we haver been thinking about getting a border terrier for a while and have noticed a litter of border terrier puppies crossed with a norwich terrier. I dont know much about Norwich terriers or cross breeds in general. Anybody got any advice on this and if they think this cross of borders and norwich breed could make a good family pet.Any help would be greatly appreciated.b                  

I don't know about a cross, but a Norwich Terrier is a great dog. Small and yet quite strond. It can also be a very good family pet........ back in the days I really wanted to have one, but there's a limited number of them, so was quite impossible to get a puppy :( .....

Hi!  I have a male 6 month old Border x Norwich, his name is Toby.  Obviously being a cross I cant gaurantee how your dog will look, but Toby has the look of a Border, and the solidness of a Norwich.  Tobes is a delight, but has the typical nature of a Border... a right little sod.  He is strong willed and often hard to control.  I would suggest that anyone wanting a Border should visit someone who has one first, as they can be a right handfull.  That aside, like I said before, he is a delight... though he is his own dog!  He is very excitable when people come to the house, and children often find him too much as he can be a bit bouncy and scratchy with his claws.  Bouncy, did I say bouncy?  Actually I would say that he launches himself at people, like a flying dog - not nasty just eager!  When people leave the house and get in to their cars, we have to keep a close eye on him as he has a habit of chasing after the car if we turn our backs for a second.  He hasnt got anything against cars, he just wants to be with the people inside.  Luckily it isnt such a problem for us a we live in a quiet cul-de-sac, but it is something we will have to keep alert to.  Another of his quirks is chasing after anyting that moves... if he see's a person down the road, he is off... no amount of shouting will get him back, I just have to run after him.  He usually stops around the corner when I puffing and panting get to him, and he just has a look on his face of GREAT FUN DAD!  Again, no amount of scoulding will make him listen, I will just have to get a flexi lead, it is my own fault for letting him out off the leash.  He constantly mouths your hands and arms, bite bite bite(playfully).  And given the chance he will charge up the stairs to attack anyone who is sleeping WAKE UP WAKE UP!  answer: get a stair guard.  So to recap: would I suggest a Border for a family dog?  Quite honestly, for a family with young children... NO ... a Border is a bagfull :)

HC

You are not describing a Border, you are describing a dog who needs far more training by his owner!!!!

To be honest you are making a rod for your own back, letting him chase cars (for whatever reason) is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.  Would you let your child do that?

As for letting him run loose on a road with no lead, for goodness sake!!!

If you don't want him to launch at people, train him not to or at least hold on to him.  What you going to do when he launches himself at a child and scratches or injures their face. 

A correctly trained and controlled Border is a joy to own, not a nightmare like yours is likely to become as he gets older. When correctly trained they are the most wonderful dogs with children and make delightful family dogs.  Take control of him now before it is to late, get some help by taking him to training classes.

I see you are from Norfolk, there are some very good training classes in Norfolk.

Hi Lady, You are right, I am my dog's worst problem.  But in my defence, our road is a very quiet cul-de-sac, miles from any main road.  No excuse I know, as I would be mortified if Tobes got ran over.  I will still stick to my word and suggest that anyone wanting a Border should know that they are very strong willed, not easily trained, and that they should visit somebody who has one - though not Toby.  I am an average Joe and havent had a Border before - our last dog was a Pomeranian!  I do take on board what you have said, and you can consider me told off. 

Regards,
Terry

You are forgiven Terry glad you are taking on board what I said.

As for it being the Border part of your dog that is not easily trained, think you have forgotten that there is 50% of another breed namely Norwich in your dog, and they are notoriously strongwilled. Any terrier is going to be a very different kettle of fish to a Pom, they are hcalk and cheese.

I am owned by 12 BT's who although they may not all be obedience trained have been very easy to train to the standards I want. It sounds to me that your boy has already realised that he can twist you round his little paw, and knows how to do it with a vengeance.

As I said previously there are many training classes in Norfolk, I should know I am from Norfolk :-).  So if you need to know some of them let me know.

Going to training classes is out of the question I am afraid, due to travel, and medical reasons.  Can you suggest a really good book or DVD for training?  Toby will do simple commands, sit, down, stay, etc, in the home or garden - but get him out and about... no.  When we do take him out he is ALWAYS on a leash until we get somewhere I am confident of a low risk of distractions.  Actually he is far better behaved when he is out on a walk, rather than in the front cul-de-sac.  I think I have stupidly slipped in to the trappings of giving him free reign on home ground, thus he is pushing the boundries.

Thanks I am looking forward to your response

Terry & Tobes

Hi

As the owner of a BT and a young family I can definately say that BTs are fab (and mine is particularly good with my young daughter!).

He is a total fusspot but will wait until he is called to get his fuss (although he will watch you constantly until you say "come on then"!).  He is especially gentle with my daughter and loves her to bits (perhaps cause she loves to do doggy massage on him!)

They can be a might stubborn but nothing that training can't help as mine in particular is very attentive and loves to do a bit of training.

The only thing I would say though is I always keep my BT on his lead (unless we are on our own land), as if he spies a bird/rabbit/squirrel he will want to chase it.

Thats the one draw back with BT's sarah, they can very conveniently turn a deaf one.

Thats why all of mine are trained off lead from a very early age and are not allowed to stray far from my side until I am 100% of their recall.

I'm sorry Terry I have never used any particular books or DVD's for my training( bit too long in the tooth for books nowadays), but I am sure if you Search this site you will find some books that are recommended.

Whereabouts are you in Norfolk by the way?

