I am probably being a real fuss pot here, but anyway, I would like some other perspectives/advice.
My puppy was weaned on Royal Canin, but there were no suppliers near me, so in advance of bringing her home i decided I would change her over to Burns. The change went well as I did it over a period of about two and a half weeks and my girl certainly adores her food. She went off her dinner a few weeks back, and so to tempt her back I started to mix a very small spoon of Naturediet into her Burns buscuit, reducing her buscuit by a handful, and this has worked to get her eating again. I have her on Burns Minibites as she is 4 months old, but she is now over 20 kilos, and the Minibites only states amounts for pups up to 20 kilos and not beyond it. I called their advice line and they have actually told me to reduce her food now down to 15 grams per kilo of weight, which would mean around 300g at the moment. This concerns me as already on she is hungry all the time, and I do give her treats like mini coxs apples, or carrots which she loves, but she is hungry for 'proper' food. Is it usual for pups to be like this, or for that matter for dogs on Burns to be like this? She is constantly in the kitchen hanging about for food, and seems ravenous. When she gets to 6 months I have been told to reduce her food back down again to 10 g per kilo of weight. Any reassuring words for me??!

Burns doesn't seem to suit all dogs.  Mine lost weight on it and their coat went dull.  I now feed Royal Canin and have done for the last two years.

I never look at the grams to feed.  Just use your judgement as to the weight of the dog, not the fact he seems hungry.  Personally I think you need to feed more Burns then Royal Canin.

If you are having trouble getting hold of RC, give them a ring and explain.  Might be worth asking a local petshop or boarding kennels if they can order it for you.

My eldest cav lost 2kg on it and when we uped the amount she had the runs. Shes now on AG and going well.

Hi Nannyogg
is it a gsd you have? (if i am remembering right ;) )

Well mine is a large breed pup (9mths old now) and i had a similar problem as to amounts to be fed especially when i changed from mini bites to adult burns. Althought previous advice from burns was good, they told me my pup had to be on adult rations at 10mths old he's still growing :rolleyes: needless to say i took other peoples advice on here ( ie those that own large breeds ) and Kai is still looking good on his puppy rations as oppose to adult ( which is half the amount) Ribs can be felt but not seen.
Burns feeding for puppys is based on 20grms of food per Kg of body weight, so if you know your pups weight it is easy to work out.
I would do as others advised me... keep her at puppy size meals til a year old and then gradually start to reduce down to 10grms per kg (adult feeding). I changed to adult food at 6mths but still feed roughly 20grms per kg.

Burns food is IMO good but unfortunately not all their telephone operators are.

you could move onto burns canine extra which is the large breed puppy food.  I had real problems with my first boy on burns he lost soooo much weight on it and if I upped the amount it gave him the runs :(  I ended up taking him off it and would never go near burns again for my dogs (the cat is thriving on hers :) )

Yes, she is a GSD. I am really worried that because she seems constantly hungry I have effectively been making her live on rations by following the guidelines and what the phone advisor told me rather than giving her what she needs. Because she is at such a crucial stage in growth and she hasn't (obviously) been getting enough food, could I have damaged her growth permanently? I know that might sound idiotic, but she is my first dog and I was so paranoid about over-feeding I following the guidelines to the letter.
I am now going to give her half mini-bites and half canine extra, but give her more than the recommended amount, and see how she gets on. She definietly seems to want more. Thank you all so much for the advice. Just to clarify, I am recommended by Burns to give her 300g of feed a day, should I give her 400g a day and see what she makes of that?

Certainly never go by recommended amounts, your eye should be your guide for your dog.  I have to come in and say I would never feed Burns either, my dogs had big dark cow pat poo's on it.

It's funny you would say that because my pups poos actually got lighter in colour. Isn't feeding such a difficult issue? I am now debating whether to use up the last of my Burns and put her back on to the Royal Canin my breeder weened her onto, purely because Royal Canin has a similar protein level to Burns, but there are far more options for feeding - MAXI Baby, MAXI Junior from 5 months and the Shepherd specific Royal Canin German Shepherd 24. I am really not sure what to do. She liked her Royal Canin and she likes her Burns...

It really what you feel satisfies her appetite.  I had my 2 youngest Munsters on the Burns extra as I wanted a higher fat content but after 4 bags I wasn't impressed.

