I have just been reading Peggy Graysons column and she mentions the recent dog thefts she also says she is amazed at why people leave dogs in cars to go shopping,I realise That I am also guilty of doing this as mattie My Lab is in the car before me and sulks dreadfully if left behind,although I dont take her if its too hot,anyway I digress. I am amazed and disgusted at the amount of people leaving tiny babies and young children locked in a car whilst they go in shopping,one baby was in a car and it was roasting. :( :(

What amazes me is the number of people who tie their dogs up while the 'just pop into' the shop - how long does it take to untie a lead?.....

Guilty on that one, but I walk everywhere (non driver), and the dogs would miss out on the extra walks when I run errands! If people see me without them they ask if anything has happened to them!! I often find people waiting for me at a discreet distance to ask about them when I come out, no-one seems brave enough to try and pinch 4 of them.

When I only had the one I would only go in where I did not loose sight of them, like the paper shop! I think it is handy that being an unusual breed would be thieves are very unsure of what the reaction of the dog would be if they tried to take them.

Its not just theft that is a worry with unsupervised dogs tied up......what happens if (as happened to a friend of mine's lab) you come out of the shop to find a hysterical mother, saying the "savage dog" attacked her child???? You weren't there to witness it, next thing you know your dog is carted off, destination unknown. It happens, and as I say, it happened to a friend of mine & was a terrifying few days, until a witness came forward. I also know someone who tied a big breed to a bollard outside local postoffice. Dog was sat & well behaved but along came a loose wandering dog, picked a fight & her dog couldn't get away & virtually strangled itself in the scuffle. I would never ever ever leave one of my dogs or hounds unattended, incl. at a show. On the rare occassion I have to leave them in the Landy, then it is always in sight.

Sam,
I completely understand where you are coming from on trouble & owner absence. I'm always concerned that some ijiot will put their fingers in my car & my girls will get blamed for human stupidity.

I've watched my car when the girls are there & I'm not in it. The things people will do amaze me. Some of the things I've observed:

Girls are lying quiet. People come up to their car next to mine. The guy (always a man) wants them to react, so he bangs on my car window. Of course they bark, then they settle down. I've usually stepped in before something else happens, because I've saw a man once grab my car & shake it up, then laugh at the dogs reaction. He couldn't understand why I was upset because he was messing with my car.

Girls are lying quiet. Parents & kids walk along car. All comment on dogs, then move up about 4 cars. While parents are putting stuff in car, kids run back along busy roadway to throw sticks & rocks at my car windows. Parents laugh at kids. Kids laugh at dogs' reactions. I yell at them to stop throwing stuff at my car. Parents get mad because I yell at their precious kids. Police step in & mediate.

Girls are lying quiet. Woman throws chocolate bar into my back seat. Doesn't know that chocolate is toxic to dogs. Can't understand why I don't want strangers feeding my dogs. I now have screens for the window, but I don't like leaving my dogs for long time in parking lots. Usually, I'm in & out, then we're off for a walk.

What amazes me is that so much trouble & time would be saved if people just kept their hands off of things that just don't belong to them. I know it's simplistic, but I can dream, can't I?
toodles

The Flower's very much the same, hates to be left at home! On hot days she has to be left but I take her whenever I can. A lot depends on how the dog reacts to being in a car. She lays quietly and goes to sleep but dogs who are always on the go in a car can suffer at quite low tempratures.

Regards, John

Mattie,
I"m absolutely amazed....it is not illegal in the UK to leave young children & babies alone in cars????????? Is this true?

I can't count how many babies have died in the US because they were locked in vehicles. I think it's illegal in all states to leave a child unattended. Despite this publicized fact, each summer around 10-20 babies die in overheated cars.

In NM, a babysitter took her baby into the store with her, but left the other baby in the car for an hour. It was over 90 degrees that day (30+cent). The baby died, even after bystanders who noticed it in the car broke the window to free it. She excused herself by saying that she had left the windows "cracked" to vent the hot air.

Yes, I occasionally leave my dogs in the car. They have fresh water available & I keep the car in the shade. The windows are open & the sun roof allows the air to escape. They go to sleep up on the "deck" and look like stuffed toys in the window. My car doesn't allow the doors to unlock without the key. Regardless, we don't appear to have the rampant problems of doggy theft here.

