A man has been banned from owning a dog for 10 years after he sawed off his pet's leg to avoid vet fees.

I saw that on another site, it's totally appalling. The ban is ridiculous :(

Lindsay
x

Urgh....sick, if he was on benefits then surely he qualified for help from the pdsa ?  Poor thing :(

What a very sad case for both the owner and the dog,i am not condoning what he did but he did it to try and save his dogs life.The pdsa will only help if you are on benefits and live within a postcode that is near to one of the vet clinics.

He was on benefits, and I believe in the Merthyr Tydfil area (Mid Glamorgan)  There are two practices that cover Mid Glamorgan Porthcawl & Bridgend PetAid practice and Aberdare & District PetAid practice and quite a few others in and around Glamorgan (http://www.pdsa.org.uk/pages/page01_4_action.cfm?mapid=10)  surely one of these covered him ?

I am not condoning what he did either, but I have known quite a few people who do not realise that they can get free veterinary treatment, if their circumstances warrant it,  via the PDSA. Vets fees strike fear into many people, especially the elderly and those on low income, yet quite a few elderly people do not know that the PDSA can, and will help.

Only a 10-year ban? Surely that warrants a life ban? The PDSA would have treated the poor dog for him.

I am not advocating what the dog owner did but i have a dog that has fits and i am on the pdsa scheme. The vets that is part of the pdsa scheme have a budget to spend per month and my dogs fits have never been investigated. I believe if i was paying for the treatment the vets would have done blood tests etc at the least so it is not the best scheme! 

NOt condoning what he did either but if you read to the bottom of the article you'll see that the man probably has some mental health issues.

Im in two minds about this one.

No, without a shadow of a doubt, he should NOT have done that.

But. He has mental health problems, which may well affect his abiliity to ask for help, etc.

The dog didnt feel any pain (well thats what i take part of the article referring to the leg being numb, which would be borne out by the fact that the dog didnt move -- had it felt it, i think he would be bitten and would have made a right mess).

He knew to keep the area he did it in clean and he knew to cauterise the wound.

Considering that his actions were NOT intended to cause suffering but in fact to stop it, and technically speaking his actions DID just that.

That said, no, people cannot go around hacking off their dogs legs, and i think it is right he has recieved punishment for this.

Im mostly horrified taht no vet would offer to let him pay in installments for the surgery!

Em

Boxer mum,

Unless you actually live in the same area as Aberfan (which is where the plaintiff lives) you would have no idea how difficult it would be to get to Aberdare, and you can forget about Bridgend and Porthcawl they are much too far away even if you have a car.  Abervan is NOT in the same postal district as Aberdare, its not even in the same valley so the PDSA wouldn't have been interested :(  and he would have needed his own transport to get there, travelling between the different Valleys is very difficult unless you have your own transport, there are very few buses and those that run often don't go where you need them to or at the right times ;)  I must admit I feel quite sorry for this person, some vets can be very difficult to deal with once they know you are on benefits as they know payment will be a problem.  As someone pointed out there are also mental health issues, yet this person tried to make things better, not in the right way, but the best they could at the time.

Not all PDSA work is free - I posted last year on a referral a friend had from PDSA to Royal Veterinary College - they had to find over £600 for tests - not easy on benefits :(

Margot

I would imagine surgery for gangrene is rather different than tests. Besides, let's not forget that the original injury happened 10 months before the man did the amputation. The dog had been untreated for nearly a year ...

Hi Dill - that's why I said "..surely one of these covered him ? " <---- notice the question mark ;)  And I do understand what you mean about people having no idea where things are unless you live there as someone once recommended to another poster on another post about getting a totally wrong bus to an open show on the Isle of Wight which would have taken them 12 miles away from the showground !  Perhaps in future if we see a post with actual 'referrals' to a specific area which we do not live in we should not ask questions etc and just keep shushed :)

And yes, as JeanGenie says, the accident happened 10 months prior to the amputation - why didn't one of the neighbours try and offer help or get help for him by calling the RSPCA - or did they and no-one took any notice ?  Sorry, but mental health issues is an excuse we hear quite a lot these days - I didn't mean to kill that child your honor, I have mental health issues.  I didn't mean to break into that old lady's house and cause grevious bodily harm that has resulted in her being in hospital with a slim chance of survival your honor, I have mental health issues.  Yes I know my dog was badly hurt 10 months ago your honor, but I have mental health issues that, although prevented me from seeking help gave me enough intelligence to amputate and know what I was doing at the time of amputation !  No, he deserved the ban IMHO, and that is just my honest opinion :(

"Sorry, but mental health issues is an excuse ............"
This man has been sectioned under the Mental Health Act - hardly an excuse :(
Personally I think he should be banned for life, though.

