Hi Everyone,

I have posted on here several times about my bitch Jinx that was mated in June and have today finally had the service from a vet that she deserved!

She is a fit and healthy (maiden) lab that has had all the relevant health tests done and came into season on 1st June and continued to bleed until the 18th day.  This was slightly longer than normal but we went ahead as planned.  I did not pre-mate as I knew I was going to a proven stud dog and an experienced breeder as she is also the breeder of our bitches. Jinx was with the stud dog from day 9 as they had actually come to us to stay for the weekend first and neither was interested in each other.  Jinx then stayed at the breeders house and again the stud did not look at her until day 18.  She stood but was not happy with the tie and over the next 4 days had three more ties which took her to day 21.  By this stage she did not want to stand anymore and came home.

When Jinx came home she was a little lethargic, clingy but hungry.  We had a scan at a vets practice in the next town (owned by my own practice), as my own practice do not have a small animal scanner, when she would have been 4 weeks and two days from first mating.  Nothing was found and my poor dog was completely stressed out by it all.  The vet wanted her on her side and shaved her tummy and this has been one of my biggest mistakes which I will always regret.  I have no choice in vets practices as the next one is about 100 miles away! As you can imagine she does not like going to the vets anymore.  We were offered a free scan at the 6 week stage to double check.  The vet thought she was having a phantom pregnancy.

In the meantime I found the number of a sheep scanner locally but he was too busy and couldn't see her for two weeks and then didn't return our calls.  I took her to my own practice and they ran a blood test for relaxin. This had to be sent away and came back as a WEAK POSITIVE. The vet didn't know what this meant and had to call the laboratory that ran the test. A result of 20 or less is negative, Jinx had a level of 23 which meant she was carrying one small pup or had been pregnant and resorbed them.  The vet examined her and said that she was 90% sure that Jinx was not pregnant but to keep an eye on her. 

I continued on as before and Jinx began to behave as normal.  We decided that to put our minds at rest we would take her back for the scan at 6 weeks.  This time I would not let them put Jinx on her side and she was scanned standing up.  Again no pups were found and I resigned myself to the fact that she was not pregnant. 

Everything went fine for the next few weeks, nipples were a little larger, vulva still slightly swollen, a small amount of clear discharge, looking for food and I definately thought a change had appeared in her outline and ribs.  I know these are all symptoms of false pregnancies so wasn't overly concerned until last Sunday when I noticed that she was spotting a clear mucus type discharge and had been sick that day.  She was off her food and sick again over the next couple of days and still having discharge that was becoming stringy in appearance.  On Thursday night she was unsettled, with more discharge than normal and would have been 69 days from the first mating or 66 days from the last.  On advice I began taking her temperature but it only dropped to 99F on one occassion and then stayed steady at just under 101F. I have dontinued to take her temp until today.  The next day I took her to the vet and they were totally useless!  They couldn't tell if she had a pup or not and wouldn't even attempt to listen with a stethoscope to try and pick up a heartbeat.  They told me to keep an eye on her over the weekend and not to let her go past Monday and organised another scan for me.

I have had the scan carried out today with a more experienced vet and a more modern ultrasound scanner. He pointed out all her organs and found nothing in her womb.  He was much more concerned and patient and listened to everything I had to say.  I still don't know if Jinx was pregnant and lost them or if she ever was pregnant but I have learned that I will never hold much faith in vets again. 

Have I just been really unlucky or does this happen more than we know?  Have I missed anything that I could prevent next time? I know this post is long but I would hate for anyone else to go through all the hassle and stress that we have.  If this post helps someone else to avoid some of the mistakes and fees that I have over the last few weeks then it has been worth writing.

Andrea

Simply sometimes bitches miss.  Of my own girls the first had two litters, no misses.

Her daughter missed on her first mating, had two litters, missed on an attempted third, but a year later had a third litter.

That ones daughter has had 3 litters no misses.

Her daughter had slip matings and no litter, next time she had a litter.

