Could some please tell me the symptoms of elbow dysplasia?

We have recentley bought a Labrador bitch to breed from, we got her from an experienced show breeder who had shown her with sucess and had her hip scored 4/6.

However when we got her home she was lame at a trot (we didn't notice this when we went to see her both times)
gave her the benefit of the doubt and a weeks rest but no improvement. When she went to the vet for a microchip he could find nothing wrong with the foot (we initially surmised t was the foot). After contacting the breeder he said that she had had some lameness a few months ago (that we hadn't been told about) and it was nothing to worry about. She had just been knocked over by one of his other 17 labs chasing after 1 ball.
To cut a long story short we are now wondering if it could be elbow dysplasia. she is still lame after a month of rest and was v.overweight when we got her.  it seems to be higher than her foot.

any ideas?

I would take her to a vet who can score her elbows in the same way that hips are scored.

Where do you live - there are certain vets to go to around the country who are better than others at the hip and elbow scoring and I'm sure someone can recommend a good place.

If you know of a GOOD back man it might be worth getting her looked at. I work my gundogs as well as show them and I've had some amazing results even with dogs that appeared sound. If she's been running with other heavy Labs there's every possibility something might be a bit "out" and it'll be a lot cheaper to try that before getting the vet involved.

We had wondered about chiro but don't know anyone that does it. We live in Cornwall, a lady at my show training uses one but she's in Oxford. I don't know if she's coming down anytime soon.

Is it true that the best hip score person is the lady from the Isle of Wight? Our Lab was done there and we are wondering if it's best to take our RR's up there as well?

Do you know of any good elbow people so I could find out if they come to my area?

I have used the lady from the I.O.W and she is extremely accurate, she does elbows as well but i only had hips done.

Hi there, I have a 2 and a half year old boxer with elbow OCD. We had him x-rayed by 3 different vets and nothing showed even though the dog was lame still after weeks of rest and gentle lead walking. In the end we took him to the Liverpool University hospital where he had a camera inserted into both elbows to see what was causing the lameness. All along vets had been x-raying the wrong leg because with this condtion it is usually the other leg that is affected. The treatment was very expensive (£1500) but we really wanted to get to the root of the problem as it had been ongoing since he was 7 mths old. There are so many reasons to way dogs develop this condition, In our case Bruno was an unwanted show dog so we don't know what environmental factors played a key in his condtion. A dogs diet and over exercising are other factors that can contribute. As a rule affected dogs shouldn't be bred from as this condtion is thought to be hereditary. Thankfully Bruno had a small piece of bone removed successfully from his elbow and he has been grand ever since.

If you were having elbow scores done then both elbows would be x-rayed

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. It doesn't always show up on the x-rays. That is why we had a camera inserted into his elbows to get to the root of the problem.

i get what you mean!! and if there is already a problem there i.e lameness then an appointment with a specialist would be better than elbow scoring.

Hi again. The back man that we use is actually a human manipulation therapist and I was making an appointment and just happened to ask if he did dogs. He is very gentle and frees up problem areas rather than using force. I have suffered from very bad migranes for years and was regularly crunching pills from the doctor - I've hardly had a headache since the first time I went. It seems unbelievable and has really brought home to me how important our spines are in all aspects of our health!
Several of my friends have also taken their dogs for various problems and have been amazed with the results so it might be worth some asking about in your area.

Hi, Broomie how did they help your migraines? I've had terrible ones for years and virtually live on painkillers but i went to the chiropractor and she didnt help at all even gave me one once! :rolleyes:

anyway this is a site for dogs so i won't digress :D
have asked in the vets about a chiro for dogs and the girl on reception didn't even know what one was! No-one there knew of one and a dog trainer friend of mine doesn't either. Not very keen on asking local human one (see above) is there a website with a list of animal chiro that i could look on?

Kingofbling What symptoms did your dog show? What sort of lameness did he have? Our bitch runs leaning to the lame side keeping her leg straight whilst the other one propells her along, is this similar? At slower paces she just 'limps'

Thanks for your replies

Helen

Helen, as this sounds like an ongoing problem I'd cut to the chase now and ask for a referral to an orthopaedic specialist vet either at a vet school or in a private clinic now. As King of Bling suggests joint problems often cannot be properly investigated or diagnosed without contrast X-Rays/arthroscopy that the average vet (much less chiropracter!) can't provide. I have a boy who had bilateral OCD shoulder (now sucessfully treated). His X-rays looked fine but contrast X-rays showed flaps. But even they did not give an indication of how big the flaps were on arthoscopy and at surgery.

