Can anyone recommend a behaviourist in the North of England area ?? It is for a friend who is having fairly severe aggression problems with her dog.....

They are not sure whether it is fear aggression, as the dog will give no warning signals, it will just ''go in'' and bite another dog, and can also be very guarding when in certain situations........

Obviously because no-one can read his body language or can understand why he does the things he does, they don't know what to do with him next.... He should be at the bottom of their ''pack order'', and he does try to be pushy and bolshy sometimes and will get told and put back in his place..... He lives with other dogs, and for most of the time, there are no problems betweeen them......
This is turning into a fairly serious situation, and they need some help and guidance as soon as possible......

Anyone know of anyone suitable to see them ??

Thanks,
Gabrielle x

Hi Gabrielle - can they not take the dog to their vets for an assessment ?  The vet will be able to recommend a good behaviourist and this way they 'should' be able to get help for the payment (behaviourists are not cheap !) from their insurance company.  At the same time the vet will be able to have a good look at the dog to rule out any medical condition that is causing his aggression.

HTH Tara x

Hrm.

Id warrant its got very little to do with him needing to be bottom of the pack.

Also, in my experience, vets very rarely recommend a good behaviourist!

First, ascertain wether the dog is in fact suffering from some medical cause.

Then google UKRCB and find the behaviourist nearest to you (if you have transport, try dr daniel mills).

Em

Hi Tara,
          The thing is, the dog is as good as gold at the vets, and I don't think that the vet thinks the problem is serious enough, as they haven't seen him when he flies in at something....... He has been thoroughly checked over and no health problems found.........
It is as if, the dog just has a ''brain storm'' if something even looks the wrong way at him. It could be dogs, bitches or heaven forbid one of these days, even a child...... The dog is very responsive towards his owners and does well at obedience, but cannot be allowed to compete in case it takes a dislike to anything during the ''stays'' and causes a riot !!!!! The dog is much loved but they are really coming to the end of their tehter with it as it is so unpredictable, and they don't know where to turn next.......

Gabrielle x

Which breed is he Gabrielle?

Hi Admin,
             He is a crossbreed. ;-)  (not sure what) The owner is fairly experienced and he has had dogs for years, usually smaller ones than he has now. This boy is fairly big......

Gabrielle

John Rogerson or one of his associates

Thanx Tohme,
                   Do you know where he is based ??
Gabrielle x

Hi Gabrielle,

he was in Durham for many years - not sure if that's still his base.  He has a website HERE however the home page doesn't seem to be on-line at the moment (possibly just a technical problem overnight).  There is however an email contact for his webmaster there should that be the right neck of the woods for you.

HTH, regards, Teri :) 

I agree John Rogerson would be the best bet, if not see www.dog-partnership.co.uk for Angela Stockdale - she's in the South, but does travel and will even stay in the owner's home. She's very good.

I'd also agree on a vetcheck etc, but problem is many vets will give a cursory checkover, when some dogs will need more (blood tests, neuro tests etc).

Good luck

Lindsay
x

Gabrielle,

We have just had a dog behaviourist from www.barkbusters.co.uk = we have two old english sheepdogs, Millie is 1 year and Max is 16 weeks.  Because we bought Max later, we were seeing from very jealous behaviour from Millie to the point where last week she had three go's at him - drawing blood each time.  Ray came - we were very skeptical at first but he was here for over 3 hours teaching us techniques to control the dogs.  They are not cheap but we feel alot better now and we have had no major scraps this week in fact they are currently in the utility room drying off from running around the garden all morning.

Please be aware that anyone can become a "behaviourist" with Barkbusters.  It is a franchise and no previous experience is necessary, just take part in a 6 week course.

http://www.barkbusters.co.uk/bus_opp.htm

It might be advisable to consult someone who has actually had years of experience with differing breeds and who belongs to a reputable professional organisation such as the APBC.

This is of course only my opinion.

I am aware of that - what I am saying is that he was friendly, professional and helped us see where we were going wrong. 

