i am interested in one of the above breeds but cant make my mind up to which one would be the better bet. i am a sporting person so excersise wount be a problem and have ample space. And does both breeds some times have Blue eyes.

You need to read up carefully on both breeds and decide which if either is the right breed for you.
Both are demanding breeds with their own traits and are generally breeds which cannot be let off leads.
After looking into them I would suggest that you speak to their breed societies and get some experienced advice.
It would be difficult to advise which of these to go for without knowing your commitments.
Why don't you join and people with more experience on these breeds would be able to advise.
Think very carefully about whether these breeds are right for you.

There are other breeds with similar appearance that are not quite as demanding. 

Both breeds are best suited to thsoe who actually want a dog to actually pull sleds/rigs as this is the best way to excersise them.  For those who really want a pet maybe a different bred of Spitz would make a better pet.  They are both wonderful breeds with loving natures abut not ideal as the average pet.

If your not put off then I suggest you attend some events run by the breed societies for both breeds, rallies and shows, and you will be able to get a ral feel for them warts an all.

Good luck with your research. :D

You are reaching the ideal time of the year to get out and meet owners of both breeds. If you look under "current season" on www.snopeak.net you will see a list of the rallies being held around the UK. I would suggest making the effort to go along and see examples of both breeds.

Both breeds are excellent landscape gardeners, both shed copious amounts of hair twice a year, both can be vocal, both need regular excercise, both need a home where clear rules are set and adhered to, both are intelligent breeds needing mental as well as physical stimulation, the list goes on. A level of experience of dog ownership is required (in my opinion) as both breeds will go through a teenage period where they will test their family and the family as a whole must stand firm to keep the dogs in their place. Too many get to this stage and end up in rescue.

In answer to your final question.... Huskies can have blue eyes, Malamutes have brown eyes.

One consideration is it's a lot easier to get a Sibe puppy than a Malamute puppy. And Malamutes are considerably bigger and heavier on average than a Sibe. If it's your first dog, I'd forget either breed as you really need to know what you are doing and what you are taking on. It would be like thinking you know what you're doing driving a F1 race car just because you can ride a pushbike. The most important thing is to meet as many dogs and owners as you can of both breeds.

Where do you live? As well as going to a rally to see what these dogs love to do, Discover Dogs is coming up soon in London so maybe you could pop along to see both breeds (and lots of others) and talk to owners. http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/

by looking into these breeds and meeting as many as possible and talking to the owners, you will get a good idea of whether them as dogs will fit into your lifestyle. another breed worth considering it the Utonagan, as a breed it was originally a cross of siberian husky, alaskan malamute and german shepherd. they do not have the same reputation as the sibe perhaps does of not being able to be let off lead and can have wonderful temperaments. (i would never say any breed all have brilliant temps or all awful-each dog is different)
good luck in finding the right dog for you

But remember, utonagons are not recognised by the KC as a breed and, as such, cannot be shown at most shows ( if the OP was at all interested in showing :) )

Definately look into both breeds talking to both the breed societies is probably the best idea and definately see what they are like in the flesh and talk to owners, once you have decided which breed you wish to go for (if either of them) once again go and watch them at shows and rallies and see what TYPE catch your eye as they`re are different types with in a breed especially with huskies the american bred lines are much chunkier than the english.
Once you have seen what type you like ask owners etc what lines their dogs are from and possibly get in contact with those dogs breeders

Always make sure both breeds have been hip and eye tested and hold current certificates (within the last year is best I think(?) )

And please (I dont mean any offence when I say this OP) but please do not go with a breed because of the colour of its eyes

Why not join the board its quick and free and theres plenty of malamute and husky owners who can offer future advice

well put cyrus.

no reputable breeder would sell a husky or mal for eye or coat colour. breeders will probably want to meet you first and some like you to come to their kennel so you can see what the dogs are really like.

with regards to type, you must first decide what you want your dog for. obviously a pet, but if you want to work there are some lines that work better than others. for example in huskies you wont tend to see the american show type at rallies. they are mainly at shows. it is good to go to both shows and rallies to see which type you like, they can look very different.

as cyrus has said, parents should be hip/eye tested and you should be able to see certificates if you ask. you should be able to see puppies with their mother and pups should not be offered to you before 8 weeks old. some kennles keep puppies for a little longer. ideally, breeders should be members of the breed clubs and adhere to their code of ethics.

that is true Melodysk, it just didnt sound to me like 'guest' was interested, but you never know i guess! yes they are not reconised yet, but i know of one person who has been having great success at kennel club shows and in pedigree classes, getting places with rossettes most times!

