My dog is 4 years old female, my vet told me that she have to go through pregnancy or she will developm cancer or spay her. I don't want her to be spayed, and at the same time I don't want her to developm cancer. But she is 4 years old dog, is she tooooooo old to get pregnant?

Natasha,

Firstly, no your dog is not too old to get pregnant.  But that doesn't mean you should breed her. 

Where do you live and where is this vet, because I can't believe that he is telling you to breed her - that is extremely irresponsible.  There are already too many dogs in the world.  We don't need to be trying to persuade people who don't really want to breed.

Your dog won't get cancer, but she might get something called pyometra if she isn't spayed.

Pyometra is an infection of the uterus.  The uterus fills with pus.  There can be an "open pyometra", when the pus can be seen coming out of the dog, or a "closed pyometra", when the uterus is closed and the pus is held inside it.  There will be no outward signs for a closed pyometra.  Pyometra is fatal if the dog does not get to the vet's for surgery immediately.  The only thing to do to save the dog's life is to spay the dog, to remove the pus filled womb.  This surgery is more risky than an ordinary spay, because it is an emergency spay.

The fact is that - all female dogs will get pyometra if they are not spayed.  They might get it at 4 yrs old, they might get it at 5 yrs old, or at 7 yrs old - but eventually, they WILL get it.  It is not a matter of IF, only WHEN.

So, if you want your dog to live, you WILL need to get her spayed some time.  Can I ask why you don't want to spay her?  She is 4 yrs old and fully mature now.

The only times not to spay a bitch is if you want to breed from her, or if she is under about 18-24 months for some breeds (I am not a fan of spaying young bitches).  Since you don't want to breed and your bitch is 4 yrs old, I think you really should spay her.  If you don't, she WILL get pyometra and then she will either die, or be forced to have an emergency spay anyway.

The fact is that - all female dogs will get pyometra if they are not spayed.

Surely a rather extreme statement?

I don't think so, not according to what I was told by our vets and have read online - will try to find the link.

Link is here:

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=584&S=1&SourceID=42

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_the_canine_spay.html

http://www.gsdhelpline.com/spay2.htm

Quote: "This is an extremely common disease of older unspayed female dogs! Pyometra is not something that might happen; consider that it probably will happen."

I love the way stuff get copied word for word from one site to another on the net without any actual figures or evidence being given.

You've had testimony from three different people with actual experience in keeping entire bitches into old age to suggest  that pyometra is indeed something that might happen, not something that will.

Yes, but I'm still (genuinely, and not for the sake of argument) interested in whether these bitches were ever bred from or whether they were both entire and maiden bitches at those old ages?

>whether they were both entire and maiden bitches at those old ages?

kayc said:

>none of my other bitches suffered from this, most were maidens till the end since I was not breeding at that time, and since I began my breeding programme, the only 'victim' was a proven bitch, but all were entire

Well, that's v interesting - but I wonder how much that's an exception and how much, statistically that would be the case? 

I wouldn't want to risk it and keep an unspayed bitch if I had no intention of breeding from her.

Both of the two bitches I've had with pyo had been bred from (one had two litters, the other one). Of the nine I've owned into old age without pyo, two had been bred from, the rest were maidens.

I have had 3 entire gsd bitches who lived till they were 12 ,13 and 14 with no problems in that department whatsoever so I don't believe it is inevitable that all unspayed bitches will "definitely" get pyometra.

Out of 11 entire bitches that lived well into old age I've had 2 pyometras. Both dogs were elderly when it happened but both sailed through the op and lived on for several more years.

I wouldn't argue with anyone who prophylactically spays older bitches to prevent pyometra but on balance I prefer to leave them entire and always be aware of the possibility of pyo.

We've had about 25 bitches over the years who have been left entire and only one has had pyometra.  So I'm sorry I don't agree with that statement.

Also to the poster, I'd change vets if I were you!  Can't believe that there's almost 2 identical posts on the same day, with a vet saying this.  UNBELIEVABLE.

