I have not been on the forum for a long time. Home issues have made things difficult. For those who do not know or remember me, I have a 13 1/2 month old Briard called Barney. We will have had him a year on Sunday. He has always been a difficult dog, from day one, but we have battled and persevered with him no matter what. We got him at 7 weeks from a reputable breeder and met both parents on several occasions. I wont go into all details, but in short: He still mouths anyone, he jumps up at anyone, my children are so wary of him that he lives in the kitchen until they have gone to bed. The really bad parts are, at 6 months he knocked a lady over whose dog growled at him and she had a bite on her leg! He has food aggression problems and has snapped at myself, my husband and my 3 year old. He will NOT be groomed as he will turn and snap at us. We cannot go into the garden with him as he play? attacks us.

I have been taking him to training since he was 10 weeks old and managed to get his puppy foundation award and then started on the bronze. I had to stop halfway through the course as he would get so excitable that he would jump at me and knock me over. This last week has been the final straw! He has started (again!) to jump at me whilst on walks and badly bite my arms. I am covered in lumps and bruises. I cannot hold him, he is too strong, so I had to put my foot on his lead to hold him down and call my husband to come and help.

I have spoken to a pet behaviourist who has been very little help. Today as a last ditch attempt I got a one to one behaviour trainer in (with 30 years experience) and he witnessed just how bad he can be. He mouthed and striped him, and then on sending me in the garden with him on his lead, saw just how he jumps at me and bites. He then did it to my husband and to him!! He gave us some good advice on how to deal with some of the issues, but none of these will stop him overpowering me!

I am at a loss. I don't know what to do and my heart is breaking. I love him so much. His breeders who I have become very friendly with would take him back tomorrow if I asked. I am tired! I cannot think straight. My life is not my own any more. We just function to get through. Is this life fair on him? Is this life fair on us? I just don't know what to do next.

Julia

I would take the breeders up on their offer and accept that he is just to spirited for you and your family and he are just too much of a mismatch.  This si a woirking herding breed and he obviously is very high drive and would suyit a more expereinced and forceful perosnality on a more one to one basis with the tiem to really train him in some positve role, maybe working trials, Agility etc.

At 12 months old he is still at an ideal age to turn around and make a useful working companion.

I am fully aware of their traits, as I have lived with the breed for 26 years, but have never known a Briard like this. I have done everything for him. I dont WANT to rehome him, but I have lost all my confidence.

Julia

p.s. You cannot use Briards for agility until they are 2 years old, and I am an at home Mum, and have always had all the time in the world for him. I didnt drive 30 miles each way every Thursay to go to dog training for no reason. Sorry, but I am feeling very sensitive at the moment. Sorry in advance.

Julia

O cert6ainly wouldn't expect him to start working until he was old enough I simply menat that maybe he needs a home more work orientated than family orientated to give his drive an outlet and direction.  As you say you have lost confidence which will not help you with managing him, or for him to respect and obey you.

Hi Julie, i do agree with Brainless he sounds like he needs a more dominant person, so he stays within his boundaries, some dogs just aren't made for family life.  I understand that your sensitive i would be but it sounds like your situation with him is getting out of control and before it gets any further and the dog is labelled as anti-social behaviour or even aggression it is better to return him to his breeder so she can turn the situation around before anything serious or life threatening to the dog happens.  I know it's not the type of thing a devoted person wants to here but you've got to think of the best thing for the dog and you which you are doing by posting.  How come your trainer at the training class didn't give you any tips to calm your dog down so you could still train him?

Warm regards susan

Hi Julia - you say that you have become very friendly with the breeders, could you not contact them and ask for their help and advice ?  Obviously they have and know the breed, you have also been around the breed for a long time so between you and the breeder you may be able to work something out.  Behavourists are very good at their job but sometimes there is nothing like an experienced 'breed' member to see things in a different way, to be able to point out a few things that maybe you haven't been able to see for the frustration.

I'm sure a lot of us have been at the point of despair and feel that we have made the wrong decision and maybe it would be better for the dog if we rehomed it - but sometimes a little bit of help from a kindly hand along with maybe a bit of dogsitting to give you and your family a break for a few days makes the world of difference.