I think the point Tohme was trying to make there is that YOU might be aware that Barkbusters franchise owners need only a 6 week training course, but OTHER people might not be!

The people offering behavioural advice from Barkbusters may well be highly experienced dog owners with an indepth understanding of dog behaviour.

They might be bored, have a lot of money to buy their franchise, and never owned a dog in their lives!

You just dont know, hence looking for an APBC, UKRCB, etc etc .....

Em

"It might be advisable to consult someone who has actually had years of experience with differing breeds and who belongs to a reputable professional organisation such as the APBC"

Interesting comment. I was under the impression that not all behaviourists had "years of experience with differing breeds". Can you confirm that all behaviourists now must have years of experience before they are allowed to practise? How many years are considered to be 'years'? There are many people in this world that have a vast amount of experience, but may not necessarily be associated with this organisation or any other. Not being a member of the APBC does not mean that they do not know their subject.

Of course there are many very talented and gifted people who have nothing after their name but a full stop.

Inclusion into the ranks of the APBC requires a) academic qualifications and b) empirical knowledge.

The criteria is publlished on their web page.

The fact that a particular behaviourist is not accredited to a professional body such as the APBC does not of course mean they do not know their subject, however, as in many other fields, one needs a starting point with a recognised standard of excellence, just as you would be better off with a CORGI affiliated gas fitter etc

"however, as in many other fields, one needs a starting point with a recognised standard of excellence, just as you would be better off with a CORGI affiliated gas fitter etc"

BBC TV Rogue Traders:

"Of course, using a CORGI affiliated gas fitter does not mean you will not be over charged or ripped off. It just means that they will have reached a certain degree of training at some point"

Yes, to be come a member of the APBC is extremely difficult and they MUST have years experience working under veterinary referral before they are allowed to become members. This is for the very reason that there are very many so-called behaviourists out there with little knowledge and little hands-on experience.

This is the reason why a lot people recommend APBC and UKRCB members to tackle the very serious problems that behaviourists have to deal with.

It is just an assurance that the person is qualified and experienced.

I have also not heard very many good reports about barkbusters, so beware. I've not had any personal experiences with them though.

>This is for the very reason that there are very many so-called behaviourists out there with little knowledge and little hands-on experience.

So why did you call people who expressed surprise that that there are 'experts' who may not ever have handled a dog, 'derogatory and negative'?

Behaviourist is not recognised title neither is trainer,anyone know either one who has trained a SAR St Bernard for glacier mountain rescue?
Behaviourist/trainer-has anyone toilet trained their dog-that means you have performed a 'behioural technique or a training technique.
No, a behaviourist is a commercial title nothing more and any organisation is a self promoting commercial organisation each in compettion with any similar organisation, dog therapist is another which means nothing, anything and everything and NOTHING specific beyond a self employed work title.
I have heard some good things about Barkbusters but those connected with APBC or the other trade body APDC or UKCCB try to eleiminate Barkbusters from compettion by saying or implying 'They' meaning all Barkbusters, are no good but the others are implied to be 'All' good the reality is they are ALL in commercial competion.
Barkbusters is VERY recent and allready they have their competitiors worried and allready they are being recomended increasingly on most dog sites, so why are people changing from the established buisnesess APDT & APBC? only so many can share a lucrative private enterprise cake.
There is no recognised qualification for any of them, although they promote themselves as being 'qualified', thats nothing more than a commercial plug which works with some new pet owners.

Barkbusters is not recent at all, my sister sent me a cutting from a UK newspaper about their franchise some years ago now.

As for reputable behaviourists being worried - are you having a laugh?

I know people who have seen dogs after a certain franchise, and let's say they are having to put right problems caused by throw chains, all sorts.

Some of us have a very real reason for supporting who we do and preferring some over others.