But did you breed from them or were they still maiden when they died?  Breeding from a bitch reduces the chances of pyo.

I am not convinced this is really the concensus  I personally know of sevaral Closed pyos within 6 months of having pups. My own  bitch had a pyo when her pups were just 6 months nearly lost her

Nor me Blue, My bitch had an open pyo during her 2nd pregnancy. (the scan detected it) But, none of my other bitches suffered from this, most were maidens till the end since I was not breeding at that time, and since I began my breeding programme, the only 'victim' was a proven bitch, but all were entire

Hm, second poster, second vet saying the same thing -weird. Where do these vets suddenly appear from? This is what I wrote on the other thread, rather than repeating myself. :)
http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/cgi-bin/board/topic_show.pl?pid=612846#pid612846

Unspayed bitches can live well into their teens and never get cancer. Pyometra is more likely than cancer, but ven that's not guaranteed. Nothing is certain in life!

That vet should be strung up - what an old wives tale! She's your dog and your responsibility. If you don't want to have her spayed, you don't have to and there's certainly no need at all for her to have puppies! My first dog was never spayed and never had puppies - she lived to be 13 and was as fit as a 2 year old up to a month or so before she died of lymph cancer. There are certain diseases and cancers that they are more likely to get, but none of it is a certainty. All my other bitches have been spayed and they've been just as healthy. On balance I think spaying is a good idea and certainly more convenient for the owner and dog.

Your bitch's health is more likely to be at risk through mating, pregnancy and giving birth than it is by being spayed or being left entire.

Breeding is best left to the experts.

I've recently read an interesting article posted on a dobe forum:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/11341/message/1130246256/Interesting+info+on+S-N+and+cancer+risks

Bit long and sciency, but the gist is that while spaying or neutering can reduce the risk of pyo, mammary cancer and testicular cancer, it can also increase the risk of bladder cancer, prostate cancer, osteosarcoma and hemangiosarcomas (tho I don't know what that is!!).  There's no hard data for this, but then as far as I'm aware there's no hard data for the pros of s/n either.  Basically, it's up to you to weigh up the pros and cons and decided if you want to spay or not - but it does help to see it from both sides.  I've always heard vets suggesting s/n to prevent pyo etc, but never the other side of it - possible health risks due to s/n.  Lots to think about.

Personally, both my dogs are s/n, my boy at 10 months and my girl at 2 yrs, before I was fully aware of all the pros and cons.  Future pups will be left until mature and then I'll decide based on pros and cons and their behaviour (i.e. whether I can cope with an entire dog/bitch).  I have had an entire bitch in the past - a springer X irish water spaniel - she was entire till about 11 years old, then she got a mammary tumour.  Never got pyo though, before or after the op.  Very healthy dog apart from that lump, although it's worth mentioning that she died at 15 from osteosarcoma.

>> Breeding from a bitch reduces the chances of pyo.

Last time I spoke to the breeder of my dog she told me about one of her breeding bitches who nearly died of Pyo.

How much do vets attribute to what see themselves and what happens generally?  I would have thought there would be research on this so vets can make statements based on facts but it seems from this forum that some say contradictory things.  I got the impression that any bitch could get pyo and the older they get the greater the risk.  This doesn't mean that will get it, it's probably a statistical thing i.e. 1 in 4 bitches will develop pyo and the older they get the greater the risk unless they are spayed.

I expect all women to have babies too, whether they want them or not, as the risks of breast cancer are also slightly increased in those women who have never had children or who have only had one............................. :rolleyes:

And do you know that statistically we are more likely to die the older we get! :D

lol! good point tohme :D

Hi Natasha
Can't understand why you dont want your bitch spayed.  If you don't want to breed her it is the sensible thing to do and also makes life easier for you, no more seasons or risk of unwanted matings.  I have had a bitch that had two litters and still developed pyometra which is equally as dangerous and life threatening as cancer.  By spaying at least you remove this worrying scenario developing. I also have a bitch who is spayed and not had pups, it hasn't altered her in any way, she is a lovely affectionate lady.
Irene