I have just sold a pup that I considered to be in good health.My vet checked all pups at 7 weeks old and passed all fit.
New owners have been in contact saying the pup has a reducible hernia and will require an op costing £150 and they want me to pay as they say it's my responsibility.
In the 8 weeks he was with me I never noticed a hernia and I've had pups with this condition before so I know what one looks like.I've been in touch with my vet who says he wasn't aware of any hernia.
If I sell a pup in good faith believing it to be  healthy then am I liable.I'm no vet  surely it's not my responsiblity and I have in all fairness had my pups checked out.
I have of course offered to take the puppy back but they want me to re-imburse them for the petrol and their vet fee plus a full refund.
Please can someone sdvise me on where I go next

Have you been in contact with the new owners vet who has diagnosed this problem? I think if it was me i would be inclined to do this and depending on the outcome, offer to pay the £150 for the op or maybe offer half the cost as you did have the puppy vet checked before it left you, do they actually still want to keep the puppy?

I've offered to pay half but they say it's my responsibility and I  should pay for all.
Not sure if they do want to keep him now as he seemed quite pleased when I said I'd give a full refund if they brought him back however they want me to pay for the inconvienience of returning him plus their petrol and the vet fee.
I'm at present waiting for their vet to return my call

Can you not go and fetch him yourself?

Did you not use puppy insurance? If so, and especially with your vet not noticing anything, surely PetPlan should pay for it?

Not being funny but the dogs that you've had with it before are they from the same mother?  If so then it is your responsibility as in most cases a hernia is hereditary.

I know from experience that it is hard to get anything from a puppys owners vets, even if it is something that you need to know about in case something happens in the future. 

i bought a pup from a breeder with a hernia. they did nto even know what it was. and when i mentioned it to them they were nto intrested. i would not take the dog back not in a million years. however the vet did tell me it is knwon to be hereditary  and there from birth.

in this case it was an imbilical hernia.

the thing with a vet check liek it is with horses. a vet check guarentees nothing. an animals could develope a heart murmer the next day, it coulc develope a condition.

so when the vet came and checked your pups the hernia may of been there then but not noticable.

what was in the contract when you sold the pup?

The relevant bit of my Sales Agreement says -

"We encourage you have your puppy examined by your own Veterinary Surgeon within 72 hours. Should your own vet find any illness or abnormality at that time, that is later confirmed by a veterinary surgeon of our choice, we agree to take the puppy back and supply a replacement if available or return the full payment price, or to pay the veterinary fees required to treat the condition according to your wishes. This excludes minor gastric upsets etc associated with travel."

In your situation I'd probably ask them to have their vet ring me and would pay for the op if there is definitely a hernia present that is big enough to need treatment.

Edited to add: having re-read what you say about petrol money and so on, I think I'd want this pup back regardless and would give them their petrol money if that's what it took to get it.

Had I known it was there I would have pointed it out but it was NOT noticeable.
No the other pups I've had with a hernia were not of the same line,one was 20 years ago and not related,one was  a pup I bred but was told it was due to the bitch pulling to hard when cutting the cord....this dissapeared with time.Another was on a cavalier pup I bought in from another breeder which also dissapeared after a few months.
Going to fetch him back isn't an option my OH has poor health and can't drive such a long distance I have however offered to meet them half way.
As for the insurance their vet told them it was a birth defect and therefore is not covered under the insurance.

Their vet has just been in touch and says it could swing either way.He cannot say if it will need an op at this stage and has asked I let it sit for a further 2 weeks when he will examine the pup further.He is of the opinion that it may indeed not have been obvious at the time of the health check which suggests that it's something which has worsened in the last week or so.
I'm now at a crossroads,do I ask them to bring the pup back or do I wait and see.He also say as it may indeed have not been noticable when I got him checked then I shouldn't be responsible for the whole cost but just 50% which I'm happy to do.

What about the "free" insurance that comes with KC registration?  Would that cover the cost?