>This man has been sectioned under the Mental Health Act - hardly an excuse

I'm not sure how that makes the pain the dog suffered for so long excuseable or acceptable.

Actually I don't think that mental health issues excuse anything, far too much of this goes on, unfortunately it seems that this person was not helped by veterinary contact :(  In our town we have a surgery who are very unhelpful, very very expensive and if you haven't got the money - tough, the animal will have to suffer :(  I find this attitude from a vet shocking.  We travel 10 miles to a vet with a completely different attitude, and yes if money is a problem then payment arrangements can be made :) we're lucky we have a car because we'd never get to the vets if we had to use a bus or taxi ;)

Boxer mum, wasn't trying to get at you - simply pointing out the difficulties of living in the south wales valleys ;) I've spent whole days lost on some damn mountain or in some valley, because I forgot my map and took a wrong turning, there's never a sign post with the place you're looking for :rolleyes: and the transport system is a complete joke - and the joke's on us :(

JG
Nothing makes it excusable or acceptable, but to anyone who has some knowledge of genuine mental health problems, it at least makes it more understandable. What is sad is that the dog had to suffer for 10 months until any action was taken.

My mother's cousin had such serious mental health problems she was given a frontal lobotomy, but even she knew that cutting an animal's leg off would be the wrong thing to do.

Hi Dill - "wasn't trying to get at you - simply pointing out the difficulties of living in the south wales valleys " No worries :)

So how did he get the dog if he was sectioned under the mental health act - what person in their right mind let someone like that have a dog ?  Sorry, but something doesn't quite ring true with this whole story but hopefully now that his 'mental health' has come to light the ban will be irrelevant as he will not be allowed to keep an animal again.

We have someone over here who is sectioned with care in the community - this woman is so unstable, seriously, she shouts at drivers in their cars as they wait at the traffic lights, she has conversations in the street with people who aren't there, she pirouettes for coaches full of holiday makers - she's two sultanas short of a fruitcake but I've seen her ask for help (from real people this time and not her invisible ones) and I'm pretty sure she would know that you don't just leave an animal suffering for 10 months and then cut it's blooming leg off !

Apparently he had had the dog for over 10 years :(

So was he sectioned before he got the dog or after?  If after why wasn't anyone helping him, surely someone was keeping an eye on him what with the care in the community scheme, or was his 'issues' not serious enough to need the care, in which case he had enough awareness to know right from wrong !

He was sectioned around the time of the trial. To be sectioned under the Mental Health Act, a number of professionals have to agree that an individual poses a significant threat to themself or others. He is reported to have had the dog for 10 years or so and could have developed mental illness at any point and wouldn't necessarily  have been diagnosed until this incident came to light. Mental illness takes many forms and as the nature of the illness was not reported on and we cannot know to what extent his judgement was impaired. Again, not defending his actions, merely suggesting that we should be careful of passing judgement on anyone about anything without being in possession of all the facts.

He can't have had the dog for over 10 years, it was only 3.  Sometimes mental health does distort the rights and wrongs of a situation - the owner may have felt it was his only option as he didn't have the money the vets said they required, he may have misunderstood the vet if he was paranoid, there are too many factors we don't know about IMHO....

Sorry, someone a few posts above had said he had it 10 years...should have rechecked the article but it was very late (puppy decided that it was playtime at 2.45am ).

"he deserved the ban IMHO"

I can not see anyone on this thread who does not agree with that fact. The point of the thread was to debate what has happened and investigate the wider issues. This thread has turned into a very interesting debate on the wider issues and if it has made people think, then it is serving its purpose :)

There is a few things in this report that really angers and confuses me :

"Neighbours later said how they saw Bumper dragging her injured leg as Prosser took it for walks. " - so why didn't they telephone the RSPCA when they first noticed this - before he amputated ?