But there is no way I would ever leave a child or baby alone in a car!!!! Too much can go wrong!!! Especially if a dognapper decides to move into opportunistic childnapping.
toodles

Couldn't agree more about not leaving pets and children in hot cars. Problem about not being able to leave dogs safely outside local shops.
When we had our last dog - Heinz variety - never occured to me someone would want to steal her while I nipped into shop to buy paper even though she was as soft as butter. Shame things have changed so much or is it only a problem with purebred breeds ? If you like to take your dog with you when you go out what options do you have? (Nowhere will let you take dogs in and I understand this is because of hygeine aspects in food shops etc. but its a pity dogs who have passed Good Citizenship awards or similar are barred from other places - sorry, personal gripe) Perhaps someone could invent A "dog lock" which would warn you if someone was trying to take your dog !

It's terrible that you can't leave your dogs in the car and feel safe. We often padlock our kennel in the hope that thieves would be put off by the extra work of having to break in.

I've considered putting a notice up in the window saying that my dogs are neutered and are of no value to anyone else (even though one of them isn't) but then I wonder if a notice would attract extra and unwanted attention. My two usually bark if a stranger approaches so hopefully that would put them off but the trouble is they are so friendly towards people that if someone were to ignore the barking and offer them food they would instantly make friends.

I always suspect that the people who say they never leave dogs in the car either don't take the dogs out much or else always travel with someone else so can always leave someone with the dogs. I live on my own and my dogs go on holiday with me, go out for days with me and basically go almost everywhere with me so it is inevitable that occasionally they have to be left in the car whilst I go shopping, have something to eat or go to the loo. Tomorrow I am travelling to Manchester to visit a friend in hospital. I have a choice of leaving the dogs at home on their own for longer than I would like to or else making a day out of it and taking the dogs with me which is what I will do. I do have a device for leaving the tail gate partially open, but locked so it can't be further opened, grills for the windows, a secure vehicle and separate padlocks for each door of my purpose built cage which has 4 compartments.

Joan
Take the rough with the smooth

well you needn't suspect that about me Joan!!!!!!!
Mine go in the car if I go to work, they live in the Landrover when I go on holiday(they come with me), they visit my ma weekly, they visit my other friends when we go there for the day.......the point is, I NEVER LEAVE THEM IN A PUBLIC PLACE UNATTENDED and that includes the shopping trips. Why on earth would I want to drive to town & leave my dogs in a car park whilst I shop, then drive them home again when they could be having a good romp in their run, or sleeping in the lodges? So please don't suspect me of never taking my dogs out, just because I choose not to leave them unattended in the car.

I stay on camp sites - what do you suggest I do with my dogs when I need to go shopping etc. They are surely safer in the car than leaving them at the camp site on their own, besides the fact that the camp site would not allow it. Even when staying in hotels the hotels normally have rules that dogs must not be left unattended in bedrooms.

If you, and Leigh, are in a position NEVER to leave your dogs unattended then you are a lot luckier than most of us. Unless I never left my home other than for periods of a couple of hours it would be impossible other than kennelling the dogs and not taking them with me.

Joan
Take the rough with the smooth

I guess do like I do, and park outside shops where you can keep an eye on the car whilst shopping! I do not take (& wouldn't expect to!!) my dogs into hotels, but when I have been B&B ing, I always ensure its somewhere where the dogs can sleep in the landrover, directly outside my window. (Its always on a farm, never in a residential area either.) If I can't get B&B booked somewhere suitable, then I don't go!

So in fact Sam you take the same precautions that I do, and actually when I stay at a hotel or bed and breakfast I always stay at one where the dogs share my room and don't stay out in the car all night.