Really wish you well with this, sometimes just talking to strangers and having a good shout can make you feel a bit better too - so go ahead, vent your frustrations, we are here to try and help as best we can.  Tara x

Hi Julia, I don't know if you remember, but I have a briard (very dominant and excitable breed) too and have experienced some of these problems with her.  She is now almost 4 years old and is a lovely dog - however she does still relapse back on occasion if I am not careful (today and yesterday for example she has started jumping at and mouthing me in the garden - so I will have to work on that again at the moment :) ).  Please do not despair and do not be in a hurry to give up your dog.  Most of these problems can be overcome, but you do need to be very firm - and you need to work out what will work with your dog.  Feel free to PM me if you wish.

Fiona and Saffy

Hi Julia, just wanted to say sorry that you are having a hard time.  Perhaps a break from him would help you to think things through and get some perspective?

Think back to the other dogs that you have owned and enjoyed - hopefully this will bring back a little confidence.

Best wishes

Can I ask how you are or how you have handled the problems you have/are having? :)
EG the grooming, the jumping up?

My dog used to run at me in the garden and get all silly - she was the strongest minded in her litter and it sounds as if you may have similar. You also do have to be strong minded sometimes -not harsh, that's not ever necessary, but you do need to know "how" to control and train such a dog. It can all be done with kind training, but you have to be firm and know when to coax and when to say "excuse me but you will do as i ask now" :)

It might also be worth doing some activity with your dog on a daily basis - I'd suggest searching for toys thrown into grass etc on walks and elementary tracking to work the brain and to create more of a bond. If you want further details i'll be glad to provide them :)

Lindsay
x

I know how you feel Julie. My dog Lucy has a tendency to be aggressive and often for no apparent reason. However Lucy was a rescue dog who had been VERY badly abused. Even after years of living with me, she still sometimes looks terrified of me, which breaks my heart but I know how scared she is and that's why she is agressive. She is also very power mad and always tries to dominate me and my male dog Alfie. She will growl at Alfie just for breathing sometimes. Thankfully Alfie accepts this and even though he is twice her size he rarely argues with her. It just puts so much pressure on you though. Lucy growls whenever there is food about and sometimes growls and nips at guest for no apparent reason. Thank God that Lucy is a relatively small dog but sometimes it does wear you down having to plan your life around your dog. I used to have to constantly keep my eye on Lucy as I was afraid there may be a fight between her and Alfie as I'm sure it get's him down too. It's quite sad really that Lucy still feels the need to behave this way but I know it's not her fault. She's always been top dog though (there's no way she'd settle for anything else!) and thankfully Alfie knows that. I now give them some time apart everyday and give Lucy time on her own to calm down. If she growls I am now becoming more assertive and if she doesn't stop I put her outside until she has calmed down. Things seem to be going well. I think the key is putting your foot down and letting your dog know that you are still the BOSS! It is hard and you feel like such a failure when you see every other dog behaving but sometimes the dog just needs to be put in it's place. Don't let it rule your life and try having a break from the dog once a day just to relax and not have to worry about it. I think training classes will help you become more assertive and also socialise your dog and learn what is acceptable behaviour. Don't feel you're to blame!    

Hi Julia,

Most of my private training clients have experienced exactly the same problems as your are experiencing and with the right guidelines, they are managing to overcome them. However, in most instances is all about the owner and how they handle the dog. By teaching them correct handling skills, they tend to improve.

Let me give you an example, there is no excuse at all for a dog to jump up if you have them on a lead. You simply step on the lead in such a way that the dog cannot jump up. They may be able to move and inch or two off the ground, but they cannot jump up, throw you off your feet and bite you. Once the dog calms down you reward him and move on. You will probably spend 2-3 weeks not moving very far, but you will have a lot calmer dog that is starting to know his boundaries and how to behave. Also, you need to control the dog with strangers (it really is not fair on them and you need to keep the public safe), so you will need to get a gentle leader (he will get himself out of a halti).