"He sought help from the vet but was told it would cost between £400 and £500 for an operation," he said. "He was also told it would cost £175 to have the dog put down. He is on benefits and could not find that sort of money " - so he was stable enough to ask the VET how much it would cost but not stable enough to then contact the RSPCA for help

"RSPCA Inspector Simon Evans said after the case: "Prosser could have gone to the People's Dispensary for Sick Animals who will provide free treatment. " - so according to the RSPCA there is a PDSA that would have covered the dog ?

and lastly "Earlier on Friday, Prosser was made the subject of a hospital order under Section 37 of the Mental Health Act at a separate hearing at Merthyr Tydfil Crown Court. " - but he has ONLY been given a 10 year ban ! In line with his mental health it should have been a life ban.

Perhaps we should be blaming society here - quick enough to report someone doing wrong but close our doors to those needing help, I think this shows a real classic example :(

<<<<<<<<<but he has ONLY been given a 10 year ban ! In line with his mental health it should have been a life ban.>>>>>>>>>
I am not in anyway excusing what he has done, but knowing how hard it is to get someone sectioned, he must have serious mental health problems. And hopefully this guy is one of those where they will be able to medicate him/treat him successfully and his mental state will improve to 'normality' (I hate that word but in 6 years I have as yet not found another word to use) Sounds as if he did look after the dog as it will be easy to rehome and had a glossy coat after the operation so must have been fed. So If he is medicated and keeps being so, and the things he did were part of his mental health problems, maybe in 10 years time he might be a better dog owner than alot of people the RSPCA wouldnt even consider taking a dog away from.
Just a thought??
And £175 to euthenase a dog :o Surely it doesnt cost that much otherwise alot of people would be 'knocking their dogs on the head' when they get too old or ill themselves????
Lea :)

When we had to have our old dog PTS a while ago (2 years) it cost us £85 inc VAT and that was for them to 'dispose' of the body aswell (we live in private rented accomodation so couldn't bring her home as much as I would have liked to).

Re mental health problems, someone can seem a complete 'fruit loop' talking and arguing with non existent persons etc etc and still have a degree of insight (understanding that to do something is wrong and the possible consequences, both immediate and wider)  another person could have very little obvious evidence of mental health problems, be able to do as this man has done re the cleanliness and performing the operation and yet have little insight into the rights and wrongs of doing it :(  (see programme on C4 'The Sperminator' to be aired on S4C Thursday, this fertility expert actually fathered 75 children and would have fathered more had he not been rumbled, he didn't think there was anything wrong with what he was doing )

Don't know where you all live but in the valleys £175 to put a dog that size to sleep and dispose of the body sounds about right :(  I had to pay £85 for the same basic service 8 years ago and the dog only weighed about 25lbs, there seems to be little competition between practices and consequently visiting the vet can be very costly, just the charge for seeing the dog would have been £20+ in the local vets practice in my town and that's without meds and procedures :rolleyes:

£85 to PTS plus dispose for a Bulldog weighing in at 55lbs - Isle of Wight where veterinary costs are way more than we use to pay back on the mainland in Essex.

Cost for first consultation last week for complications following an operation on my springer x cost me £23 !

We've been brasic, on benefits three children and pets - in particular a cat that consistently got in fights EVERY month costing us £35 - £40 per month for treatment, it hurt us a lot but we managed to pay it as the animals are our responsibility and it isn't their fault - I know he has been sectioned etc, but I'm just glad that the animal has now had the correct treatment (over £4000 !) and is ready to live with another family.  I for one would worry about letting this man have another animal at any point in his life, what if he gets depressed/mentally ill again - it does happen.

I've read the report and my mind will not be changed, in my honest opinion he should not have done this and he should not be allowed a pet and risk doing this all over again - the animal might not be so lucky next time.

I agree with Boxer Mum but is a ban for life suitable - there is nothing to stop him getting another pet.

mmmmm, i wish the courts thought this of the kids of these people.
Truely, how many of you who think he should have a life time ban on keeping animals, think he shouldnt be allowed children or contact with the children he has?????? just a thought to make people think on another vein.
Lea :)

I do think what he done was wrong......and yes a life ban should have been given.....But...it must have been hard or him....to strap his dogs leg, i pose he was hoping if he kept it covered, it would heal on its own.

