hello again.  i had a very surprising and also frightening  experience with my ten week old springer pup yesterday outside the school waiting to pick up my daughter. as all the children came out of the gate my little pup was indeed very interested in the going ons, but, and this was the bad part, one boy of about 8 decided he wanted to pet her and came straight over to her bent over her and tried to pet her, pup threw herself on her back and snapped at the little boys hands.  she also tried to bite the vet when he examined her eyes last week, but i didn't take too much notice to it as most dogs are scared of the vet. she got a scolding( not slaps but firm NO's)for it but other than that i didn't think any more on it until this incident in school yesterday. she is never agressive in any way at home with me or my children and she isn't nervous or afraid of any noisy household objects like hover or dishwasher.  on walks she shys away from strangers who simply bend down and aproach her but she has never tried snapping at anyone (except the vet) before. why does she do it, how can i help her overcome her fear of strangers and most of all how do i teach her that snapping is unacceptable no matter how scary a situation might be. i want to break this habbit now before it gets out of hand and becomes a danger when she grows up. please help.

lots of thanks, Marleen

It sounds like your pup was overwhelmed and reacted from fear. A stranger leaning over a puppy is a terrifying thing - a very common reaction would be a cowering, wetting puppy - and to be scolded for reacting will only convince her that children leaning over her are indeed something to fear.

Next time don't allow any strange children to pet her unless she's in your arms, feeling secure. She's still very young to be on the pavement at all - it's vital that you make sure all her experiences are pleasant ones.

Hi, firstly well done for seeing this is a problem already, when your pup is 10 weeks old.  She is still young enough to become properly socialised and for you to fix this, so that's excellent.

It does sound like 1. your pup is not socialised to people enough and 2. she is frightened of them and responds to this by defending herself.

Before I suggest something, can I just say - please do not say 'NO', do not shake her, do not smack her in any way when she behaves like this.  This is because 1.  you are just adding to her fear - now she is not only afraid of the new person but also that fear is exaggerated by you doing something which makes her even more afraid.  And 2.  All you are teaching her is not to display aggression, you are not helping her not to be afraid.  It's dogs like this which give no warning, never growl, but one day just BITE.  This is because they've been punished so many times for growling that they just skip the growl and go to the next level.  Don't reprimand your dog for growling - it's a warning which you should listen to.  (I know your pup hasn't growled from what you say, but just bear that in mind.)  (By the way, don't reassure her either as that will be seen as praise - just ignore it but make a mental note of it and then do remedial socialisation.)

Ok, so imo, you could try this...

Firstly don't overwhelm the pup by taking it to places with LOADS of people (like the school) yet - just leave her in the car at the school for now. 

You can sit down and make a list of people to socialise her with.  This list could go something like:  old women, old men, people with sticks, people in wheelchairs, people wearing hats, people with beards,  people of different racial minorities, people with glasses, kids of various ages, babies, teenagers, adult men, adult women, people skateboarding, people rollerskating, people in uniform (traffic warden, police officer).

(By the way, this is just the 'people' list - you also need a list which goes: black dogs, white dogs, brown dogs, big dogs, little dogs, chihuahuas, fluffy dogs, dogs with strange facial features like boxers etc etc etc).  (Also by the way, not all dogs are afraid of vets and it's a sign of poor socialisation if a dog is.  You should be giving lots of titbits to your dog during the vet examination...)

Think of this like a ticking time bomb - you now have until your pup is 16 wks old to expose her to ALL these things and for these things to be a positive experience for her (not something she's afraid of).  Anything she is not exposed to in this time, she could be afraid of for the rest of her life and she COULD react to that fear by being aggressive.  Unless you want to take this risk, you should really focus on socialisation.

