I have just received a puppy query (admin - no puppies available).

Anyway I explained about health etc etc and also explained that should there be a litter all puppies are endoresed.  Anyway have had a reply fro the lady saying because of the endorsements she is not interested. 

What do you all make of that?  I am fuming!!!  She obviously wanted a breeding bitch!!  I explained the endorsements are there for the protection of the puppies etc etc

GOD I AM SOOOOOOOOOOO MAD!!!!!!

Well at least you know who NOT to let a puppy go to - would it be worth sharing her name with other breeders, through your breed society, do you think??    Sadly we know that she'll get a puppy from somewhere though :(

Margot

Good Idea Lokis Mum - am sooooo angry! 

What is it with people that think "Oh I know lets buy a bitch and we can breed from her down the line without health testing etc"  All of my adults had endorsements on when I bought them as puppies.  I told her NO reputeable breeder will sell her a puppy without endorsements and that I hope she doesnt buy from a puppy producer or farmer.  She said she didnt want someone else to decide if she can mate her or not.  ARRRRGGGHHH

My website needs updating I think to whittle down the time wasters!!! 

I can understand why you are so angry ;)

All of my dogs have been bought with endorsements and I am perfectly happy to abide by them. I would question a breeder if they didn't endorse, particularly in my small numbered breed.

Presumably, even if you do tell others in your breed her name, she won't buy from them, because they too will have endorsements which she refuses to abide by.

This is a good example of why puppy farmers are still in business and some dogs have the most horrendous health and temperament problems :(

Good Luck :)

She has since replied and said she didnt understand the endorsements and that she apologised for her ignorance. She also said she wont be buying from a farmer or producer - I told her to contact the breed club for advice on endorsements.

I endorse all of my pups too!

My first dog has endorsements. I thought it was the norm with sensible breeders.
My second dog isn't but that's because I'm friends with the breeder and she knows that I would never use him (unless of course he wins crufts next year and only then with her guidance ;) )

>I told her NO reputeable breeder will sell her a puppy without endorsements

My 'puppy', who is now 3, came from a very reputable breeder and I didn't even have a contract, let alone endorsements, so I think that is a bit of an unfair statement. I'm not saying I disagree with them, I think they're a great idea, and maybe in the 'breed dog' world it is common practice but I don't think you can label every breeder who doesn't endorse as 'unreputable'.

My Elka born in 1992 was not endorsed, and few were then, but by the time I bred my first litter in 1995 it was considered a sensible thing to do and most breeders in my breed started to do it around then.

Contracts were an even later thing, as in the past selling and buying a pups was a gentleman's agreement, and I thinks some only started doing them in last couple of years since KC require soemting signed in writing that the owners know about the endorsements.

I had lengthy diet instructions, vaccination record and a receipt with my Elka that was it.  I had the breeder on the end of the phone until her death though, and shw was around long enough to see me win my first CC in 2001, but sadly died befiore she became a Champion.

Hi Liisa,
Pardon my ignorance (and this is not sarcasm - I really am ignorant!) what are endorsements and why are they necessary?  Also , if you did want to go into breeding, how would you acquire a suitable bitch to do so?

This is simply academic interest as I have adult, neutered rescue dogs only but am intrigued by all the complications that seem to surround 'proper' dog breeding.

I've endorsed all my pups - all the buyers are very understanding about my reasons behind my endorsements, but then my buyers are all lovely :-)

Endorsements are put on a pups registration when the litter is registered with the KC
The main one that goes on is to stop people having litters. They can still have them unfortunately but they would not be able to be registered with the KC if either mom or dad has the endorsement. This means in theory it should put off people as generally dogs will cost more if they are KC registered.
Another one I had stops me from exporting my dog to another country.
These endorsements can be lifted but only by the original breeder. So if for instance you had a good bitch and you got all the health checks done to the breeders satisfaction and she was happy for you to breed then she could lift the endorsement with the KC and then your litter could be registered.
Hope I've explained that ok. I do waffle

Hi Missthing,
(not sure if this will fall in the right place or not) Endorsements are something that the Breeder has put on the KC papers of the puppies. It is to stop people from breeding dogs/bitches. These endorsements can only be removed at the breeders discretion. So hopefully is a deterent for people not to breed as they wouldn't be able to register any pups bred from these dogs/bitches.
I think I have got that all right, but i'm sure someone will confirm if i have misinformed at all :-)

edited to say  perhaps I should read all posts before replying as Megan collies has already replied with info :-o

I think this is a tricky one.  I wouldn't necessarily jump to the conclusion that she wanted a breeding bitch, just because she was put off by the idea of an endorsement.