I also am from the wales valley, and 2 years ago one of my dogs snapped a bone in her leg, i was on jsa(benefit)...i rang PDSA in cardiff and Swansea, but they would not help, as i was out of there postcode range, yes the PDSA say use another vet who will let PDSA help with costs, but it is only a very small amount they will help with, also i found the vets around the valley`s would not let us pay in payments, so for us we had to take out a loan for the op.Maybe  for this man having a loan was not a option, for some reason.

I think PDSA should let people who are on benefits use there pdsa hospitals, not matter of the post code.

if a child hurts itself or gets injured then u can just walk into any hospital anywhere and get what ever need be done FREE.there should be more for pets....maybe then pets would not suffer as much.

It's a very sad story really but he has got mental health problems and the thing is he was trying to help the dog.  His neighbours should have really helped or reported him to the rspca for neglect it is disgusting leaving the animal for ten months without any treatment, but i dont think this fella is worse than some people who own animals and move home leaving the animal in an empty house with no food or water.  Or the person who ties there dog up in the back with nothing at all and is left to starve to death. There was another story similar in the paper to this one where a woman battered a kitten to death because they to couldn't afford vets bills.  The scary thing of all is these people who do these kind of things walk the streets in society without anyone knowing there's anything wrong.

Warm regards Susan

This story is stil getting to me..

Without a doubt this man did the wrong thing. But to my mind he did it for the RIGHT reasons.

Yes, he should have got help sooner, but when you consider that the main charity in this country, the RSPCA are more interested in removing money from little old ladies than they seem to be in PREVENTING cruelty to animals, its hardly surprising this sort of thing happens.

When i have a dig at the RSPCA it is for this reason, they are there to PREVENT cruelty, but what they ACTUALLY do is pick up the pieces afterwards. That is not prevention.

If they spent more of the millions they are sitting on, building huge offices out of, paying disgustingly high wages out of and squandering on the stock market, into training their inspectors better, educating people better and actually offering more useful, accessible HELP, our countries animals would be one hell of a lot better off.

As someone who HAS suffered mental health issues, and also someone who HAS been on benefits, i can easily understand how one can struggle to find the help one needs (PDSA not more than 8 miles away from me, 'nope sorry you arent in your area, bye' ), RSPCA hospital too far away to take a sick dog too (we are talking three or more busrides for several hours through city centre here).

Vets wont let you pay in installments these days, or very rarely, especially if they dont know you.

Members of the public are more likely to judge from afar and report you behind your back than offer help.

I hope every single person who saw that guy with his dog and did NOTHING, and the vet who refused treatment get what THEY deserve, as quite frankly, they are almost as guilty if not more (cos face it, he DID try his best), than the owner!

Em

Yes, nowhere on the write up does it mention that the vet was censured for not offering assistance to this man (and lets face it, if I were working in a vets and had contact with someone whose dog urgently needed amputation I would have told them to come in and we'd worry about charges later, there's always some arrangement that can be made, re payments) and as for the PDSA helping, well its surprising how hard it is to actually get their help, I've looked on the site given earlier and can't find one mentioned in the man's area :rolleyes: there is actually one supposedly in my town but the only vets surgery in our town is one which definately wouldn't want to know if you couldn't pay, they even refused to see a small jack russel who had been run over and couldn't get up.  The police took him to our vets 10 miles away and they treated him and kept him until his owner could be found.

"nowhere on the write up does it mention that the vet was censured for not offering assistance to this man"

A very good point. Time and again we are hearing of vets asking to see the colour of your money before they will treat an animal, no matter how ill or in what state of emergency. Are any of these vets being prosecuted for their failures in these matters?

<<Yes, nowhere on the write up does it mention that the vet was censured for not offering assistance to this man.>>

Spot on Dill! I'm in no way defending this man, but the vet could at least have given him advice on the nearest PDSA/RSPCA clinic. I know vets are only human - you get nice ones and nasty ones. But a vet actually examining a dog and knowing it is badly injured enough to need surgery or euthaniasia, then letting it walk out of the clinic without a by your leave, is beyond comprehension.