Joan
Take the rough with the smooth

Picking up on the thread of taking dogs away with you can anyone tell me some places where I can go with my 3? Don't want to leave them in the car or send them to kennels so if I can't find somewhere just won't go this year.Thanks

Batty recomend you start new thread(good places to holiday with dogs)
OR some thing similiar could be very active & informative
especially with 3 as most places only accept 1 or 2

karl

Get a caravan,you can take your dogs anywhere then,most champ shows have caravan facilities so you can go to shows,or you can tour anywhere,your dog will love it and so will you....oh the out doors...bliss :)

I did not say I NEVER leave my dogs unattended ....
I said I do not leave them unattended in the car :-)

No, I realise that Leigh. I also know that unlike me you don't live on your own so you probably don't go on holiday on your own therefore don't have the same problems of supervision of the dogs as I do.
Joan
Take the rough with the smooth

I wasn't 'judging' you Joan, I reacted solely to your comment... "I always suspect that the people who say they never leave dogs in the car don't take the dogs out much", and not the rest of your post :-)

Yes, but that is only picking up on one phrase and ignoring the end of my sentence "or else always travel with someone else so can always leave someone with the dogs" which surely is what applies to you. I wasn't talking about short journeys when I appreciate that dogs can be left at home etc but to holidays or days when you are going to be out all day.

Joan
Take the rough with the smooth

Well you suspect wrong Joan!!

My dogs do go out in the car on a very regular basis, but they are never left unattended when I get to my destination. If I can't take them where I am going, they don't come.
I wouldn't dream of taking them shopping with me. They also get a lot of exercise and training. If they didn't, they would create merry hell.

Edited

I don't take the dogs shopping or when I am visiting friends, but they do travel in the car for days out etc, just not if they aren't going to get some exercise, and yes occasionally I do leave them unattended, in the summer I leave the rear tailgate open, have a tailguard fitted & padlocked, and the front windows partially open and flick the dog guard up so they have the run of the car. All I can say is it would take a very brave person to try and get in the car, anyone can walk past but if they stop or approach all hell breaks loose and they very rarely hang around for long. Ingrid

My dogs don't come in car when I go shopping they don't come when I take/pick up Danielle from nursery school.
I do take my dogs out for a good walk and run each day.
They come in car when im going somewhere that I can take them ie park friends house etc.

Karen

Hi Fleetgold Would just like to say If I dare left Zac in my car the car would have no seats or steering wheel left when I came back .And in London your mad to leave a paper bag in a car.

Pat

Wow!! I wouldn't fancy meeting a Cockney paper bag on a dark night ;-) <G>

ha ha lol. well sorry it is true the little toads will have the wheels off your car
while you are locking it up .And the amount of scooter's that get knocked off with kids of about 12 driving them round with plod in tow.Even the cats have to wear tin hats at night [lol ]

Pat

Iv just been reading this thread with interest and would like to point out to anybody living in the rotherham area to look out for their dogs as there is a lot going missing at the moment.The main breeds being gsd and staffiies. There was one woman who had a litter or english mastiffs pinched(6 week old puppies)

I take Molly everywhere with me she is my best friend. At weekends such as today we will take Molly out for her country walk then stop off at the food shop to get our stuff for the weekend. All four windows will be cracked open sun roof up. In the summer she stays at home as I will never leave her in the car in hot or even luke warm weather. We too go on holiday in our motorhome such as Joan and Molly comes with us we are not allowed to leave our dogs unattended at any time so of course she has to come with us, if the van is to hot my husband will take Molly our of the van with her water bowl sit in the shade while I do the shopping. (the norm man I surpose!!) If anyone did try and take molly let that be a lesson the them as she will take your hand off! If anyone did put the hand inside the car window then yes Molly will bite them that is the risk I will take? After all they put their hand in the car?

Julieann

I've just read on another board that the DDA can also class your car as a public place, so a dog acting aggressively in the confines of your car in a place that the public have access to can be held under the DDA....... :-(

Unless DDA wants the gov. to pay the taxes (license fees) on the "public place" of my car & buy it for the public, that vehicle is my private property.
Now, if they want to classify the dog in the car as an "attractive nuisance" which 'invites' attention from the public, that's another issue. :rolleyes:

Unfortunately that wasn't the way the law worked when someone was charged with having a Pitbull unmuzzled in a public place (in a private car). The case went to the high court and the court of appeal and on each occasion the car was ruled to be a public case and the dog was eventually destroyed.

Joan
Take the rough with the smooth

I saw that incident in an article in US Dog Fancy mag. several years ago. The readers were shocked about the case because "the right to protect private property" is one of the tenets of basic rights within US society. Automobiles have been held as an extension & subject to the same legal rights as a house.

