As I posted already, Luke has been prescribed this food for a trial period since the vet considers his ear problems may be caused by an underlying allergy. He ate it with gusto at first, but today he has been struggling with it although he is obviously hungry. He is not a fussy dog - he's a lab :D :D :D and has eaten voraciously since the moment he was born! Has anyone had any experience of feeding this? Thanks!

hiya carene,

have you had allergy testing done? If so, whats his allergies? What were you feeding before?

my older lab used to eat for britain, and i put her onto Burns High Oats-its got double the fibre content of regular Burns, so (in theory) made her feel fuller for longer. I found she used to pace herself eating it too. And she had rocks for poo's!

you could always try adding a few tasty treats, such as oily fish or meat, but if he's allergic to them, then you can't!

my sister's boxer is on one of the Hills prescription diets, although not sure which, and he eats it every meal without fail.

there's always the raw option, which i know nothing about, but it seems a popular option with other champdoggers?

nicola

Carene have you looked at the ingredients on z/d,just about everything on it's list seems like an allergen! I dont know many dogs who like any of their prescription foods or the normal ones,they may as well be served up sawdust!

Have you tried wafcol salmon & potatoe or burns? Both of these are good for allergic dog.

Thanks for your advice, but the whole point of this exercise with z/d is a trial to see if it sorts out his recently diagnosed ear allergy (no symptoms until an ear infection last week - diagnosis made from examination under anaesthetic).Whilst on the trial, which is to last for at least 8 weeks, he must have nothing else whatsoever,apart from the food and of course, water. My labs are normally fed on Burns chicken and rice, on which they've done very well. I even asked about Logic toothpaste, and was told very firmly, "NO- not while the trial is in progress!". Anyone else had similar advice?

Hi Carene,

I know of several dogs who have allergic / intolerant reactions to many foods and prescription only completes by Hills, RC, Waltham or Purina is all they can eat - literally.  However these are dogs that are on them for medically and surgically diagnosed chronic GI, liver or kidney problems.

An exclusion trial is essential to determine what can be fed without causing a reaction and at the same time alleviating the condition originally being treated.  This is effectively why your vet has put your lab on this regime and is so insistent that *nothing* else is added.  With Hills and similar prescription only foods, the common potential allergens are there, but broken down into tiny parts so the system hopefully won't recognise them.

>I even asked about Logic toothpaste, and was told very firmly, "NO- not while the trial is in progress!". Anyone else had similar advice?

Absolutely - an exclusion trial is just that - oral intake of everything else but the agreed diet is excluded ;)  This is where these trials tend to fail - usually someone in the household (or other furry family member) will contribute something to the "trial dog" which renders the exercise pointless. 

Despite occasional outcries to the contrary, prescription diets have their place - albeit IME on a more limited basis than they are often suggested by the veterinary profession.

Personally I would have opted for a novel protein and novel carb diet for the dog either commercial or home prepared.  The fact that you normally feed a chicken and rice based diet, then opt for an alternative to BOTH these ingredients  nb. two ingredients the dog has never eaten before but again to the absolute exclusion of everything else.  A very good quality food  which I and many others have used to excellent effect which excludes rice as the main filler is Wafcol Salmon & Potato.  It has not been scientifically engineered to disguise common allergens - they're not in it in the first place - is less than half the price of the prescription diet and readily available elsewhere than from your vet :)   However now that you have started the trial, it is a judgement call whether or not you wish to continue with Hills z/d ultra. 

Should you decide to switch away from this, any food you do decide to change to would still require *a strict regime and the absolute compliance of everyone else in the household* - that's the hard part  :rolleyes:

HTH, good luck, Teri :)

EDITED TO ADD:  chicken is one of the most common protein intolerances - probably because it is one of the most commonly used ;)

Thanks, Teri, that's very helpful. My only niggling doubt about all this is that Luke wasn't showing any obvious symptoms of an allergy before he got the ear infection - so given that the infection clears up with the use of the steroid/anti-infecive drops....how will we know that the exclusion diet trial is or isn't working, if you see what I mean

Hi again ;)

The idea is firstly that the dog is fed the exclusion trial for 8-12 weeks.  If successful (i.e. symptoms completely cured) the next port of call - rarely acceptable to the owners - is that the dog's original diet is reintroduced to determine whether that specific food was the absolute catalyst.  Naturally owners are reluctant on returning a now healthy happy comfortable dog to something which may cause the problem(s) to resurface so the alternative (IMO preferable, but not all vets go with it) is to introduce one additional ingredient every two weeks to see if there is any reaction and if so, the ingredient is easily identified and can be omitted from future feeding.

Personally this is one of the reasons why for relatively minor allergic or intolerant reactions presenting either internal or external symptoms that I don't think prescription diets should be the first port of call in an exclusion trial.  They generally have most of the known "problem" ingredients in there - only in hydrolysed form :(

On the plus side, the fact that you already feed a very good quality low ingredient diet like Burns already, it should be relatively easy to identify ingredients (if that is the cause at all) that are causing ear problems for your boy.  You only really have to rule out chicken and rice plus any chews, treats or tit bits that you offer for training etc.