>but the vet could at least have given him advice on the nearest PDSA/RSPCA clinic.

It must be me, but I can't see where it says that the vet didn'tadvise him to do that.

Here!!! Here!! Boxer Mom,
I agree! To many excuses made for people like this.
He should Never be allowed any animals again!!
Old people on pensions look after there's.
No Excuse for what he did, How does anyone really know
how the dog suffered.
Regards
Denese

Hi,
It should be made known that if people in Britian are on any benifit the PDSA.
Will help free of charge. The Vets, should tell people that if they can't afford the vets
fee and claim a benifit to get in touch with the PDSA. For the animals sake.
In my opinion, he needs to be locked up. Pull his bad teeth out without anaesthetic
it won't hurt! if it's bad, that was his logic egh!! Why!! do people turn a blind eye
to cruelty to animals and children?
Vets also have a duty to ask a few more questions, and see the animals at a lower
rate, or, a standard rate, everywhere in the country.
To check the animal first. Then, put there charges forward. Or send them to the PDSA.
The VETs concern should be the animals every time.
Regards
Denese

Denese, maybe you should have read all the thread before you posted? :rolleyes:

Hi,
I beleve that everyone has choses in life to what they do, The dog must have suffered dreadfully.
Who can prove the nerve endes were dead? I have seen, and heard of people doing dreadfull things
to children, with excuses, When they get to court and then say, they were not in a fit state of mind,
They were doing the best for them. I am sorry but! some can pull the wool over peoples eyes.
If he has a mental health issue, it will have been recorded somewhere before this event. If he
had been on a Desert Island, it may have been diffrent. He must have friends or family.
To have spoke to. For everyone that is truthfully there are more that play the system.
Regards
Denese 

Hi,
I also think the Vet had a responsibility, Again, many vet's are putting profit margins before
the animals. Shown yet again, in this article.
Regards
Denese

I know what your saying Denese but at the end of the day he could of killed the dog but he didn't he was trying to help it in my eyes, and if other doors where closed what choice did he have, and the dogs not no worse for wear is it it had a nice shiny coat.  If it would have hurt it i'm sure it wouldn't have let him do it.  Not that i'm condoning it but i can see some logic in it.  Plus i'm sure if it had gangreen in it i bet the dog was relieved afterwards.  It a sad sorry story that he felt he had to resort to those measures to help his dog.

Warm regards Susan

Denese, clearly you are in the fortunate position to have never actually needed to find help for an injured animal when you dont have much money.

I have.

Near me, there is teh PDSA, and there is an RSPCA hospital.

I am too far from the RSPCA hospital to take a dog in for major surgery, because the return journey is ridiculously long, involving a long walk and a long time on various types of public transport.

The PDSA will NOT help 'everyone' on benefits, just the lucky few who live in their 'catchment area'.

Apart from that little fact, its BL**DY hard to actually FIND the details for your nearest RSPCA or PDSA place if you dont have the internet, and its not that much easier when you do.

This is of course, because these charities want to catch the attention of people with money to donate, and NOT the attention of people needing help.
Dont believe me, do a search, look at their websites. Its MUCH easier to find out how to donate money than it is to recieve help!

I in the end got help, from The Tailwaggers Club Trust, who sorted out a large chunk of the costs  of surgery. Had it not been for them, Abby might not be here today.

you say that the nerves in the dogs leg may not have been dead, that the dog must have felt pain. I cant believe you really think you could cut off a dogs leg with an implement such as this man used, when the dog can feel it. Dont you think the dog might have MOVED????

Read the flipping thread, no one thinks he should have done this, but there are bigger questions here, like why did he have to in the first place, THATS the bigger picture!

Em

>its BL**DY hard to actually FIND the details for your nearest RSPCA or PDSA place if you dont have the internet

Erm - they're in the phone book ... ;)

My local RSPCA hospital is NOT in the phone book.

My local RSPCA office do not answer their phone, nor do they have an answer machine.

The main RSPCA hotline does not apparently, have the ability to give out the correct number for the Eccles RSPCA hospital.

I only found it because i knew what road it was on, and googled the address, rather than 'rspca hospital'.

Not massively easy!

Em