Have you thought of Nutro or Arden Grange?  Arden Grange produce a Graduate food which might be suitable for your GSD and it's a quality food. This will take you to their site and information about the product.

I agree with ChristineW and I don't think feeding is complicated at all. :) Choose any decent brand of food that the pup or dog does well on. Forget about the amounts the manufacturers give and look at how well covered the dog/puppy is. Each breed and in many cases each individual within the breed will need different amounts. Don't allow a dog or puppy to get overweight. Look at a growth curve for your breed and change from puppy to adult at the age when the growth curve levels out.

NannyOgg-

In my opinion, Burns is a far superior food in terms of ingredients and nutrients than Royal Canin, so if you can, I'd keep her on it.

HOWEVER, I have heard many many people say that their dog needs to eat a lot more than the recommended amount and it is generally known that Burns' recommendations are on the stingey side! 

Personally, I think that Burns have a bug-bear against dogs getting obese and they have over-compensated for this by reducing their recommendations too much.

When you've finished the Mini Bites, I agree you should switch to Canine Extra - the kibble is larger and she is less likely to "inhale" it and cough.

The other thing I'd say is - there's nothing wrong with adding Nature Diet to it, as you are.  But if you find this is too much hassle or you'd rather not buy the Nature Diet, you can get the same "nice taste" effect by adding a tablespoon of natural yoghurt. 

>>I am recommended by Burns to give her 300g of feed a day, should I give her 400g a day

Firstly how much does she weigh now?
and secondly if uping the amount do it gradually abit at a time at each feed as increasing the feed in one go could cause a runny bum.

I did find that whilst kai was on the mini bites he did seem constantly hungry and on the raid but after changing to adult and adding some naturediet he seems to have settled now. hardly any raids :)

I forgot to add, my boy was always scrounging for food when on burns, when I moved him onto BARF he was such a happier more content pup, obviously because he was no longer hungrey - I felt like such a bad mum :(

(and before everyone jumps on the band wagon NO that wasnt a plug for BARF, im just saying how it was ;) )

Hi NannyOgg
I have been having exactly the same dilemma as you with my Springer (now 16 months) as she has been on Burns for a good while and has always seemed to need quite a bit more than the recommended amount - so I worry from time to time about whether to change foods - even though she seems to be doing very well on it with her 'incorrect' amount.
I think in the end I agree with jas - my dog just needs more food than she's 'supposed' to have and I think I'm going to try very hard to stop worrying about it (but it is very difficult - food is such an emotive issue!) Good luck with your decision ... I'm sure you won't have damaged her growth - at one point I convinced myself that I had stunted my girl's growth (so I know how it can be!) but when her breeder saw her at 10 months she said she was absolutely fine. :)

Hi NannyOgg,

All three of mine are on burns, they have the VAT free active one for working dogs. I wouldn't give them the ordinary one as I don't think there is enough protein in it for them as the are very active! :-D My pup is coming up for 9 months and he was on the mini bites until he was 6 months old and has been on the active ever since. He weighs 14.5 Kilos and gets 2 mugs a day which is about 200g. He is doing very well on it and I am very pleased with him. I never gave him the exact amount of mini bites when he was little, he always got slightly more. I wouldn't reduce her food down at 6 months as she is still growing. The biggest problem I have found with puppy food is that it is too small and mine choked on it once they had all their adult teeth as they ate too fast. You could try her on the canine extra as that is for larger breed puppies and carry on feeding her as you are but keep a close eye on her weight as you don't want to end up with a fat pup. I have heard of quite a few people that have had trouble with Burns and their dogs always being hungry and losing weight but they have usually tried them on the ordinary adult food which I tried and decided against some time ago. Mine are greedy beggars and will behave as if they are starving even when they have just been fed and they were like this before they were on Burns. Mine also get extra's such as table scraps, veggies and fruit most days and I give them the Burns Kelties and the ocean bites for treats too. I don't have a choice about what I feed mine as one is impossible to live with if and the other is like vesuvious with projectile diahorrea if they get anything with additives in :-( I tried BARF but unfortunately that didn't suit mr vesuvious, neither did JWB, Burns was the only thing that did :-)