Hi Lady,  I am in King's Lynn.  Toby ran off again today, when he was with my father in the cul-de-sac.  I have told my Dad that he is now NOT to be taken out without a leash, even if it's just to take out the bins.  I am now thinking that these episodes in our cul-de-sac are becoming an excuse for him to have a charge about.  Can I ask you, how you would 'tell him off' if he did it in the future?  I know that if we keep him on the leash it wont happen, but how do you repremand your dogs?  We NEVER NEVER smack him, but 'bad dog' doesnt seem to do the trick either - he just bounds about getting away with things.

Cheers

T&T

Well I wouldn't let him down the pub for a month, wouldn't let him watch his favourite TV programme and take his pipe away from him. :)
I presume you are talking about your Dad because the dog has done nothing wrong.  You are the ones letting him loose in the close.  You all need to stop doing this until you get the training sorted out, and as a previous terrier owner I would say even when recall is good I would not allow free running where there was any danger of traffic whatsoever.

You really must get through to your father that he is not to let him have any opportunity to run loose in your cul-de-sac.  This is what is teaching him to do it elsewhere.  He doesn't need reprimanding he needs training.

How food orientated is he?  If there is a large degree of Border in him then he should be very orientated!!  If he is is, then teach him that treats are kept in a rattly tin that is small enough to be kept in the pocket, when he does something that you ask him to in the house, rattle the tin before giving him his treat.

Always have the tin in your pocket when you have him outside, if he starts his silly bouncing about then rattle the tin loudly and call his name in a fun voice, not a reprimanding voice.  Reward him as soon as he comes to you and continue to rattle the tin to get him to come to you.  Eventually he will come just to the rattle of the tin.

This is my system of recall probably the forerunner of the clicker system, but I find that my BT's don't hear a clicker as well as they do a rattly tin.

If food isn't his thing, then has he a favourite squeaky toy, if so use that.

Don't ever reprimand him whilst he is charging about or you will put him off coming to you, don't chase him either, which he will think is a game.  Rather turn and run the other way into the house and hide calling his name as you do, he will then almost certainly get worried as he can't see you and come and find you, if he does then praise him fully, rattle the tin and reward him. Hide and seek games like this will keep his mind occupied as well.

Make coming back to you the game, not the being chased after.

Hope this helps, unfortunately you are too far away for me to come and help as you are in the West and I am in the East of Norfolk.  I hope this helps a little bit.

Hey Lady, you are a wise old Owl!  Everything you said makes total sense. 

Toby is VERY food orientated, as he likes almost anything: oranges, onions, apples and pears, extra strong mints, all raw veg(especially carrots).  He also has a passion for squeaky toys, or any toy actually. 

The tin idea sounds great, it will go in to operation tomorrow, as he is in bed now.  I have the next two days off work, so I will try to take on board all your VERY helpfull ideas. 

CHEERS  T&T

Fingerscrossed Terry

Like the Wise Owl bit but not sure the OLD part fits to well :-)

Lots of years of experience of Border Terrier minds helps.  Been there, done that is the phrase that springs to mind.  They can be holy terrors that make you pull your hair out at times, but they can also be the most loyal and faithful of terriers.

Perserverance is the name of the game, if Toby is as food orientated as you say, utilize that in everything you want to train him to do.

My lot love baked pieces of liver covered in garlic, cut into tiny pieces, they would sell their souls for it, I only give them this as a training treat.  Makes training seem worthwhile for them, they like to keep their minds active.

Lady Dazzle is a very wise owl when it comes to borders.  She has given me some very solid advice that I have taken - but often copper has totally resisted :D.  Borders can be stubborn and mine is.  However, over the 2+ years I have had him he has improved and a lot of it is down to LD's advice.  He's still a nightmare but I love him!

Thanks LD :)

CG

Hey Thanks CG, a bit of thanks makes everything worthwhile only glad I could help with your lad.

Glad to hear things are improving if only gradually, you were always going to have more problems as he was a rehome, all that history doesn't help.

xx

LD

Hi Terry,

Just butting in here but you should really avoid giving Toby onions- they're on many a list of things that dogs shouldn't eat as they can cause a form of anaemia..

-Kay

Me and Tobes went out today with new ideas in tow.  Firstly it was 'walk to car with leash on' - no probs he was good as gold(usually he would charge about the cul-de-sac like a tazmanian devil).  When we arrive at a rough piece of land near our hospital, we walk from the car with 'leash on'.  I let him off and he runs about like a torpedo - no problem there though as its his off time.  He does start to go a little further than I want him to, so I call him back, TOBY!(in harsh gruff) - not a flinch, he ignores me.  Then  I think to myself what Lady Dazzle told me, 'call him in playful happy tone'...  HE CAME BACK IN AN INSTANT!  We walk further on to find some Wabbits... HE'S OFF!  I let him have some quality Wabbit time, as to be honest he hasnt got a hope!  After a while I decide he has gone a bit far again, so I put another of Lady D's ideas in to action... I simply turn around a walk the other way.  After a few seconds his head is up and looking for me, then comes bounding back.  About 50 yards from the car I call him with a 'happy' tone and he lets me put his leash on with no chasing about.  It was a very good outing all told.

T&T :) 

P.s. Thanks for the tip Kay

Great Stuff Terry.

Keep up the good work

Can I pick your brain again, LD?  Have you any advice on how to stop Toby from constantly biting/mouthing our hands and arms?  When he is sat with us, or in our arms he constantly bites.  It's not a nasty biting, but I would like to get him out of the habit.  Also, we don't get our faces too close in case of a knee jerk speed snap.  Any advice?

Cheers T&T

Whenever toby nips you- make a high pitched squeal sound- ooowwwwww! that should stop him nipping and get attention- tell him aghh aghh-no, then offer  a toy inplace bof your hand!
goodluck!