Hi
I'm having a big problem cos my husband wants our 13 week old westie to sleep outdoors in a kennel.
I can't bear the thought of this - he's so little and has been sleeping happily indoors for the last month we've had him.
The problem is that my husband is on early shifts and makes a big drama about cleaning up pup's mess (he's had a little problem with diarrahea but it's improving). So there was a big to-do at 6am this morning and he issued this ultimatum. I've offered to get up myself and clean it up rather than put the puppy through this, and the nights are getting cold too.
I'm blue in the face telling him that things will improve as he gets older and that he's too young to outside for six hours alone in the dark and cold. He won't listen, he's the expert even tho neither of us have owned a dog before.
Maybe I should be posting this in a relationships forum!
Can someone tell me what age is it safe to move a do to sleeping outdoors please? And how on earth do you do it without the poor thing howling all night?
Thanks so much.

The answer is simple, you said it yourself, get up and see to the pup before he does.  Other alternative buy a puppy play pen so the mess is contained, put your puppies basket in there and newspapers or training pads, the mess will be contained until you see to the pup.  Even heavily coated dogs don't have sufficient coat at 13 weeks to keep themselves warm in a kennel so unless you mean to construct a properly heated one you could find yourself with a sick pup on your hands. You will still have the problem of your pup crying for you.  Poor little mite has only just got used to its new situation and now may need to adjust to another harsher one.

I have to admit I agree with you on this one, your husband is expecting way too much from such a young puppy, especially if the pup has had a poorly tummy aswell.

If I were you I'd be getting up as soon as my hubby did and dashing down to clear it up, he will improve with time (the puppy I mean, don't know about the hubby) Your going through the stage a lot of puppy owners go through especially first time puppy owners when your wondering if you've done the right thing and this is turning into a bit of a nightmare, but persevere and in a couple of months time you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.

Good luck and maybe get your hubby to read 'The Perfect Puppy' By Gwen Bailey (the Library may have it) it explains alot and will help your hubby understand your puppy alot better.

Good Luck,

You could buy a cheap second hand baby play pen-the one with mesh sides.  You can get these for around £20-look in your local newspaper or go to a car boot. You can put paper down and fill with his bed, toys and a little bowl of water.
You can throw it away once puppy has grown out of upset tummy.
Try not to put your puppy outside-you will make him un-happy and miss out on his development and his cheeky antics.
Why not put your husband outside for several nights in a tent in the cold and see what he has to say about that.
Be strong and positive.
My husband is not too keen on our two dogs-however we have come up with a compromise-he can go out on his motorbike on one day at the weekend and he must be pleasant to the dogs-a trade off but that is how his brain works-does not take rocket science to work out !!.
By the way if any man is reading this-as if-I think you are all great !!
pm me if you want information on upset Westie tummy.

Even when your pup is older he may be unable to sleep outside, depending on the quality of his coat. Many westies from backyard breeders or puppyfarms have very poor coats and would never be suitable for outside dwelling - only a westie with a proper hard topcoat and substantial undercoat would be able to sleep outside. In my opinion, at 13 weeks old and with a upset tum he should be kept in the warmth and comfort of a home, and then, if hubby still insists and all being well with his coat, he could be moved to a heated kennel when he is a little older. Of course, when he cries all night and keeps the neighbours up make sure you let hubby deal with the complaints :)

You could put the puppy in a crate during the night as they tend not to soil where they sleep. There is no way I would ever leave a dog let alone a puppy out all night. I would howl all night if I was left out in the cold....

There is nothing inherently wrong with a dog sleeping outdoors in a proper kennel which is appropriately furnished or heated depending on the breed,but I don't see how this will solve the toilet training problems, as surely the pup would soil the kennel just the same as the kitchen, and it still would satill need cleaning up.

The price of a proper Kennel is not small think up to twice the price of a garden shed for a nice one. 

Then there is the problem of training the pup to be happy in one as it hasn't been used to it from the start, there is the security risk (easier to steal the pup out of a kennel and run than the house).

Getting up at night to take pup to toilet (to stop the soiling) will be even more unpleasant when it is outdoors.

These arguments might be better than trying to pull on hubbies heart strings while he is exasperated with the pup therefore not that sympathetic to it's felings at the moment, so pointing out the disadvantages to him of his idea wil work better :D :D :D

Just as an aside I can't see why a sturdy breed like a terrier would have a problem with sleeping even in an unheated kennel (this is the UK in a mild Autumn :D) if it is well built and has dry cosy bedding, and the dog is never in it whilst wet.  My own adults sleep in a kennel at night and have done so since they were pups, this is purely for reasons of space as the kitchen just isn't roomy enough for five dog beds.  The kennel is by the backdoor so almost an extension of the kitchen except built of wood.