Hope that's clear!   Teri :)

ps. meant to add my youngster had recurring ear "infections" which were eventually attributed via exclusion trial to soya ;)

Thanks, Teri, I'll let you know how things go! :-)

Hi Carene,

Apologies if this is done and dusted ten times over elsewhere in the past few weeks - I'm not up to speed on many things yet ;)  How's the trial diet doing?  Still on the Z/D?

Regards, Teri

Thanks for your interest, Teri- yes, Luke's still on the Z/D and loving it now - he seemed quite hyperactive at first, but I realised he was actually hungry - now that I've increased the amount he's fine. The ears are still a problem - the vet has just prescribed some different drops- and he's to remain on the Z/D at least until our next appointment, on the 14th Dec - and maybe for another 4 weeks after that.

Thanks for the update ;)   Sorry his ears are still bothering him - everything crossed it's sorted soon.

Regards, Teri

Hi Carene,

How are things going with Luke now?  Hope you're both noticing an improvement ...

Regards, Teri :)

Hello, Teri,
Thank you so much for your concern- I really appreciate it, especially as I'm feeling a bit down about the whole situation at the moment...Luke went to the vet's on the 14th Dec, one ear was still very messy, the other seemed OK. The vet asked us to continue with the food trial for a third month, but prescribed oral antibiotics and wanted to see Luke again in a week, starved in case he needed another GA. I hoped very much that that wouldn't be necessary...but it was. :-( The vet said that although his ears were improved from 2 months ago, there was still wax in both ears, despite my best efforts with all the drops etc. He was very charming, but I suspect he wondered whether we were actually managing to treat Luke effectively....yes he is a handful (Luke not the vet lol) but we have followed instructions implicitly.So we return on the 12th January, when it may be time to consider allergy testing.
The other point of concern is all the ear cleaning drops we've used, as opposed to the steroid sort, seem to irritate his ears - we've now got Aurizon drops to use for 6/7 days, and the cleaning drops on the 7th. I just feel so frustrated that 10 weeks on we're not really that much further forward. :-(

Hi Carene,

Poor Luke and poor you :(   Try not to feel too downhearted as I'm sure you're doing everything possible and following recommendations to the letter :)  The thing to remember when you're feeling a bit low about things is that so far, through no fault of your own, there hasn't been a definitive method provided to alleviate Luke's problems.  Regardless of the outcome when Luke is examined on 7th Jan, IMO it would be advisable to press your vet on whether continuing with the z/d is the way to go.  If the problem is caused or exacerbated by an allergic or intolerant reaction via an ingested source, then it is very possible it's also active within the z/d since Luke has now been on that diet for a substantial period.  Alternatively has your vet discussed possible environmental sources with you?  It's worth pressing him to either look towards formal allergy testing or refer you to a specialist facility sooner rather than later for Luke's comfort and your own peace of mind.

Hoping things start to look brighter for you both soon.  Best wishes and I hope, despite everything, you have a very happy Christmas.

regards, Teri x

Thanks, Teri - the food trial is for 3 months so it's coming to an end. Yes, the vet's talking about allergy testing as the next step, so hopefully things should move on in the new year. A very Happy Christmas to you. :-)

Hi Carene

Just a thought but Moose my eldest Lab has had iffy ears for a while and even with antibiotic drops it didn't seem to clear up. I then tried Thornit (as highly recommended on here ! :0 ) and her ears have improved so much ! )

Hi Carene,

How is Luke doing these days?  I hope no news is good news and his problems have cleared entirely.  Update when you can.

Best wishes, Teri :)

We've now had nearly 3 weeks on Z/D ultra and no ear drops - and all seems well. We have a vet's appointment on Thursday. I'm desperate to try Luke back on Burns again, both because of the cost and also because, although he's OK on the Z/D, he's leaner than I'd like, and it would be good to be able to use something different for training treats. I have to say I'm still not 100 % convinced he has an allergy anyway, but of course I haven't seen the inside of his ears..... Thanks so much for your continued interest.

Hi Carene,

Thanks for the update :)  Hopefully if Luke's ears stand well (not literally :D ) for internal exam you can discuss a dietary change with your vet - fingers crossed.  Even if he wants you to stick with the same kibble meantime (good chance :rolleyes: ) perhaps you could introduce one type of treat for him - say roast chicken.  By only introducing one, fresh food you'll be able to guage if Luke has an adverse reaction and if so withdraw it permanently from his future diet - and when hopefully he's fine with it, he gets goodies again

regards, Teri

Hi Carene, have a look at the site below, it has an ear cleaner called blue ear cleaner that I & many others have used used with great success. Might be helpful if the prob reccurs, ear probs are very often a sign of allergy usually food related. :)

http://www.karistosharpei.co.uk/Ear%20cleaner.htm   and link below is about it

http://itsfortheanimals.com/Adobe/Blue%20Power%20Ear%20Treatment.pdf

Thanks for that - I'll post again on Thursday. :-)

Well, we went to the vet's this morning - he said Luke's ears still showed signs of inflammation & wax, and prescribed Surolan drops to use 1 week in 3, as Luke reacts to all the cleaning drops we've tried. I then said, "What about the food? We really can't afford to keep him on Z/D permanently....he was on Burns before.." to which he replied, "No, OK , I should go back to that, then." Hooray! So now we see how it goes - we return to the vets in 6 weeks' time.