I have to admit that when we looked for our first, one of our questions was "will they be endorsed?" and if the answer was yes, then we went elsewhere.  This wasn't because we wanted to breed (we still never have), but because we felt that we wanted to totally and completely "own" the dog and didn't want to pay full price, own the dog in all other ways, and yet not feel ourselves to be deemed responsible enough to decide what was best for our dog - in theory - even though we had no intentions of breeding. 

It's also worth saying that the situation of endorsements in our breed just doesn't really happen.  Out of all the breeders I called up (all really successful, big names in our breed), none of them were putting endorsements on their puppies.  I think now some people are reluctant to start doing it, because no one else is, and they are worried the "good" new owners will go to another breeder when they find out the litter are endorsed. 

To be honest, if I were ever to have a litter, I probably would endorse them, so it's not that I'm anti-endorsements, I just think it's a bit more complicated.

I think your view makes sense but you are obviously a sensible caring individual with the right attitude.
I do think though that if by putting endorsements on a dog puts off one stupid person that just wants it for breeding than endorsements are a good idea.
When I got my bitch, I had the usual endorsement on breeding and registering offspring. I knew that I didn't want a litter anyway so the endorsement does not effect me or my feeling of ownership of her in any way.
With a lot of breeders i've found that if the dog is good enough in their view and all the relevant health checks are done then they are normally happy to lift this endorsement anyway.
I still think it is a responsible thing for a breeder to do. Anything that can help prevent bad breeding and bad owners for their pups has got to be only good.

I agree Megan57collies, I've told my buyers that if the pup ended up being of an outstanding standard and had all the relevent health checks, good temperant was of the correct age etc I'd lift the endorsement.  I want my puppies future owners to want  them for a companion not a breeding/cash machine.

I think endorsements are a good idea as that way only reputable breeders will continue to breed.Without them anyone could breed any dog if they wanted.If you sold a pup without them then that person bred from the dog you sold them then you,aswell,are responsible for the welfare of their pups?Is that right,as i would know i feel responsible?

Ah, if only this were true.  An endorsement only stops people registering pups with the Kennel Club - in no way does it stop people breeding and either selling unregistered, selling as 'registered' with an alternative company or cross-breeding and selling as 'designer' crossbreeds.

M.

Endorsements mean that the breeder "ticks" the little boxes on the corner of the registration document to say that the puppy is not registered for breeding, nor export (generally).    I endorse all my puppies (including the ones I've kept for myself), but the BREEDER can request the Kennel Club to life these endorsements - and providing the puppy is of breeding quality/has passed relevant health tests - the breeder may do so, if satisfied that the new owner has complied with tests, etc, will use a suitable stud (generally recommended/endorsed by said breeder ).

Memo to self:  remember to lift endorsements on my own dogs, should I decide to breed from them :)

Margot

That reminds me that I will need to lift my Lexi's endorsements if she has a litter before I register them.  Will probably staple the request to the litter registration :D

Thanks to Megan and everyone else for their explanations. I understand the motivation of the ethical breeders but a glance at any free ad-paper shows that non-KC registered pups are regularly featured and at top prices.  I have CDs to thank for my education in this area by the way - I never intend to buy a pedigree dog but now act as interpreter/advisor for people (even less knowledgable than me) who do.

Having re-read that it sounds as though I tell them what to buy - which would be arrogantof me - but actually what I do is tell them what NOT to buy. Hope this makes sense - it's late and I'm tired.