I've had to ring in to my OH's work today to tell them that he wouldn't be in today and possibly the remainder of the week.  He was poorly at work yesterday and asked to come home and said that he would make his hours up over the rest of the week.  His work refused to let him home and as a result by the time he finished and got home he was 10 times worse than he would have been if he'd been allowed home at 11am and could have dosed himself up and gone to bed.

He's got a very heavy cold - possibly flu.  A pounding head, sweats but feeling shivery cold, aching all over etc etc.  I've dosed him up and left him sleeping.

When I called his work they said that if he was off he would need to go to the doctors and get a sick note as they have strict rules about being absent at this time of year.  I explained to them that, he's got either a heavy cold but possibly flu and that there is nothing a doctor could do apart from tell him to do what he's doing now - ie dosing up, keeping warm and resting.  I also pointed out how over-stretched doctors are at the moment that that it would be a waste of their time to go and get a note for flu.

I'm now thinking that maybe I've inadvertantly got my OH in trouble at work - are doctors notes strictly necessary - even just for a cold???  I can't believe that a doctor would be very happy if everyone with a cold made an appointment just for a sick note.  Surely my OH can just self-certificate when he gets back to work.  People can't be blamed for being ill especially at this time of year and they saw for themselves that he was poorly yesterday.

Do I have my understanding right or am I being difficult? 

Your Oh needs to go over his Terms and Conditions of Employment.  My doctor will not issue a certificate unless you have self certificated for the first 4 days as this is the law. However, when I worked in a 24/7 industry and I had flu over the Christmas (really ill too) and then continued into the time I should have gone back to work my company insisted I had a Certificate to cover the time off as it ran back to back with the bank holidays.  I don't know, it seemed like they were pulling a fast one really and I had to *buy* a Certificate from the doctor to ensure I got my Bank Holiday pay, but it seemed the easier option than fighting them and trying to reclaim money stopped.

Hi Charanda

According to this http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/helpsheets/2005/e14.pdf (page 19) an employer is only entitled to ask for a doctor's line after seven days of sickness.  Employees can self-certificate until seven days and employers cannot ask for a doctor's statement for the first seven days of a spell of sickness.

HTH and hopes your OH feels better soon.  :)

Thanks to both of you and earl - that link was great.  I've printed the whole booklet out and if necessary he can take it in with him when he goes back to work.  I totally understand that they have to have a strong stance on sickness and absense but when they can clearly see that someone isn't well then I think these bullying tactics are very unfair - not to mention a total waste of a doctor's time.   

OH hates being ill and will be back on his feet and at work as soon as he can but bless him - he feels like he literally can't move at the moment.  :-(

I just hope that he keeps it - I certainly don't want to catch it right before Christmas!!

Thanks again.  :-)

>employers cannot ask for a doctor's statement for the first seven days of a spell of sickness

They do though but as Charanda says it is bullying tactics.  Great link, I didn't have internet when this happened to me.  If I knew then what I know now ;)

> His work refused to let him home and as a result by the time he finished and got home he was 10 times worse than he would have been if he'd been allowed home at 11am and could have dosed himself up and gone to bed.

So not only do they bully their staff but refuse to let someone who is ill go home.  This sort of thing is just plain stupid, by forcing him to stay and bullying him to come into work all they are doing is allowing him to spread his germs around the workplace so everyone else can get it.  Perhaps it's time to look for a new job?

Steve

Hi Charanda,
Just read your post and feel outraged at the shocking attitude your OHs' work has. Grrrrr!!! You should also have pointed out that apart from trying to get into the overcrowded surgery at this time of year, to go there or to return to work while ill he can only be spreading the cold/flu. Then you should have thanked them for the care and concern that they've shown to your OH!!!!! Too many workplaces treat the staff as if they are robots .  I'm of work this week with the exact same symptoms as your OH, unlike his work , I've been told they don't expect to see me back this week , even if I am recovered as they know that it takes a few days to get your strength  back. When my OH has phoned in the mornings they send Best Wishes for my recovery! I realise that I'm lucky , as where I work it's all about people, and not productivity, targets, etc. Speedy recovery to your OH, it's a horrible cold/flu thing.