Well sure, we all have preferences in everything in life and its quite normal for humans to 'deny' any failings to ourselves and defend to the rest of the world e.g. -"It could not have been him, he is my son".
One famous example in the UK dog world is Dr Roger Mugford, people think he is a vet, he is not, he has a Phd in human psychology and as a works title called himself a behaviourist, sometimes a dog psychologist, he made his name by being quite a character on a 5pm(ish) TV slot called 'The Company of Animals', I dont even remember dogs being there, not surprising as he got his Phd by writeing on paper on lab rat experiments he did. I do remember he had that X factor as a mini TV celeb of the time. That's what it was with Barbara Woodhouse, she had a TV charisma, quite ecentric, and despite hanging all the dogs she ever came across she was a nationaly  highly acclaimed and respected dog trainer of the period, why? because she was a TV character. She was a dog behaviourist because she dealt with dog behaviour.
Now we have another on TV, I so far have not seen her show but if she does anything new then her methods will be the next generation of methods, why? because she has become a contempory TV character, prime time too.
To sum up its not about dogs or methods,good or bad trainers/behaviourists its commercial techniques which attract the money, no proof needed if the words are appealing,+ being in the right place at the right time.
But, it was Roger Mugford, a highly gifted buisnesman that noticed a fashion in USA whereby every dog owner needed a 'therapist or dog psychiatrist, so he succesfull intorduced it here calling himslef canine behaviourist, hundreds of others saw the commercial potential and thats where wea re today, behaviourist is a job title not descriptive of anything specific and 'behavioural treatement' etc etc are commercial products.

>That's what it was with Barbara Woodhouse, she had a TV charisma, quite ecentric, and despite hanging all the dogs she ever came across she was a nationaly  highly acclaimed and respected dog trainer of the period, why? because she was a TV character. She was a dog behaviourist because she dealt with dog behaviour.<

LOLOLOLOL Barbara was training & handling dogs & other animals many many years before she was ever seen on TV, She did a lot of film work with dogs

Her "TV"fame came quite late in her life & she held training classes again years before her TV program & she did not "hang"every dog she came across(Although I have never approved of the use of chokers nor some of her training methods)

Please get your facts correct

Barbara was around from the same time as John Holmes who also did lots of film work etc long before there were any dog training programs on TV, neither ever called themselves "behaviourists" simply dog trainers

What I meant by saying Barbara Woodhouse was a behaviourist is that that is what she would be called in modern times, I probably did not explain very well, but anyone who deals with animal behaviour is a behaviourist, they deal (be it training or anything else) with animal behaviour, beyond that it means nothing specific OR all and everything, in those days making any kind of a living doing dog training was simply not a viable proposition, no matter how good or bad one might have been, it developed commercially over app 30 year period but seems to have peaked and is slowing down.
The same thing applies to human psychotherapists, it has no specific meaning no matter if they call themselves, Gestalt, Psychoanalytic, Jungian, Behaviourist or whatever. It would be totally impossible to sue one if something went wrong because in law they are not psychotherapists UNLESS they are first qualified psychiatrists who have then gone through a diploma in some form of psychotherapy, usually approved by the Tavistock trust NHS clinic/academy, a psychiatrist has degree in medicine first.

You really know nothing about Barbara Woodhouse do you, She was a highly successful author & business woman before I would think you were born & had no need to"make a living "training dogs at all

john Holmes on the other hand did make a living, along with his wife, training animals & from books & articles

They were not behaviourists they were dog/animal trainers 1st & foremost. who simply trained animals(& their owners in some cases)

Tell the Weatherwax family that dog training is a modern thing lolololol they have been making a living training dogs for over 80(eighty) years & that's from before even I was born

No, no you misunderstand what I am saying, all I know about Barbara Woodhouse is some memories from her TV training programs. As far as her biography goes I know nothing, the TV image is Barbara Woodhouse public legacy, other things were not media popular that I know of, I only know her TV performances and they were charismatic performances and some 'popular personality' type interveiws she did.I never heard of John Holmes till you mentioned him, saw some books when I typed his name in Google, I know nothing more than that.
Now as far as them being behaviourists.
What I am saying is that in RECENT years the same people would have been called dog behaviourists, I know and remember Woodhouse as a trainer 30 years ago but they almost call themselves behaviourists these days, dog behaviourist is a commercial term, it sounds different to trainer and an anthropomorphic term, it has been quite lucrative this past few years.
I did not mean NO ONE made a living from dog training, I meant there were very few people indeed who did. Look at it like this, if 100 people finished some kind of course in 'behaviourism' or dog training tomorrow, they could, at the moment, go into business and earn quite quickly. BUT if the same 100 left the same course in the late 70's, Barbara Woodhouse time on TV, they would never have made a living from it UNLESS they had land, residential training was around then and now but training classes were just a few old pence per session, no more, the market has been built up over a 30 year period although this last year or two, certainly in London this past couple of years very people bother with training classes, its on the decline.