There are two ways I see to deal with this problem:

1) Get up 15 minutes before hubby, clean up after puppy or let him out so he can 'go' outside if he's managed to hold himself, make hubby breakfast and bat your eyelids at him while telling him what a good puppy you have as he's virtually house trained now.

2) Change the locks while he's out at work and see a solicitor. ;)

It all depends on how much you like him. :D

Sorry but I would never let my dogs sleep outside especially a puppy.  My beagle still wees and poos most nights and she is 11 months and if my husband even suggested it I would divorce him.  Even though she was born in a kennel and lived out there until 4 months she still had her siblings as company.  I dont think it is quite as bad with more than one but one on its own no way.

Brainless,

If it were a larger breed with a heavier coat, I would agree, but a Westie is a very small dog about 16 lbs full grown and much much smaller as a puppy, and would find it hard to keep warm on his own in an unheated kennel :(  At the very least he would need other bodies to snuggle with and very cosy bedding.  How sturdy the dog is will very much depend on how he's been bred, puppy farmed westies are unlikely to be as sturdy as properly bred dogs :(

Personally, I worryabout the safety aspect of keeping dogs outside, easliy stolen and what if some lunatic set fire to the kennel/shed?  - this has happened locally, luckily the shed was empty except for tools.

I didn't recomend kenneling the dog as from a practical point of view it would not be necesary or even help the situation.

As for a Westie being a poor frail mite I think you will find being a native breed of the Scottish Highlands bred to have a thick double coat that should repel all weather even as a puppy it would be perfectly comfortable in a proper kennel with a bed and bedding, even without heating :D

Except that most of the Westies don't have a Thick Double Coat :(  the average Westie on the street has a very poor coat many have very soft limp coats which aren't weatherproof at all  :( :( and at 13 weeks the pup will hardly have an adult coat yet :(

Not suggesting that terriers need coddling and shouldn't sleep out, I know Bedlingtons who are quite happy in kennels, my own dogs sleep in an unheated kitchen extension, a compromise between safety and not keeping the dogs too warm ;)

Personally I'd get a crate and contain things at night until pup is houstrained, then I'd tackle training the OH - if I liked him enough ;) - if not I'd get rid :D :D :D :D

My husband would like our 2 newfies to sleep out side too.  He even started to build a shed for them.  He actually thought I would be pleased when I came home from work and he showed me what he was up to:; I told him they already had a house but if he wanted to move into the shed with his computers he was more than welcome.

:D :D Go girl, Go! :D :D

ha ha i like the second one lol

get a crate put puppy his bed and water and then only newspaper over the rest, this way the pup will only use the newspaper to go to the loo on and it will be very easy to clean in the morning.  if that is not what u want to do then take the pup in to your bedroom and as soon as u hear him wake in the night you get up and take him out so there is no mess to clean

Hi All,
I am not saying that a kennel would be the appropriate choice for this particular dog but, over the time i have been on this list, I have noticed that people seem horrified by the thought of having dogs in outdoor kennels! I have border collies and they quite happily spend time in their outdoor runs through the day. In fact, I have two that, when I bring them INSIDE, they spend their time panting at the door to get back outdoors again! They have large, secure purpose built runs to my specifications with sleeping area, play area and toilet area. I find the idea of dogs left indoors for 8 hours a day with no access to a toilet area, or worse, crated for hours at a time more horrifying than a custom built run/kennel.
JMHO

Goodness that was what I was trying very badly to say. 

I must add that in most urban situations a kennel and run may not work because the dog will be in a position to react more to outside stumulus, and may end up nuisance barking. 

This is so in my case, so the dogs are never left in their kennel when I am out but have to be shut in the kitchen, and the old lady does have accidents if I haven't been able to get her to go to the toilet just before I leave. 

The kennel acts purely as their bedroom at night from 11pm to 7am, so I am not that worried about their beign stolen, they'd have the whole neighbourhood up if someone tried :D

I too find it strange that people seem to think a kennel is cruel, yet think shutting a dog in a small cage isn't????  I also use crates but would never use them for shutting a dog in for any length of time, and usually only when I am there to supervise.  they are great for Hotel rooms so you can have your meals etc.

Do you think people have in mind one of those little apex boxes with a hole cut in one end as in spike in Tom and Jerry, and not a proper enclosed building, when they say Kennel? 

My girls kennel is a 10 foot x 5 foot double (two 5 feet wide kennels with internal connecting door), and is 5feet high and the back and 5feet 6high at the front.  It has opening windows, removable shutters to a weldmesh section under the window for added ventilation in hot weather, a door with pop holes (a sliding access door for the dog which can be left open in the day or closed at night).  Attached to this is a 12 foot by 10 foot weldmesh run, whicfh actually is never closed, as only gets used for puppies to ahve a safe play area, and I just put a board accross the doorway so the others have free access.

All this is is adjacent to my kitchen, which ahs the backdoor open most of the year.