Of course, there are problems that result in any of these laws. I"m not supporting or defending either. I also read in another posting if a kid climbs over a fence & breaks into a house, the dog & owner are in trouble for reacting to the intruder.

It just makes it clearly apparent though that despite sharing language & much history together, the US & the UK are very different countries with their own sets of legal customs.
toodles

You can argue about it as much as you like, but similar rules apply to firearms - a firearm in a car has to be in a secure case because a car on the public highway (or uspermarket car park) is considered a public place - I hope you don't have to find out in court.......

Not arguing any point. Not certain if your tone was meant to be cruelly sarcastic. But, I don't have to find out anything in court because I don't carry firearms or have a "dangerous dog" :rolleyes:
I am also not residing in the UK. I do comply on a daily basis to US, US military, SOFA, German, & EU laws. Now trying to abide by all five jurisdictions can get very confusing. But I gladly juggle them all.... rather successfully, I think :D
toodles

Any dog can be deemed a 'dangerous dog' it isnt restricted to the 4 breeds listed.

Not certain of your point, Bec. Again, I'm not in the UK, so I don't have to worry about that law.
Although if I did have to abide by DDA,
if someone classified my 8 year old 15 & 17 lb. dogs as "dangerous dogs" when they're minding their own business on their own property, then dog owners & their beloved pets, as a whole are in serious trouble. Most people laugh when they see my girls. They could become poster dogs for common sense & rationality :D
toodles

This is precisely the problem we have in the UK with the DDA-*ANY* dog that exhibits agression (and that can include simply barking when in parked car if the judge deems it 'agressive') can be deemed a 'dangerous dog' under the Act, and while you can appeal against such a ruling (ie - argue :-)) it shows just what a 'dumb' ruling it is :-(

What I find even more annoying is that if someone breaks into your house or climbs a locked gate and gets bitten they also have the right to sue you, so that in effect makes your house public property too, and if you are attacked while out on a walk and your dog defends you that puts you in the wrong too, whoever makes these laws is definitely a dog hater. Ingrid

Ingrid Hello I will second that ,seems as if you have to bite the burglar yourself :O
no matter they have hit you on the head with a lump or wood or terrified the stuffing out of you:EEK: and yes your guilty of having nice possession's :(.

sorry Eog, but if you were in the uk, that would be no defence.......there was a case a few years ago when a golden retriever barked, in its own garden, at someone walking past (behind a fence). The dog was deemed "dangerous" under the act, as it gave cause for concern to the woman walking past. (it actually frightened her dog, which then pulled her over, breaking her arm)

Sam,
I get the point...I've been battered like the proverbial dead horse by now :D But I'm not British, so I have absolutely no effect on anyone's political opinion in your country.
But if I was of your nationality, I would really make a pain of myself to get this ijiotic law changed in the "wonderful court of public opinion" & however laws are changed in Parliament. I'm the type of person who would be up in arms against this stupid law and not letting anyone forget about it. If PETA can do it for fru-fru issues, I can do anything for the sake of common sense!!! :D :D

I realize that there are stupid laws in the US too. And if they affected me, I would attempt to work the system to change them where I could. Especially when it comes to my rights as a pet owner. I'm an activist kinda gal -- moderate though, not anyone's sort of radical. :D :D :D I don't like to complain, because nothing ever comes of useless whining.
good night all

I may get into trouble for this, but I do leave my one of my dogs in the car. Never in a hot place of course, but she happens to love a car ride, and to watch people going by. Unfortuanty as soon as I get out of the car, Madame moves into the front seat and places her paws on the steering wheel, though she hever does it when I'm driving. Whith the result that I came back from a brief shopping expedition to find a very puzzled trafic warden peering in the window.

The warden either had no sense of humour- or else a very good one - for she demnaded the dog'd driving licence. Fortunately I had removed the key, since I dont't qite trust this dog to drive off:D

Bec Hi What do they class as a dangerous dog? and a dog protecting its family that is what I would like to know.

Matti Hello, Was just told this morning a pensioner left her little yorkie out side
a shop that she goes in everyday, A man and woman came up and took the dog this dog is about 5 years old The pensioner was inconsolable.

Pat

Ive emalied you,if I can help I will.

Hi Good news police found couple with dog now back with the lady owner ,
tHANK god for that .

Thats great news