No it won't cover them because it's only active from the time you send back the transfer of ownership.They only took him on Wed and haven't got round to the transfer yet.She had her own insurance that started from Wed but either way vet says insurance will not pay out for something that's probably been there from birth whether visible or not.Unfair I know as I'm not a vet so I signed the declaration that he was fit even though at the time I didn't know there was a problem

kia mummy -

what a pickle.

This is my take on it - if I were you, my biggest concern would be 1. the relationship between the new owners and the pup, and 2. the relationship between the new owners and you.

As a breeder, which I'm not, but if I were, it would be incredibly important to me to have a good relationship with all of my puppy owners.  And I would want to know that the relationship between the puppy and the new owners was excellent too, and the puppy was in its forever home. 

From what you say, there's a lot of finger-pointing going on, which doesn't bode well for things between you and them.  Also they perked up at the idea of returning the pup, which also doesn't sound like they've bonded very well with it and don't have a particularly good relationship with it yet.

Now the vet says to wait 2 weeks, that's another 2 weeks of this puppy's life - are the owners going to want to wait that long, not knowing if they are going to keep this pup or not at the end of it, or return it to you.  And, do you as the breeder want to wait another 2 weeks before you know if you have to find another home for the pup, when we all know that the younger the pup the easier to rehome.

I'm afraid, my instincts would be to get the pup back and sever all contact with these people.  That may not be the best thing to do financially, but breeding has never been about finances, for people who breed with the dogs' interests at heart.  So, I would take the pup back and refund their money, and then while I wait 2 weeks, set about finding another home for the pup.  Hopefully the pup won't need an op, but if it does, I would pay for it and explain to the new owner what the op was for. 

I can see two sides to this story because if you buy a pup it would be very worrying to discover he had a pre-existing condition that would require an operation. On the other hand, you've acted with complete honesty since when you did sell the pup there was no sign of the hernia and there's something very mercenary and grasping about these people that I don't like the sound of and which doesn't bode well for their future relationship with the dog. So my instinct would be to refund their money (if necessary paying for their blasted petrol) and get this pup back as soon as possible. 

What a horrible thing to crop up.  I am not a breeder but have had two puppies that had potential problems arise days after I had picked them up.  The first was entropian and I contacted the breeder who happily paid for the op - although I didn't ask her too and there was never a question of returning her EVER - she's still with us 10 years on.  The second was a heart murmur and I rang the breeder just to keep her informed - she offered to have him back but this was the last thing I would do in those first few days you bond so wonderfully that to think of them going away but be dreadful.

I have to agree that I think the best thing for the pup would be returning to you - I can't believe that people treat pups like something they can return when things aren't what they expected!

To me any pup quickly becomes part of the family.

I know my breeder had to collect a pup from a family and giving a full refund for the safety of the pup.  He's happily rehomed now.

Rachel

I have offered to go 50/50 at their vets suggestion hoping they would be happy with this and  which I'm not obliged to do but in the interest of the pup I felt I had to make the offer.
They are having none of it and now say they don't want to return the pup as they are really happy with him.Duh yes they would be .They have a first class pup who even by their vets admission is the best example of a puppy of this breed he's seen in years(not that they know much about it)I think he was talking in health/condition terms.They paid next to nothing for him a,they were happy to travel the distance when  picking a pup and collecting him knowing full well they were getting a bargain.
They know they have me over a barrel re me going to get him back as my OH is unable to drive long distance due to poor health ,so they intend to keep him  and see what develops.I wonder if I refuse to pay full stop will they be keen to hold on to him for fear they'll get left to pay the bill.

Legally you do not have to pay a thing towards this operation or their petrol bills, it is a moral delemia more than a legal one.  You have offered to take the pup back and give a full refund, which is the moral thing to do and the only thing legally that you could be forced to do.  This is not a life threatening problem a simple operation (if needed) I think you have bent over backwards to be helpful.  Until I read that you had in fact spoken to their vet I was a little worried that it was a scam. You have obviously not made a contract regarding returns, vet checks etc. And seem to have done everything a conciencious breeder should. (It is a shame it is not covered by insurance)

I have heard many a horror story from others who have bought pups with real defects and the breeder has basically told them to bring the pup back or piddle off. So what happens next is entirely down to you. From the sound of them I hope they bring the pup back.