Hi, I am toying with the idea of having a go a dog showing.  I have a Boxer puppy and a Miniature English Bull Terrier.  The Mini EBT is castrated, does this exclude him from showing?  Also, what lead do you use to show Boxers?  I will be going to ringcraft and can probably find out there, but just interested to know beforehand...

Yes you can, but you must inform the KC beforehand. It has to be said though that the majority of judges would not place a neutered dog, although some will. I've often wondered why they can't do in dogs what they do in cats, have special classes for neutered animals, with their own titles to win.

Can't help with Boxer show leads I'm afraid but I'm sure somebody here will! :)

Am I the ONLY person who finds this unfair and biased against dogs? How many bitches are shown spayed and yet there is no obvious indication that they have been spayed

Hi, thats exactly what I was thinking! 

Maybe unfair, but no standard says (because it's unverifiable!) that a bitch should have "two apparently normal ovaries and a uterus within the body". ;)

Only because they are not visible ..

Which I suppose is why it isn't specified in the standards.

SE*ISM!!!

:D

Hi, thanks for your help.  I agree that perhaps it should be easier to show a castrated male, after all the vast percentage of horses are shown gelded.  If a dog does well then surely it just backs up the breeding and bloodlines of the sire & dam?

>I agree that perhaps it should be easier to show a castrated male, after all the vast percentage of horses are >shown gelded.  If a dog does well then surely it just backs up the breeding and bloodlines of the sire & dam?

Exactly. In fact I have somebody show a neutered male cat that I bred and he has today at a show won his second PC. :D PC=Premier Certificate, the neuter's version of a CC. One more and he'll have the title of a Premier, and with me being the breeder and the cat having my prefix, it certainly does me well, even though he isn't a breeding cat.

Thats excellent.  So is this website, I found it last night.  I m bowled over by the responses, I think perhaps that the dog show scene might be a little more friendly than the horses!

As far as I know the judges go by the breed standard (as found on the KC site) and thebreed standard in each dog is :
"Male animals should have two apparently normal testicles fully descended into the scrotum. "

I suspect that due to this you may get 'thrown out' - but that's just MO going on the above standard.

Boxer show leads that I have seen (and that I may use for our own boxer) are the fine chain leads - they look lovely and really help to accentuate their neck.  I would advise that the boxer is a non-puller though before using this type of lead as you really don't want them pulling and hurting their neck !

HTH, Tara

There's a cavalier doing quite well that had to have one removed on medical grounds (& he was entire beforehand so no comments re retained testicles) he is winning on his merits too

It all depends on the dog's overall quaility in my eyes as long as the dog was entire before castration

Hi, thank you for your reply.  I will probably get someone to take a look at him and tell me whether they think he is of the right quality (I think he is, but then I would).  If he is OK, then I will give it a try, he is such a show off I think he would love the show ring.  I fancy doing something different as I currently show horses, I thought it would be less humiliating showing dogs and it looks good fun!

Thanks for your reply, I have decided to give it a go anyway and just enjoy it.  He is a really special dog and we should have a laugh or two in the process!

Thanks for your help, he is my first boxer and gorgeous.

No problem - wasn't keen on boxers once but I wouldn't be without one now, real lovely dogs and brilliant with the children :)

Just out curiosity, after reading the post about how spayed bitches don't look any different - I've often wondered, if they can sterilise a male human with (presumably!) leaving his bits intact, why can't they do it with a dog? Sorry if that's a stupid question! :-)

They can temporarily with the injection (forget it's name now) but it only lasts for a month I believe - also, I have read about dogs having fake ones put back in ! (but I believe that was in extreme cases in USA)

They can. It is perfectly possible to do a vasectomy on a dog, but castration is often done for behavioural reasons, not just to sterilise.  Obviously vasectomy leaves the testes insitu and they will continue to produce testosterone, which is blamed for difficulties with some behaviour.

It's also possible to have a pair of little implants put in. :)

Dawn R.