Firstly take control of the situation. I would put puppy in a crate, big enough so that you can have paper one end and his bed the other end. This means hubby does not have to clean up first thing. Perhaps you can even put the crate in a room that Hubby does not go into in the mornings. Secondly  - perhaps  you both need to sit down and decide who does what for puppy, and puppy is still just that - a puppy.

I don't have a problem with dogs sleeping outdoors, but do you have adequate draft free accommodation or would we be talking about  Snoopy like accommodation?

Hi
If I can add a little something here, it would be to ask what actually happens when your husband gets up. (Please join Guest so you can take part. :) ) My husband often starts work at 6 am so has to be up at 5 am the very latest. I've got two puppies at the moment, one 6 months, the other just under 6 months. If my husband gets up and  goes in the bathroom or does anything at all, he WILL wake the dogs up (well they hear him as soon as he comes downstairs and they wake up) and the puppies WILL pee as puppies do when they wake. So what he does is to go downstairs, let the dogs (I've got several adults as well) out into the garden before he does anything else, leave them out for a few minutes, and then let them back in. They settle back down again and go back to sleep, no accidents indoors, and best of all I get to sleep in and if I get up at 9 the floor is clean and was even when the pups were much younger. :D

So it can actually be a big advantage having a husband that has to be up early, as long as he gets into the habit of taking the puppy outside first thing. It need only take 5 minutes of his time. And I'm sure as soon as your pup's upset stomach has settled the floor will not be a mess when you husband gets up, and will stay clean if he takes the puppy outside. (And I too would vote for a crate to sleep in, helps a lot.)

Brainless,

You're spot on with the reference to Spike's kennel ;)  Unfortunately I know too many dogs who actually live in one of those all year round and its extremely cruel :(  In the summer they get too hot and in the winter they can't keep warm :( yet the owner thinks that as its a 'bought' kennel its the right thing to use :( :(

The Bedlingtons I know are all in 'proper' kennels, and there's a big difference :)   I grew up with a Corgi who was kept in a small shed at night, he had plenty of hay to burrow into and it was actually warmer than our house (think REALLY basic 2 up 2 down,1 coal fire) as it was in a sheltered position and was very snug and draught free.

Brainless

I also think you're right about people's perceptions of outdoor kennels.  You see the Tom & Jerry type kennels outside Pets at Home.  Unfortunately when my husband suggested kennels that what he was thinking of as well :rolleyes:  When I asked him if he was prepared to build or buy a substantial robust kennel he thought I was barmy.  Anyway son's bike got stolen only 2 weeks ago :( and couple of years ago a woman got threatened with a knife by two men who wanted her dog  :( :(  I Wouldn't feel my dog was safe leaving her outside when I wasn't here.  Don't have anything against kennels, it's just a matter of preference and lifestyles.

As I said in most urban situations a keennel would likely not be a good idea for when the owner is not around.

sorry, I was agreeing with you :)

Yes, I go to the bathroom then straight downstairs to let the puppy out before doing anything else! If you do that and clear up any mess before hubby sees it he shouldn't have any cause to complain. I wouldn't keep a young puppy outside either - I know terriers are generally hardy breeds, but I just wouldn't do it! :-)

If all else fails the husband should be PTS

yes get rid of hubby dogs r more loveing

I can sympathise with your husband as the past two mornings i have woken up to big poos in the kitchen from our golden retriever, and i mean huge!!! and although i felt like putting a kennel outside i never would, i know it doesn't do dogs any harm but i would feel like i was locking him out of the family home. So maybe it's all talk and when it comes to the crunch your husband will soften. It's amazing what cute animals can do to a man!!! Hope it all works out well for you and your westie.

Hi,

No.1 Do not let hubby bully you! By no means he is no expert. It's your house too, and your dog! Stand your ground.
No.2 He probably was just grumpy and tired when he said it, and will be ok on his return. (Hopefully)
No.3 Under no circumstances must you put your pup outside, I have very rarely heard of Westie's being outdoor kennel dogs and especially a pup it would be downright cruel and your pup would become ill.

As suggested containment is the answer, buy a puppy gate fit it across your kitchen or whichever room you wish to contain your pup in, place pups bed, toys, food and water there and put lots of newspaper down.  Most men are adverse to cleaning up poops and wee's so make sure you are up first to do it.

A pup can not hold itself all night for many months to come, so be prepared for some hard work.  With patience and rewards you will soon have your pup trained.  Do NOT let your husband shout at your pup!

I wish you luck, your westie will grow up to be a beautiful dog, the first year is always the hardest. Just persevere.

if it was my oh hede be sleeping outside befor any of my dogs would lol.
he rearly is to young to be outside and expecially now winter is aproaching,if it was me ide look into getting a play pen.

I would ask wether the husband  of the guest had been in on the decision to get a puppy and if so why cant he be patient a little longer. some pups learn quickly some do not. in this case also I would agree a large cage may be the short term answer and the getting up a bit earlier to clean up .