Oooh really? In what class and with what dog?

> but i know of one person who has been having great success at kennel club shows and in pedigree classes, getting places with rossettes most times! <

Presumably these are Companion Shows which are open to any dog(except Champions & JW winners)at which the judge may or may not know anything about dogs

They cannot even enter any other KC show in breed classes & TBH should not be in the breed classes at Companion Shows either(according to KC rules that is as they are not a KC recognizd breed)

As they're not a KC recognised breed, they can only be entered in Companion shows (previously called Exemption Shows, because they were exempt from KC regulations). A Utanogan has certainly done well at 'Scruffts', the KC-run show where only cross-breeds (not pure breeds) are allowed to enter.

They should not be in the "pedigree" classes at companion shows - they are not a recognised breed so not eligible for the class and certainly in my area most "utonogan" (prob not affiliated with any of the "breed clubs" ) are most definitely first generation or secvond generation cross breeds.

hey, me again, to answer your question typing out would take a while! but if you search in google (as i cant put links in here it seems to make it quicker) for 'Twatha Utonagan', clikc on the first site that comes up, on the front page is a pic of three dogs and people, click on that, and you'll see all the show successes utonagan have had, some not in pedigree dogs classes, others with, including the judges kennels as proof.
hope that helps :)

All those shows are companion shows, where anything canine can enter! ;) Basically, if a dog is able to be entered in Scruffts, it can't be entered in Pedigree classes, as Scruffts is only for crossbreeds!

thanks for reply, sorry-im not a showing expert-but was told that not all dogs can enter the pedigree classes in companion shows.
please can you clear this up for me?
the same dog has been allowed to compete in scruffts (iax) and then also in several pedigree classes, now i really am confused!

Last time I was at one, only dogs of KC recognised breeds can be entered in pedigree classes at companion shows.

oh right, i guess someones changed something then, because as i said in my edit or previous post, he was in scruffts and then has been in several pedigree classes...

I think the problem is that, as companion shows are just a bit of fun, the people taking the entries often don't know what they're doing, bless them! :D The pedigrees have to be judged to the breed standard, just as in conventional shows. If the judge doesn't know the standard, the judgment isn't very valid ...

It still is the official rule(& hasn't changed since Exemption shows were first licenced), however as many shows are run by people who have no idea about KC recognized breeds & sometimes judged by similar, you often get "designer"crosses entered & of course the classic Yorkshire Terrier in the sporting classes as it is a "terrier" as well/instead of as the non sporting(or toy) classes

I even had a short legged JRT as Res BIS as it was the second soundest dog in the show after a veteran Chow Chow

Being a "show"person at our show we have the dogs in the right classes & regularly have problems with "Doodle" owners who will not accept their X breeds are not a recognised breed. LOL I now have a list from the KC of the breeds acceptable in the pedigree classes.

:rolleyes: There is a guy locally who enters his"BC"in the pedigree class & also in the X breed classes at most shows(it's an obvious non BC)Oddly enough under a local vet & a local vicar he won both classes !!!!!!

They were originally called Exemption shows as the dogs entered were exempted from being KC registered pedigree breeds-not from being  non KC recognized breeds. Officially dogs on the import register are also not eligible BTW

So even some KC recognised breeds aren't allowed to be entered? Wow!

thanks for the info. yes they are a bit of fun, but for a breed like us they offer an invaluable stage for people seeing the dogs. and when kc judges give you a rossette, it still means something to us and our breed.
i know we're possibly a long way off from being kc recognised, but every show we get placed at is something, even the companion shows.
thanks for your help. and also the extra info should help the 'guest' poster, if theyve actually looked back at this thread.
thanks (",)
p.s. lovely website moonmaiden!