Hello again.
If you think that every nerve in your body (however tiny) originally comes off the spinal cord you can see how something sitting a "bit out" in your back and putting pressure on a nerve could potentially be the root of all sorts of problems. I hasten to add that I am not suggesting this as an alternative to proper medical advise but I've seen some interesting results all the same. You could try and find an equine back man - most of them do dogs too.
I'm originally from a horsey as well as doggie background and most people get their horses backs attended to routinely. As horses and dogs are on all fours so to speak there is a lot of stress put on the back and when they are then charging about over rough ground and slipping and sliding about it's really amazing how many stay sound!!
The first dog that I took to our back man is my 8 y.o. Lab dog. Nothing specific but he seemed more prone to broken tail than he used to be. All my dogs work hard picking up all season so I thought it was worth a try. (I also made sure that my other half got his back done first as if I wasn't happy there was no way he was getting his hands on the dog!) The back man found an area about half way along the dog's back where several vertebrae were sitting a bit out and he gently manipulated them. Since then the biggest difference is in his tail action - he's carrying it much more happily and we have't had a bout of broken tail since.
The second dog I took was a 3yo Lab (the first one's son). He has been doing really well in the show ring this summer but was very shy with the judge going over him and believe me, this is not a shy dog!! I also felt that he sometimes threw a front leg out slightly on the move. My back man found areas at the top of the spine and over his shoulders and the difference in this dog is amazing. Unfortunately he's turned from a partial to a total idiot but I think that shows that he had been uncomfortable before. I also took his son (18months) along, similar sort of thing, tail a bit limp, not happy with one front leg etc. He had the same problem areas as his Dad and a bit half way along his spine. When that area was relieved it was like somebody had flicked a switch in him. His tail shot straight out from his back and he literally pounced on the back man, jumping up at him and getting really excited. It sounds really corny but it was as if he was saying thank you to him. Hope this helps.

thanks for the info.

Broomie, i'm also from a horsey background and it's common to get the horses done so maybe i'll ask her if she can do it. i can well belive the difference in your dogs as i have seen the difference in the horses, biggest trouble is convincing OH as its his bitch! i did suggest it last week but he wasn't sure, "just try Champdogs first" he said! Well ha ha as someone agrees with me!

Thanks Jas your advice was v.sound, but as we live miles from the nearest vet college i will try chiro first and then other routes. Being in the west of cornwall has it's down sides!! We were going to have her elbow scored anyway as we had her to breed from so will get x-rays done. fingers-crossed it's not her elbows as that wuold be the end of breeding!

In a similar vein, is there a best age to have a hip score done? i know they have to be 12mth but someone said that the older they are the worse the score. Is this true? I have a 14mth RR and a 7mth one and i'm goning to get them done but would it be alright to wait and have them done together?

Hi again.
Years ago I was given a 7 y.o. working bred black lab. He was a smashing looking dog and I showed him with some success. Anyway, I put him in to be hip scored expecting some horrific high number as he had worked really hard all his days. It came back 6/8!
Having said that I tend to get mine done before they are two - it saves all the wondering as I'm always a nervous wreck until the results come back!

http://www.horsesanddogs.co.uk/manipulationtherapy.html

If you want an excellent animal chiro then I would recommend Nicky Routledge; I have my dogs regularly checked every 3 months in order to prevent problems, as they are competition dogs.

She is in your neck of the woods

My dogs have regular chiro too & i have to say i think it is fantastic !
A fantastic one in the new market are is a lady called Julia Smith-Pearce, she also does people & horses, she also does some TT, miafasia release, reiki, massage & will hopefully be doing acupressure & craniosacrum later next year, she will only go at the animals pace & doesnt resort to muzzles but works on building trust with the dogs. She really is a very special person, never condecending or patronising.

How can I contact her please?

Hi, hope it's not elbow dyplasia. I add  Arnica to my dogs feeding. I work them and they can take some knocks, I find the arnica helps with any sprains, swellings and bruising. It's totally safe so worth a shot, also get some weight off your dog too many breeders have their labs so fat they are unable to do what they were bred for. Goodluck

Good idea spyro, i used to have arnica after the chiro. Where do you get it from?

been trying to get the weight off her but hard to do when you can't exercise! she has lost some just from having less and better quality food and already looks much better in her coat although she is still blubbery!

Hi HelenRR- I get my arnica from holland and barrets, I sure you could also get it from Dorwest Herbs--Website--www.dorwest.com

Hi HelenRR,  sorry i didn't reply back in time. As far as symtoms go, we found that Bruno was lame after long periods of rest ie waking up from sleeping and after a period of exercise, His lameness was more prominent then. I would definately try to get a referal to an orthapedic specialist as we spent over a year messing around with x-rays and various vets not tomention wasting time and money. In the meantime supplementing with glucosamine, msm and vit C can all help alleviate the lameness. But definately get to the root of the problem. Kind regards, Clare

Sorry mean't to add that he didn't extend his leg when in trot. It looked like he was dipping down on one side. I'm having one of those days!