>certainly in London this past couple of years very people bother with training classes, its on the decline. <

Which is why most dog training clubs in & around London have waiting lists is it ?(BTW run by trainers not by behaviourists)just like most dog clubs around the country, I know ours could be filled 3 times over & ours still costs pennies(well 100 as in £1-00)a night

You've never heard of John Holmes ? a quite amazing man trained all sorts of animals not just dogs

Bet you haven't heard of the Weatherwax family either but I bet you will have seen their dogs though & there have always been a goodly few people making livings out of dog training, shepherds, gundog trainers, personal protection trainers to mention but three types

Some might have waiting lists but that's not a reflection at all of the number of dogs whose owners just don't go. The most common feedback from dog owners  (including one today) is that they take they take their dogs to puppy socialisation and those who run it start to talk of programs going on for around 2 years, in other words they start to sell an idea to the owners.
Only a tiny minority, and off hand I can think of only one, I have spoken to this year have gone beyond puppy classes, most go to puppy socialisation and know full well they are being groomed for a couple of years weekly training, they are to shrewd, know what's happening and simply don't bother after socialisation.
Only ONE person in this immediate area went to training classes for quite some time, her dogs drag her up the street and none can come off lead, she claims it was £5 per session and around 20-25 dogs per class, I think there were 2 or 3 different classes on the evenings they were running, BUT, that number of dogs in proportion of the dogs within a 5 miles radius is simply so marginal they cant even be proportionally measured. The reason is that those who do go give very poor feedback and its almost invariably the same story -
"My dogs is trained, its only when he wants to go to another dog or chasing something, or sees food on the ground I cannot get him back". That is NOT a trained dog.
Trainers and behaviourists are not different, some might prefer to use the term behaviourist, others trainer many use both titles depending on what they are asked to do, there is no difference, the only people who call a behaviourist in are those who simply don't know much about dogs and how to live with them and if you read through these boards, as I am sure you do, you will see that the success rate of those calling themselves behaviourists is abysmal, maybe one success to every 20.
The actual restrictions being placed on people by local authorities these days is phenominal, most parks have onlead only restrictions on some areas and others are now stopping dogs entering at all-Regents Park, Marylebone side had dogs permmited offlead for centuries but now you cannot let a dog off lead in the baker st side, in fact I am not sure they can go in that area at all, why, dogs going after ducks and swans.
I have never seen Britains dogs so en-mass out of control and as I pointed out, the restrictions people are now experiencing in parks and public places are VERY recent, commercial training classes on the current scale are from around early to mid 90's and park restricions en-mass started just after then, you could certainly take a dog offlead anywhere in Regents Park then, except the flower bed area on the Marylebone side. If a dog cannot be called out of a chase then its poor training, training should cater for emergancies.
No never heard of John Holmes till you mentioned him, theway you talk of him it seems he is dead, the Fairfax family, no never heard of them, are they APDT, APBC or UKCCB?
Yes I know that specialist trainers, guard dogs, gundogs, sheepdogs, have been around for centuries but pet dog owners dont go to them for obedience. Note figures of stray/lost dogs being PTS by councils 150,000 dogs, now how many of those would not get lost if they had a recall and of course that figure excludes rescues, just councills, some serious obedience problems somewhere.

>No never heard of John Holmes till you mentioned him, theway you talk of him it seems he is dead

Google is your friend. And, of course, bookshops.

>the Fairfax family, no never heard of them,

Because that's not the name mentioned. ;)