My KC rules are in the car & it's too cold to go & get them, but I think what stops the Imp Reg dogs is the fact they are only allowed in Imp Reg Classes & I don't think you can have them at Companion shows !

I sometimes take my two Mals to Companion shows and more often than not the judges have no clue as to what they are. When I say that they are Alaskan Malamutes the most common response is "a Mala what"? Nearly every single judge has judged them as an overgrown Sibe :rolleyes: :D It is all for fun though :) However I have found that judges often don't know some of the breeds they are actually judging.

Often at Companion shows peopel are very "polite" and tolerate people entering totally inappropriate dogs in the wrong classes, or the organisers are not aware of rules - which IMO they should be.
This is why sometimes one sees mixed breeds, "Utonogans", "Northern Inuits" etc in the pedigree classes and also why sometimes you end up with a spaniel in the working class (it is a working dog you know ...!!)

Yikes just visited the http://www.twatha-utonagan.com/ as suggested earlier up this thread .... this "breeder" is suggested or certainly appears to be as far as I can gather that if one wishes to own opposite sex dogs to make sure they are not related as they will mate come what may .... ??????
Responsible breeding???????
Would prefer not to see such photos eother ... very strange site, thought parts of it were joking initially but apparently not??????????

Ah all is explained Ms Jan Fennell has one of these & low & behold the dogs are placed under a dog whisperer at one of the Companion show !

Now Scrufts is for cross breeds yet these dogs are show in pedigree classes :rolleyes: obviously these mongrels/crossbreed owners what their cake & to eat it too

It is highly unlikely they will ever be KC recognised, I've been speaking to one of the KC committee members who would make such a decision & the words h*ll & freezing over were used !

LOL I had one of my ISDS reg BCs at a companion show & got told by the KC CC BC judge I shouldn't be in the pedigree classes with my mongrel(actually Brett was quite a good type & was placed under other CC judges ! at real shows). I bet I would get the same response with my Roy as he's a smooth coated ISDS BC & nothing like the heavy coated big KC BCs

The site also says they have been registered with the BVA!  Never knew they kept a breed registry :rolleyes: Very strange stuff all round :)

A very interesting site.  3 dogs hip scores after "Occurences have occured with devastating effect".  Epilepsy, cataracts, and monorchidism have all been recorded.  Considering it is such a new "breed", it does seem to have more than it's fair share of problems! :(
I don't think that I'd be trying to impress with 6th in Puppy and 6th in Open with the same dog at a Companion Show!!!
Very strange stuff indeed Isabel! 
I think that Guest would be well advised to stick with an established Kennel Club registered breed.

An owner on another site had his bitch spayed & she's due to have a hip operation(if she hasn't already had it)one hip joint is none existant & the other has no proper socket so might also have to be operated on. Don't know who bred her, but the owner was totally devastated she's on loads of pain killers due to her hips

Looked at www site mentioned again and this person appears to have bred from bitches of about 15 months of age, even those with pretty dreadful hipscores ..... part pf me was starting to believe that some people were doing things the right way for this mix to one day become a recognised breed by those other than enthusiasts but after seeing this site then ....goodness :(

personally, i dont agree with these 'designer crosses' as a sibe and GSD owner who also knows a lot of mals, these are three breeds i would never consider crossing! the breed traits dont compliment each other at all and i cant see any reason for crossing these breeds. 'to look as much like the wolf as possible' is the reason for producing this type of mongrel. not a very good reason in my book. fair enough if it was being done for a reson like to produce a better sled dog but with this mix you aren't going to get that at all!

it just seems very like people wanting to make a quick buck and wanting to have a unique dog that really has no function whatsoever.

There not even uniqie in that aim, as there are already two internationally recognised breeds that are wolf look alikes.  The Saarloos and the Chech Wolf dog.