Lets just hope there not metal ones - can you imagine the sound as they go round the ring :)

lolololol BM you haven't heard the story about the Bull Terrier pup in the US that had only one descended & so had a falsy implanted & then the second one came down so he had three lololololol :D

LOLOLOL :D  Brought tears to my eyes - and to the pups I suspect LOL :)

:D

I actually discussed implants with my vet a few months back - they had heard of the 'neuticles' (trademark) that are available in the States but there is a Royal College ethic rule which rules out this being done now in britain although app there was a vet in London that had performed this op before the Royal College ruling so I was told. I personally feel in a way its a shame that neutered dogs are unlikely to win top awards in the ring. Ok, I know that a show is supposed to showcase the future breeding stock etc etc, but as a hobby for many including non breeders and in this day and age, I would think that there should be a bit of lee way now - esp when the KC is promoting responsible dog ownership and so many of the charities are encouraging neutering...I personally am in a dilemna with an entire male who has a CC - he is now a veteran, I would still like to show him as slow maturing breed, but he lives with a few entire females and although separating them all during seasons isnt a problem, he has a one track mind all year round - is a big strong dog and will not be used at stud due to being a carrier of a breed specific condition. I could neuter him and find that mentally he is still the same so I have in effect wasted him for the ring for no reason, or he could be more settled ..So I have decided at the moment, if in doubt do nothing..

It's not the KC(their rules already allow for it) that needs to change it's judges that need to learn to ignore the lack of testicles if the KC have been informed(handler should have proof & IMHO should show the judge it to ensure the judge knows the dog was entire before castration)

I don't have a problem judging castrated dogs as long as it is not to disguise the fact the dog wasn't entire

I will get in touch with the KC and get the paperwork sorted out if I can.  Thats really good advice, thanks again.

Totally agree with everything you have said.  I had him castrated as a three year old as he was uncontrollably rude with my sister in laws dogs who he spends alot of time with.  He would then be very sad for a couple of days when we came home, so I did it for him really...

I will try a few more small shows and ringcraft, if he goes OK and is thought to be up to the standard then I will take the advice of Moonmaiden and register the fact with the KC and show him properly.  Who knows, it might encourage others to do the same, thats how things change.

On the subject of the castration itself, it was very sucessful, he has never even thought about it since (well he might of done, but he didn't do anything about it)!

Looking forward to getting out and about. 

Thank you

Good for you doing the KC bit is easy just download the form off the site & send it in They will simply write back & confirm receipt & then it's ok to enter Open/limit/Champ shows !

Apart from the presence of testicles, castrated males will have an additional disaedvatage over entire dogs in the showring if castrated before full physical maturity.

In most breeds the difference between males and females is very apparent without needing to look for the sex organs.

A male castrated young especially will not develop in the way that the entire males do, and this will also affect his placings.

I don't know about other breeds, but judges rarely penalise castrated males in the Veteran classes, so this may be one of the reasons castrates get knocked.

Of course in some breeds the correct texture and length of coat is altered very noticeably by castration and of course these will also be judged as faulty.

Bearing the disadvatages in mind there is nothing to stop you shoing your male, as you will gain valuable showing expereince, after all at all the shows there are more dogs that loose than wion, yet their owners in many cases are hapy to show win or loose.

It will give you the opportunity to rally study your breed and get yur eye in and in a couple of years you will be in an excellent position to know what you like out of the best dogs and bitches around and yu will know what good litters are being planned and get your name down with a breeder who you have gotten to know by then for a top class show prospect.

Thanks for the reply.  I agree with you regarding showing him will provide me with experience in the show ring.  I had him castrated at 3 yrs old (a couple of months ago).  He did not have any problems as such, he was just uncontrollably rude around my sister in laws dogs - he spends a lot of time with them.  When I brought him home from a weekend with them he would be very subdued, almost like a depression...

Anyway, I took him to a companion show yesterday, he was so good, the judge really liked him and he won his class!

Thanks again for the advice.

Hey well done for your win! :D

sarah xxxx

Thanks very much, I am really chuffed with him!