yappy dog away from a nice respectable house. I think this is disgusting - but you can kind of understand their motivation.. still hate it of course
Sorry for any misunderstanding, wasn't thinking you were anti-stafford either :D

I have lay in wait for our postman and bit his ankle myself as an experiment and the postman didn't sue me but he did say something about white coats - I didn't quite catch what he said when he walked/limped away :D

thanks for that, such dedication to provide a response. i'd look out for those whitecoats if i were you, and i'll also tell rocky the good news, should get a snuffle or two!!!

For Bangor .:D :D :D i always knew you were a dog , lol Mari

I'll take that as a compliment :D

Bangor , please dont wait behind gate for me I bite back ;) :D :D PS not a compliment not an insult just a joke lol :)

Well in my endeavers to understand Max I do try to think like a dog ! :P

Pat - there was a case on the TV - I think it was Watchdog (no pun intended) - where a criminal was stealing someones bike. A security guard gave chase and the criminal sucessfully sued the security guard because the security man's GSD had "frightened" the criminal. The dog WAS on a lead - thats how silly it gets :rolleyes:

Who decides your cases in England..... a judge or a jury???? Just curious. I know that a defendant in a criminal trial basically has two types of lawyers, a Barrister & something else. But nothing about the civil cases, which I assume this type of suit falls under.

A magistrate usually toodles - a local type of Judge.

So it's just one person with no other recourse for appeal on these decisions....? Obviously these guys don't have touch with reality. :( Too much legal [$ judicial theory . Not enough experience on the practical side, eh. Hmm, some might consider it "Academia" ])

They sit in 3's and you can appeal to a higher court - the higher you go the more you pay for leagle advice. JH

Magistrates have no legal qualifications and only act on guidelines issued by the Home Office.

Fiona
x x x

Hi everyone,

Haven't been out here for a while. I just wanted to say about this postman thing. The postman torments my Dudley. He wiggles the mail so Dudley will rip it to shreds. We send no end of bills off with bit marks in :)) It's funny but it's not, know what I mean? Anyway, I think this dog biting postman thing has gone on since humans and dogs have been around :) I know it can be serious but people going into the profession must know there are risks. I know it can't be easy for the owner. I think socialising Rocky with the postman (by muzzle and let the postman give treats) to show that the postman is not a threat and he gets rewarded when the postman comes. I don't know, it might work. I've had to start muzzling Dudley because I haven't socialised him with other dogs for quite a while. It will be a slow process, but it might benefit everyone.

Wendi, Dudley, & Bernie

'Anyway, I think this dog biting postman thing has gone on since humans and dogs have been around I know it can be serious but people going into the profession must know there are risks.'
This may have gone on for years but that doesn't make it right, I certainly didn't become a postie to get bitten. Owners do have a responsibility to keep their dogs away from all visitors if they know they may get bitten. In this case I feel it was an accident pure & simple and I have to say that I personally wouldn't push for any action against the owners, but you would be amazed at the people who leave aggressive dogs out and still expect you to run the gauntlet to deliver the mail. It may be funny for others but I have colleagues who have been hospitalised through dog bites. Ingrid

Some magistrates are legally qualified & have paid positions (unlike lay magistrates who are unpaid) - these stipendiary magistrates can hear cases on their own or with 2 lay magistrates & they tend to preside over the more complex cases that come before magistrates courts in London & other big urban areas

Jane