Hey Colliemad, thanks for that. I have noticed the minibites are really small, which isn't ideal for bigger pups so I have started mixing in some Canine Extra and she actually seems to like the different textures. I have since posting upped her food. I gave her around 400g yesterday and she cleared the lot. Today she has had all but about 50g, but literally cleared her last meal to the extent that her bowl was shiny and didn't need a wipe down she had licked it so much! I am just going to moniter her food, and at the moment I think she definitely needs more. She is quite a greedy dog, so I know I have to keep this in mind, and I do give her an apple to have every day and a carrot every few days and she also has natural treats from Burns, and a marrow bone every two weeks. The thing is, I genuinely felt she wasn't just being greedy but was actually hungry all the time. I am going to keep with the Burns for now but just giving her extra and see how she gets on. I am intending to moniter her for a week and then see what happens. I may decide to change her back over to Royal Canin, as that is what her breeder recommends and uses for her own dogs and for weaning litters, but I will just wait and see how she goes getting extra feed.

I cant believe the paltry amount burns recommends :( No wonder so many owenrs report starving underweight dogs when fed on this food,and most put it down to greedyness,i bet they really are starving :(

That John Burns advises on a question/answer section of a magazine,whenever people write in about their fussy or underweight dogs he gives a quicky 2 paragraph reply and always says the same thing,"you are lucky your dogs not overweight,and regulates it's own food intake",he NEVER gives a helpful reply to these kinds of questions! It is really annoying as i have a fussy underweight dog,i get no help from his advice at all :(

<<I cant believe the paltry amount burns recommends  No wonder so many owenrs report starving underweight dogs when fed on this food,and most put it down to greedyness,i bet they really are starving>>

Hailey,

My dogs are not starving and are certainly not underweight they really are greedy. Both my adult dogs get the required amount and the pup gets a little more. I found that one of mine lost a lot of weight and was in fact in very poor condition on more than twice as much of JWB and he was still just as greedy and asking for more food. The trouble is that so many dogs are overweight that a lot of people think that this is normal and a dog that is lean and fit and the right weight looks too thin. JWB is a good quality food but it just doesn't suit my dog, Burns does. I have to ask, is your dog underweight or do you just think that it is? If you look on the Burns website you will find a FAQ section and maybe you will find the answers to your questions there or you could try contacting them direct, there is also a forum.

my boy was VERY underweight on Burns and he was scavenging all the time, when I upped the amount it gave him the runs.  When I changed his food, within a week he visably put on weight and didnt scrounge hardly at all.  I felt so guilty that I had been starving my puppy :(

NannyOgg,

Hi, have you seen that RC actually do a breed specific food for the GSD now?

Christine

Yes, that is one of the reasons I now think I should perhaps consider switching back to Royal Canin. I was perfectly happy to keep her on Royal Canin, which was the food she was weaned on to, but there was no supplier near me, so I went with a food that I could get delivered for free, which was one of the reasons I chose Burns (I also heard that it was a good feed). Now I think if my pup is still hungry on larger amounts of Burns, I may well switch back. I am worried that the small amounts I have been giving her (which was the amounts recommended by Burns) has inhibited her growth, because she has been starving. I feel terrible for not noticing sooner, but I thought she was just food begging being a naughty greedy pup and not that she was hungry. I eventually posted on here and called the breeder on the same day and we had a long chat and she said she would feed more in my position, and since I have she seems a lot happier in herself. I am worried about getting her fat, but I will cut her down once she reaches six months old. I think I may well finish off the Burns I have and switch her back to Royal Canin.

On the bag of Burns active I have it says that the feeding guide is just a guide and to feed more or less according to your dog's needs, it says the same on the Bag of Burns my friend has, can't find anything wrong with that myself ;)

I've started feeding Burns again as my dog's teeth started to look dirty again, and on Burns they are always clean.  However normal Burns doesn't seem to suit my dogs, they do better on the Active  or a mix of both ;)  On the other hand my friend's Cocker is far too fat on the recommended amount of Burns, but the owners feel mean giving any less :rolleyes:

Just goes to show really, not all foods will suit all dogs :D

Personally, I think all the various "breed specific" diets Royal Canin are making are a scam, designed to get people who feed other foods to switch to Royal Canin because they "claim" to offer a breed specific diet. 

IMO a breed specific diet is a silly idea.  There is already enough variety in the various different "age related" diets offered, without having to offer age-and-breed related diets.

Black's white and white's black......