My 2 year old lab retriever called Murphy has suffered around 3 or 4, more perhaps of these so called "seizures" in the last year.  Please help!! The vet states that because he is not having them on a regular basis and they do not last long enough, approx 3 minutes there is no point treating him.  Blood tests come back normal.  The "seizures" occur like this:  Murphy could be either fast asleep of out for a walk when they occur.  Symptoms are that he suddenly looks at me with wild staring eyes and begins to shake as if he is frightened.  He then makes noises as if he were going to be sick as does his stomach.  He begins to drip water from his mouth, which is quite frothy.  He then runs off and drops to the floor and begins shaking violently, he does not thrash about.  He becomes stiff as a board as if he were dead and his two front legs part very wide, his claws fully extend gripping to the floor. He continues to shake and stare wildly.  This lasts approx minutes.  When the attack is over, he begins crying and cannot get up off the floor.  He becomes very uneasy and wobbly and attempts to walk around very unstable.  He begins to sniff and lick the areas that he has been in previous to the attack.  He then has a drink or some food.  His bottom area becomes very wet and smelly.  Like I said, He only gets these attacks approx every 4 months up to now and blood tests reveal all is well.  I am terrified that he could have a fit in the night or if he is home alone.  I usually get ontop of him and try to cover his eyes.  The first time he had a seizure, my dad thought he was afraid of being sick and put this hand down Murphys throat thinking he had swallowed his tongue.  Murphy clamped down hard on his hand. understandably, however he did not know where he was.  Please advise.  Thank You Karan.x

Hi Karan,

My 2 year old dog has exactly the same thing. Like your vet they have decided to leave well alone as the fits are infrequent. I was told there is no treatment only control, and if the dog is not fitting often the treatment can be worse than the fits. I was advised to leave the dog whilst fitting, don't touch him as he could be confused and bite. After the fit sit quietly with the dog, I know this is hard in a field but it helps then begin to stroke and reasure. Fits cause hunger and extreme thirst afterwards so feeding and watering is the right thing to do, we then leave harvey to sleep it off quietly, the aftereffects can last for a couple of hours. Sorry I can not offer a cure but this has worked for us for a year now. I kept a diary after the first fit and noticed that Harvey became very clingy before a fit, I know see this a sign and get him to a safe dark place to lie down. The smell is caused by wee and an anal gland secretion. I wipe Harvs down with a baby wipes afterwards and the act of stroking seems to calm and help him recover. Hope this helps a bit I know it is very scary and upsetting to watch. Good luck

Jacquie

Hi Karan,
I have a Border Collie with Epilepsy and can understand how frightening this is for you to witness.
First off, from what you describe it sounds like you a describing a fairly typical Grand Mal seizure. Your dog goes through two stages which usually start with a "shaking" and then a rigid stage. During this time your dog is more than likely to loose control of his bladder and sometimes his bowels. The phase after the seizure is known as the "post-ictal" phase where he will be disorientated, confused, unsteady etc. This can last from a few hours to a few days.
Your vet is correct in that seizures are not normally treated unless they "cluster" (that is, have more than one seizure in a short period of time) OR they have seizures less than a month apart. Anti-epileptic medications can give dogs some undesirable side effects so vets like to avoid them as much as is possible.
As for what you can do!
(1) Keep a diary of fits and of how long they lasted etc
(2) When he is fitting - DO NOTHING! Just make sure he is safe and not banging his head or endangering his safety. If you need to move him for safety reasons, keep your hands away from his mouth. He is completely unaware of his surroundings at this time and has no control over his muscles (including the jaw).
(3) After he has fitted, don't feed him a meal straight away. Its a concern that he might go back into another fit and you dont want him to have a full stomach immediately. Try a little bit of organic ice cream slightly melted. This will boost his blood sugar (he has ran the equivalent of a good few miles during that short fit!). Its also a good idea to buy a bottle of rescue remedy and pop a few drops on his tongue after he has stopped fitting. This seems to aid the recovery period.
(4) After a couple of hours, you can then feed him a small meal of his usual diet. He will be ravenous by this stage.