The best way to do this is - pick a quiet street first of all (which has some people on but not many), and just stand there with her, with a load of hotdog sausages or cheese in your pocket.  Watch your pup and feed her some titbits as someone approaches.  If she displays fear at this stage, don't take it any further - don't let anyone stroke her just yet - allow several people to just walk by while you feed her titbits.  When she doesn't seem to mind someone walking by, you need to go to the next stage of someone saying hello... A lot of people will stop and say 'oh what a cute puppy, can I say hello' etc etc.  Ask them if they could give her a treat when they say hello, and give them a titbit to give her.  They should give the titbit and then ask them to let her smell them.  (Don't let people just dive right in and touch the dog somewhere - make sure they let her smell them first.)   If the dog shows fear, give the person a whole handful of titbits (if they have time and are willing) and let them stroke her and feed her a titbit - one stroke, one titbit - each time they touch her, they give her a little titbit until there are none left.  Then it's onto the next person.  And in your mind (or on paper!) you should be remembering what these people are like, so you know 'what' she's been socialised to. 

When you move onto kids - try one kid at a time, and tell them to be slow and gentle and give lots of titbits and let her smell them first - tell them she might be frightened of them.

In general there are some guidelines: 1. Reward her during socialisation 2. Do not punish any fear 3.  If she is afraid, back off in some way and go to an 'easier' level with that person/place/thing etc   4.  Only move onto the next level when she is happy at the previous level of exposure to that person/place/thing.  5.  Try to end on a good note for the day because she will remember that (don't stop when she's afraid of something - make it easier and wait for a 'good' response, then stop.)

Good luck - a lot of people don't realise what hard work it is to socialise a dog right.  I go to a skateboarding park, a farm, a dog groomer's, the vets several times (just to hang out in the surgery), several OAPs, and hang around outside a school (even though I don't have kids), as well as a lot of just walking around.  I also don't wait for vaccinations before I take pups out, because more dogs get put down each year due to behavioural problems coming from poor socialisation than the few that die from being taken out before jabs, and you only have till they're 16 wks to fit everything in....

thanks for your reply.  i think this socialisation plan of yours sounds pretty good.  but one more problem has been added to this.  just now i was outside with her. i was kneeling down with her petting her and gently and i mean gently, no rough playing, playing with her when she walked away a few steps and i called her, she looked at me and jumped snarliong at my hand biting it and drawing quite a lot of blood.  why in the name of god did she do this, as i already said i was kneeling down was nontreathening and friendly and she has a go at me for no reason. i was smiling but without any teeth showing so there is no way anyone can tell me she saw me as a threat.  i don't hit her or shake her. but i did shout no at her when she bit me. i don't believe petting her and reasuring her that everything is alrright after biting the hand that feeds her is appropriate here. this is a serious matter and i need some serious advice on this biting.

Hi Marleen

I found this quite interesting   http://www.jersey.net/~mountaindog/berner1/bitestop.htm

Do you think your puppy is actually being aggressive rather than just biting for the fun of it / to see what happens / teething etc.?

i went to webaddress you gave me and i can't say for sure that it was not playbiting or mouthing.  as i said, she lunged at me, snarling. so yes, i do think it was aggression to some extent. i know that dogs often growl and snarl while they play and sasha play growls when she is playing with her rope toys but we never play tug of war with her. when she wants to play she comes over with her toy and to throw it i say drop and take it out of her mouth. she drops it no problem, fetches it and we repeat the process. never had any problems there. since this bite has happened we did play again and she took my finger in her mouth again but spat it out straight away(probably remambered me shouting NO at her) and licked the wound on it. i'm not sure any more whether or not she was actually being agressive or if play got out of hand. i remember watching two of my german shepherds playing and they used to do this to one another, play, stop for a second then one one would lunge for the other and off they went playing again. maybe i simply played a bit too rough on other occasions and she wanted to roughhouse again. but i most certainly got a very big fright when she did it. i have introduced a new rule in the house anyway, if sasha plays rough, get up walk away from her and ignore her for a few minutes, even if she still wants to play. then try playing something less boisterous and volatile, like fetch. NO MORE ROUGHHOUSING!!!!!
if any one else had a similar problem i'd like to know if this could continue as i don't want sasha doing this to one of my children. even if it was only playing.