Hi shadbolts and dippydog - I totally agree with both of you, its shocking and certainly not behaviour I would put up with if it were me who worked there!! 

His work is physical (in a warehouse) and so with the symptoms he's got at the moment there is just no way that he could do it.  He's now laying in bed at home worrying about what is going to be said when he gets back to work.  I know that he's a grown man and all that (but hey he's poorly I'll let him off feelng feeble today) but I wish that I could go in there and give his superiors a piece of my mind. 

I'm the same as you dippydog - my workplace are understanding and would never pressure you into being at work when you're not capable.

Its understandable if you've been taking sickies left right and centre throughout the year that they maybe have a quiet word or discipline as necessary but to just bully people who are genuinely poorly is really shocking.

Thanks for the support though guys - he's got Glazby curled up on the bed with him which is the best kind of hotwater bottle you could wish for!!  ;-)

Sending {{{hugs}}} to you and your OH :-)

I hope he's feeling better soon xx

The place I worked at were dreadful if you took time off sick. They even used to put up posters every year offering flu jabs which they encouraged people to take up.  One lady I worked with had very bad psoriasis or eczma (can't remember which) on her hands.  Her hands kept splitting and she had to put on cream and wear linen gloves and so she was signed off.  My manager went to her house with a personnel woman to interview her when she had been off for a certain amount of time.  The lady concerned tried to put her off but the manager insisted it was company policy.  It is easy to see these are bullying tactics but when you are in a job that you can fit around your family life as this one did you are made to feel you haven't got an option but comply.  One person who complained about something was told the cliche "if you don't like it there are plenty more to take your place"

I think bullying in companies is probably very commonplace but they pick on the ones they know they can bully and get away with it. 

I hope your OH gets better soon. 

How appalling. Does not this employer have an absence policy, harassment policy or sickness procedure?

You self cert for a week and under and after that a Doctor's note is required.

Hopefully this employer refers to being "fit for work" in their policy and procedures which can be quoted.  Along with the HASAW act.

I strongly suspect that rather than the "firm" being directly responsible your OH is the victim of a supervisor etc who is undertrained etc........

Presumably there is a grievance process that can be invoked..........

I hope your OH is feeling better soon. Certainly he'll get better all the quicker if he doesn't have to struggle into work, give the germs to everyone else or worry about his bullying employees. Does he have a union he can take this up with?

Unfortunately, this isn't the first time I've heard of companies having "a policy" about sick leave taken around the time there are public holidays. Someone I know was initially docked a week's pay for being ill over August Bank Holiday weekend and not being well enough to come in the following week. She was told this was "to deter people from taking time off to get an extra holiday at our expense". That people might be genuinely ill wasn't something they'd accept. In her case, she went back to work because of their policy since she couldn't afford to lose a week's pay. The result being that she was taken off in an ambulance later that day suffering from pneumonia. After she came out of hospital a week later, she took her employees through the grievance procedure and the policy they claimed couldn't be changed suddenly was!

Hi Roz  :-)  I've heard of this policy too and wonder if this is what his work have.  Hmmmm we'll see what they say when he goes back.  He's already saying that he'll drag himself back in there on Friday if necessary - just to prove the point to them (and to spread his germs about so that they can all suffer over the Christmas break)  ;-)  **evil charanda**  ;-)

This is the same reason that the company I worked for threatened to dock my pay without a certificate.  I was ill from the 24th which may seem suspect but it happens and lets face it, it is the time of year that people are likely to fall ill anyway. My doctor won't issue a certificate in retrospect which is why I had to buy one.  By buying the certificate this proves to the company that you are really ill because the doctor has verified it.  It is a terrible waste of the doctor's time, because you know yourself that the doctor can't prescribe anything for flu and you could be taking an appointment that someone else could have used.  It is awful to have to drag yourself into a surgery when you are feeling so ill and then spread your germs around there too.  It is understandable that employers want to curb the *taking a sickie* culture but the people that are made to suffer are those that are genuinely ill.  Don't know what the answer is, but companies should never bully people, it really is the thin end of the wedge.