These are some ideas that might help. Some other things you might want to consider are:
(1) His diet - there is some thinking that artificial additives in commercial food can worsen seizures.
(2) Feeding regime - some people think that seizures might be a result of lowered blood sugar. Feed him at least twice a day and a little snack at bedtime to see him through the night
(3) Consider neutering if not already done - some evidence that spaying can reduce the frequency of seizures (and you certainly don't want this dog to be used for breeding anway - epilepsy is considered to have some degree of hereditary nature)

I understand how very frightening this is for you to witness. There is so much you can learn about this condition. I recommend the website http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/ for a lot of valuable info and tips.

Good Luck
xxx

Some other things I forgot to mention!
When he comes round from a fit - be there but at a slight distance. Most dogs don't recognise their owners at this stage and there have been cases of dogs showing aggressive behaviour to their owners. I sit on the floor a little bit away from my dog and allow him to come to me. He normally sniffs all over my face and then seems to start recalling who I am. Its at this stage I know I can tell him what a good boy he is.
As for fitting when you cannot witness it. Well, you can't always be with him. This is something I found very difficult when my dog first started having seizures.
The only thing you can do is make sure his environment is safe. That is, no high sofas or beds he might fall from or heavy furniture he might bang his head against. I have an outdoor run that I use for my dog but I know some people who use large crates.
I really hope this info helps.
Take care
xxxx

Colliecrew - I just read your response to the OP, and I thought it was excellent.
I have a cat who fits, every few months or so, and like you have both said, the vet is unwiling to put him on medication - which i understand fully.

Really, I just wanted to say thanks, there was some excellent info in your posts, and a few things I will try for my boy.

Regards
Lisa

Hi guys,

I'm in exactly the same position with my working lab Kester, who's 2 1/2, and I just thought that I'd add something else. When your dog is fitting, if possible, try to darken the room, I always try to draw the curtains and turn off the telly, music etc. My vet has said that this will lessen any outside stimulus which may keep the fit going. Try not to panic, keep calm and talk to him, at a safe distance, and be aware of any other pets around or kids. My kids have been 'briefed' on what to do if Kester has one of his funny 'turns', generally to find me and tell me if I don't know about it and to stay away in case he snaps by accident.
My other dogs get pretty worried when it happens, and tend to stay away too, but they always come and 'comfort' him after it happens not right in his face, but near enough so he knows they are there - Bless!

It's reassuring to know that there are others in the same boat, you can always come on CD for a moan.

Ali :)

So sorry for you, Karan. I think the best bet is to find a vet specialized in canine neurological disorders.

You also should contact the breeder.  Best of luck to both of you.

Ok, this sounds far more likely to be CECS than any type of Epilepsy.  CECS or Canine Epileptoid cramping syndrome, is a disease previously confused with Epilepsy in Labradors and Border Terriers, it does affect other breeds too.  ANY Epilepsy drug will NOT help this condition and the main thing to look for in a CECS dog that is different to an Epileptic dog is that a CECS dog is AWARE of its surroundings and will try to respond.  They rarely wee or mess, they are rigid, cramping.  Look here http://www.borderterrier-cecs.com/  its a Border site but you can get videos of Labs cramping via it, look at the pics and watch the videos, if you think this is what your dog might have, PLEASE give the info to your VET, order the CD's (free) and make them watch them as many Vets do not want to admit they have mis-diagnosed a condition and more so with a condition they have not heard of.  Let me know.
Dawn.

Thank you all for your kind words and suggestions.  I have found them all really helpfull and am enjoying the reading. Thank you to Dawn re your suggestion of CECS.  From the website that you suggested and having read it and viewed the videos I am convinced this is whst Murphy is suffering from.  He is due a check up shortly so I will certainly be mentioning CECS to the vet and showing him the CECS material from the web site.  Again a big thank you and will keep you posted ov any developments.  Karan XX

Hi Dawn,
Very interesting to read about this condition. I am interested to know however what makes you think that the OP's dog is more likely to be suffering from CECS as opposed to canine epilepsy?
Please don't think I am challenging your post, I would just like to understand more.