When tried of a second litter refused the dog point balnk, and next season with him staying with us has had a nice litter.

With bitches we are lucky that they do produce litters more often than not.  A woman would not even be concerned if she had not conmceived for say 6 months, and a doctor woudln't be worrying until a year of trying.

Hi

I don't think  its the missing that's bothering me as much as the attitude of the vets in my area.  I live in a small population and I don't think they really have that much experience of dog breeding and the more experienced vets are usually out on call at the farms leaving the younger vets for the small animals.  I understand they need to get experience but they appeared to have no interest in us at all and that I feel is wrong. 

I am possibly a little more sensitive to these things as I had to battle over a period of 4 years to get an operation for my back that they thought I didn't need, that is until I had the MRI scan!!!  My neice has also just come out of hospital after having an ovary and fallopian tube removed that was strangled by a cyst.  She had to go into hospital for the pain, which the doctor on call put down to constipation even though she told him she had a cyst!

I am going to bury my head for a few days I think and feel sorry for myself and Jinx.. :-) then it will be back to business as usual.

Cheers
Andrea 

I know what you mean there, took me ages to find a vet that admits where his expertise in these matters is lacking (but he is great at palpating bitches).  He saved me a great deal of worry when my Kizi was amted on what I thought was her 17th day, but then found her season went on for more than a week longer than normal.  when he palpated at what I thought was 28 days he told me the fetuses were not that advanced.  Pups were born 4 days later than due date, as I suspect she was not as far into season as I at first thought (hence the prolonged season) and had had a false start because her daughter was in.  The small litter rather confirmed that the sperm had had to wait a good while for the eva.

A freind tried her bitch twice with same dog and she missed, was advised to go elsewhere, but tried him again (he had sired littters in between matng her), on the third try she had 10 pups, a large litter for our breed.

Hi
my bitch missed the first time but had puppies the second time. The vet was 'fairly sure' she was pregnant at 8 weeks as we went on a different matter. During the labour we went 3 hours with no pup so i was advised to take her to the vet where she promptly had  a puppy on the surgery floor! he felt her and thought maybe there could be more pups inside. we went home and she had 6 more! ( 11 in total) Im not sure if some vets are not experienced enough to feel for puppies or if puppies are hard to feel for. i only believed she was truly pregnant when i felt them move.

Hi, sorry you've had such a bad experience, but your story illustrates why I have never taken my bitches to the vet to be scanned or prodded. They don't like going to the vet's and they certainly don't like being "fiddled around with" Well, I did once take one bitch after she went chasing rabbits 4 days after I thought the pups were due. The vet (in whom I have a great deal of confidence) said "Well she's not going to have them tonight, if she hasn't had them in 36hrs, bring her back & we'll have to do a caesarean". We arrived home (about 10 mins drive), I was just telling OH what the vet had said & the first puppy arrived! Three others arrived within 90 minutes & all were fine.
I had another bitch who was successfully mated 3 times before she eventually had a lovely litter of 5, so don't give up. There seemed no reason as to why she missed, we obviously just didn't hit exactly the right time, only thing we did differently the 3rd time was leave the bitch with the stud dog owner (who we knew & trusted completely) for over a week.

Hi,

Thanks for all the replies, it helps create a clearer picture of what to expect when planning ahead.  I will certainly do pre-mate tests but won't take Jinx for a scan again unless absolutely necessary.  I will just have to be very patient and put her needs first and not my own.  Luckily the stud dog owner is just as keen to try again and is giving me as much help as she can. The next thing is now to wait until she comes into season again and hope that this mating hasn't upset her too much.

Andrea

I know what you mean about not trusting some vets. I go to a large veterinary practice with my dogs but I now insist on seeing one particular vet as with the others I have always come away feeling my questions have not been answered fully. The vet I prefer is full of common sense as well as veterinary knowledge and does not offer just text book answers. I think vets could all do with breeding a few litters themselves so that they have the experience to know what we are talking about!