I totally agree with everything you have said there CherylS - I'll just have to see what they say to OH when he goes back to work.  They could see how poorly he was yesterday (not as if he was a fine bill of health and then suddenly I phone in the morning and he's come down with some supposed bug over night) - which is why I think making him get a doctor's note is going a bit too far.

Ho Hum - makes me feel very lucky to work somewhere with such understanding bosses!!

Hi tohme, I agree with you totally and we are just going to wait and see what is said when he returns to work.  Hopefully by pointing out that he doesn't legally require a doctor's note for less than a week will be enough to make them quiet however, if they try and take this further then I will encourage OH to stand up for himself.  He's been an employee there for over 8 years and you would expect a bit more support for a long standing employee where staff turnover is so high.

As I said earlier - I wish that I could deal with this for him, I'm more than happy to get my soapbox out and have a good rant about my rights whereas my OH is more reserved than me!!  ;-)

No need for a rant, just acquire the relevant written policies and procedures ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Ooooh but ranting is so much more like fun!!!  ;-)  :-) 

(Though of course I know that you're right and that you generally achieve so much more by going down the right routes) 

I don't know, sometimes ranting can do the trick.  The year I was ill with flu I had to cancel my parents coming for Christmas day and spent the break in bed.  When I went back to work I put in a holiday form to take 2 days off over the Easter so that I could *do* Christmas then instead.  I used to work 20 hours a week over 2 days. Two weeks before the Easter break and after a few times of me trying to get my holiday form returned I was told I couldn't have the time off because I only worked 2 days a week it looked like I was taking a week off and that didn't look fair to other people   No, of course it doesn't make sense and I had a rant which got me nowhere to begin but obviously took her by surprise. The following week I was still incensed and asked my manager was she going to sign it or not because if not I wanted it back so that I could take it higher!!!  It was signed with a shaky hand but I cried my blinking eyes out after.  Sometimes you have to stand up to the bullies or else they walk all over you.  Someone on here as already said it might be the immediate supervisor/manager that is the problem and that was definitely the case where I worked.

Not a good idea for him to sit in a doctors surgery. If you are worried that his manager doesn't believe him then I would offer the opportunity for him or a colleague to pop round to visit. They'll probably refuse but at least it will prove to them (not that you should have to) that he is genuinely ill. If he has a good mate at work surely he could back you up ?. I guess so many people do take time off that companies are sometimes suspicious, especially at this time of year. I worked with a woman who took weeks at a time off with back problems and insisted she couldn't move. A manager paid a suprise visit one day to give our good wishes...............to find her hoovering the inside of her car ! (not something I do even when I'm well !!).
Hope he feels better soon and that he's 100% fit for Christmas.
Val

Thanks Val (and everyone)  :-)

I've just got back to work after lunch at home with the patient and he's still looking poorly and confirmed to me just how ill by turning down my suggestion to bring his playstation upstairs for him to keep him occupied.  He said he'd rather just sleep....now thats not like him whatsoever!!! 

He's got a work friend popping over this evening as it happens - he's dropping over some cds we'd lent him.  I'll let him pop into the sick room and then he can report back tomorrow.

I'm determined he's not going to pass it to me just before Christmas!!

Oohh...

I didnt realise so many employers DO try to bully people into getting a sicknote before the self certified 7 days is up.....

My best mate has had a problem with her employers TWICE now over this, both times demanding she get a sick note (which she can little afford on minimum wage)...

The first time, she was BULLIED back into work WHILST covered by her sicknote, her boss told her to change the date on it.

The second time, her boss came and knocked on her door, AND my door looking for her, supposedly 'to check she was ok', but in fact to rip into her because she was left short staffed.

Both times my friend had something very contagious and what makes this even worse... she works in a residential care home for the elderly!

Second time round, I answered the door and told her boss where to stick it, and that further harrassment would be dealt with legally.

Boss phoned and apologised the following day, but im positive it will happen again as my friend is the youngest membero f staff and lives two minutes walk from the home.

Em

Bullies seem to be the same whether they are children in the playground or adults inthe workplace.  They single out those they think they can bully. The time I stood up to my manager about the Easter holiday situation she didn't speak to me again which obviously was very welcome.