I've had a long 'discussion' on another board about this breed.One of my main arguements is that there is no set breed type....the answer to that is that there are many types of wolf and that as long as they look like one of them then there gaol is achieved!!!!
I know some people are very serious about this type of dog but I think(and I'm afraid hope) that they are kidding themselves by thinking they are near to being recognised.
Archer

hi brainless-unlike those two recognised breeds, the utonagan aren't crossed with wolves, thats the whole point.
about the hipscores and other health problems...before the breeder who did that site got involved with the breed, noone hipscored (which i think was stupid because who would add a breed in such as a gsd which is known for sometimes bad hips-and not hipscore?) and she herself has started the hipscoring programme, and eyetesting and other areas of health. some of the people who had previously been breeders made a mess of the dogs and their health, with soem fo the problems you have mentioned being the result. the author of the site has been trying her best to secure the future of this breed and its health-this was not met well and first, but now she is in a better position to make these changes. yes, the breed are having their hip scores sent to the bva, we in no way think this means they are now 'recognised' by anyone other than the bva, but at least it means the hip scores are official and we can get a breed average.
about the not getting related dogs of opposite sex, this is because there are accidents, as with owners of ANY breed, noone can say that only utonagan owners would get it wrong and let an accidental mating happen, so she is warning new owners that this is always a possibility that is trying to be prevented.
im sorry if 6th isnt good enough to brag about, but for us, any small sucess is something to be happy about, and as someone said, no, i dont think being recognised is amazingly close, but i hope one day possible, thats why the changes such as hip scoring and better records are being made so that this can one day happen.
thank you for your comments, im sorry if i didnt answer them all or satisfactorily, but i tried my best!
peace out

We have two dogs and two bicthes where the dogs are from different lines however would never even consider breeding them together! "accidents" don't happen if your careful.  for over 9 years now we have kept dogs and bicthes and never had a problem.

untill we had one bicth spayed we had 3 entire adults (one male 2 female) who had health reasons not to be bred from, the other hasn't had his eyes done for about 5 years and never had his hips done because we knew we would never use him at stud because of his temprement.  Many other people also don't have "accidents" so I don't see why they might happen unless people were going to be careles :(

im sorry if 6th isnt good enough to brag about, but for us, any small sucess is something to be happy about
If you would talking about somebody showing their pet dog, then I would agree with you completely. Generally speaking, and as always there are exceptions, Companion Shows are a fun afternoon out, judged by people who rarely know all the breed standards and at best are just looking for a basically sound dog.  As with all showing, the most important thing is that we all consider that we are taking the best dog home.
But as a site professing to be trying to establish a new breed, it shows a high level of ignorance of basic genetics, breeding and animal husbandry.  If the aim was to be admired, then the basic aims need to be much higher, hence my original comment. :(

i agree with you ice queen, accidents should not be allowed to happen and yes, just because dogs arent related, doesnt mean they should be bred from. this said, there is no accounting for everyone, some people think its ok to put brother to sister and so on and that if no related-whats the harm...so that page was set up so that people who had not had dogs before.
hi val, i do agree with the first part and tho the dog isnt mine, so i cant comment fully, but yes, they are supposed to be fun afternoons and i know that they arent the same as being at the other, more official shows.
"But as a site professing to be trying to establish a new breed, it shows a high level of ignorance of basic genetics, breeding and animal husbandry.  If the aim was to be admired, then the basic aims need to be much higher, hence my original comment. " - im sorry, im not quite sure what you mean...

Basically, as someone's 'look at my lovely pets' site, it's fine. If it's aiming for 'this is a new breed, to be taken seriously' then they need to think again.

could you pm me (so we dont take up any more of this guests thread) with how you think it could be improved for the aim of being taken 'more seriously'? I really am interested to know :)

Can I just say (having followed this subject with interest for quite a while) that until this "breed" gets a proper Breed Standard it cannot expect to be taken seriously. eg something which describes the tail in a little more detail than just giving its length :( . Without a half decent standard it will never even be considered for recognition by the KC anyway.

Good point - there's no mention of tail carriage at all.

Hi,
If I were you I would do my homework on both breeds.
As they are pack dogs, and need firm handling.
They need a lot of time and care, especially in the early days,
and there teens.
Regards
Denese