Hi Marleen - firstly, if it was playbiting or playfighting - Read that link because it's a really ace one. 

The thing to remember is that you shouldn't stop ALL mouthing because your pup needs to develop bite inhibition.  Bite inhibition is basically the pup learning how hard she can bite without breaking the skin.  She does need to know this because at some point in future she may feel threatened enough to bite, or she may be in pain and so bite - if she has good bite inhibition she won't do any damage or break the skin.  She can only develop bite inhibition if you gradually accept less in the way of playbiting, not if you try to stop it all immediately right now.  If you do try to stop it all immediately, your pup might not bite for a while - but if there is ever a time when she feels very threatened and bites, she will have no bite inhibition, so she will bite hard and cause a lot of damage.

So I'd say that stopping all rough play might not be a good idea.  It's also worth remembering that human skin gets hurt more easily than dog skin, which is thicker and has hair. She has to learn that humans get hurt more easily.

So, for example, you should gradually accept less, like this:
1.  At first, any time she breaks your skin and there is any blood, shout 'OW' very loudly and WALK AWAY.  End the game.  Leave her for about 2 mins on her own.  Then just go back and play again.
2.  When she scratches you do the same.
3.  When her teeth touch you, do the same.

It will take months and months to get to the 3rd stage, but it's important that you do this in order and don't immediately skip to the third stage without doing the others.  So, for now - only when she breaks your skin, shout ow and walk away.

By the way, it's also good for her to play with other pups, because this will help her to develop bite inhibition too. 

yes i think you are right. but for now i only want sasha to mouth and play bite me and my husband and not my children at all.  i feel lucky that it was me sasha had the accidant with and not my son or daughter as i am sure had it happened to them they would now be afraid of sasha. the no roughhousing rule applies to the kids only and i'm scaling it down somewhat for myself but not cutting it out completely. (i enjoy it too much for that but don't want blood drawn at the same time. after all its supposed to be fun for all parties involved.

Hi Marleen,

On top of the very helpful advice you've already been given I felt I ought to highlight this particular point in your opening post

>and this was the bad part, one boy of about 8 decided he wanted to pet her and came straight over to her bent over her and tried to pet her, pup threw herself on her back and snapped at the little boys hands

That is a classic sign of firstly submission (turning belly up) and secondly fear (snapping) ;)   You don't have an aggressive puppy - you have a perfectly normal puppy who behaved in a normal way to a situation which frightened her.  Dogs of any age which react with *harmful intent* DON'T do so while lying on their backs nor do they snap - they ensure they make contact :)

As advised, lots of gentle but habitual socialisation to build her confidence is the best way forward.  Don't overwhelm her but take her to as many places as possible - stand outside a shopping centre, garden centre, DIY store at the weekend, a bench on a pedestrian precinct, near (not so close as to make contact) to the children's play ground when school is in but kids out for a break.  All with her in your arms initially, and just let her watch all the comings and goings of people of all shapes and sizes, get used to the sounds of voices, traffic, excited children, other dogs etc .  If she's fairly relaxed after you've done that ideally at least twice a day over say a week, then progress to putting her down on the ground in the same situations. 

Young pups should be socialised to the max practical by their breeders but all that goes out of the window if the new owners don't keep it up.  The above (with the exception of ever touching terra firma) is just some of what we did with our litter from four/five weeks of age until they left for their new homes BUT we were very direct with their new owners that this needs to be kept up and other new things introduced also.

>on walks she shys away from strangers who simply bend down and aproach her

She's very small - even a child "bending over her" will seem HUGE ;)  Ideally, she should not be on the ground yet unless you are in an area which is likely to be a dog free zone or at an organised puppy socialisation class where all will have had their initial inoculations.  Like 123, I take my pups out immediately after vacs but still exercise caution from infection and also respect the fact that being so young and so small, some things are best first introduced nearer the pup's own level - better to either carry her or you sit on a bench.  That way, she has you nearer to her for reassurance and anyone approaching is not so high up.  HTH, best wishes, Teri :)