Without knowing you personally I cannot say for sure, but it sounds a bit like this breed/dog is just not right for you and you are best giving it back to the breeder so that it can be rehomed with a person experienced with that type of dog now that he is young.

Dogs should be pleasurable not a bind - if they are, then both you AND dog suffer at the end. I know it's a hard decision, but sometimes the right decision is the hardest one to make.

All the best,
Patty

Hi Julia

Sorry to hear that you are having such a struggle. Dont forget that he is probably at his worst at the moment, being a teenager and pushing all boundaries. First has he been 'done'? this may help to calm him a little.

You say that you want to do agility with him but he is too young, however I dont think such restrictions apply to fly ball, so you may want to try that, to give him something to think about, alternatively retrieving or obedience may give you something to excercise his mind and help you both build/ rebuild your bond.

You certainly need some form of harness/head collar so that you feel that you have control over him when you are out and about. 

You say that there have been issues at home, is it possible that he has picked up on these and this is making his behaviour worse? It certainly makes a big difference if everyone in the house is 'singing off of the same hymn sheet'.

When he missbehaves how do you react? Some dogs if you shout at them it just makes them worse, so a time out is more effective.

You do sound as if you want to carry on trying for a while, so I think the key will be finding someone who you trust and has the experience to really be able to work with you to sort this out.

Good luck

Hi Julia,

Please know that any good owner, no matter how experienced and dedicated, can at some point hit a problem they can't seem to overcome and good on you for persevering.  I hope that some of the advice offered helps resolve things but if not, there's no disgrace in returning him to his breeder if your whole life is being turned upside down.

Just wanted to say chin up and you know you'll get support on here whatever you decide to do ;)

Good luck, Teri  

I am not going to say too much, as I am quite distressed at the moment. I have spoke to Barney's sires' owner and another Briard breeder, and after many tearful discussions, my Husband and I have decided that it would be best for Barney and us if we asked his breeders to come and get him. They are on holiday until Sunday, but I have left a message for them to call me as soon as they get back. Sunday is the anniversary of 1 year to the day since we got him.

Julia

Oh dear, I'm so sorry - I'm sure you're feeling terrible. :( If you're so unhappy the only right thing is to change it, for all your sakes - the human family and Barney. I wish you the best of luck, and you know you have our full support. {{{{{hug}}}}}

So sorry, Julia.  You must be so upset. 

Thank you so much for your kind words, and I am glad that I have some real support. I am trying so hard not to think about it. I wish tehy were not on Holiday because I now have 2 days to wait until their return. I cant believe I am going to do this. I really am broken hearted. Silly to say I cannot imagine life without him. The barking at any noise, the looks, the using me as a towel when he is wet, the tail wagging, sorry got to go, overload!

As a breeder I must say I think you are right in your decision for you and yoru dog at this time.  I ahve on two occasions had a puppy back from people expereinced with the breed.  On both occasions circumstances and tiume had meant that the breed or that individual just didn't make a good match despite previous experience.

Knowing that you are doing your best for him will be a consolation in the long run.

You are very brave Julia and have done the right thing.  Your breeder will be pleased that you have had the courage to do this, I know that I would be if I was in her place. 

It will all turn out right in the end.

Good luck and best wishes.

Dear Julia,

You must feel so awful and heartbroken. :-( It may help to do fun things with him for the next 2 days and really make it quality time between you and doggie. Don't bother too much about his unwanted behaviour, just have fun with him, so that you have nice, happy memories with him. Perhaps have a special walk in the fields where there are no distractions. Also, try to think of all the positive reasons why rehoming him is good. Sometimes writing down the pros and cons help alot. It doesn't matter what you write - it's for your eyes only. e.g. using you for a towel when you have your best top on and being able to laugh about it :-)

These decisions are the hardest, because we are the ones making them and we feel that it is our fault as a result. It will hurt and you will feel dreadful and this is perfectly normal. Hopefully, in a few weeks' time when you hear of his progress, you will be happy inside again knowing he is much happier too.

Wishing you all the best,
Patty

Julia, I am so sorry that it has come to this.  I am sure there are many of us on here (I know I am one!) who would gladly return pups to their breeders at some point in their training.  You are not alone, and your perseverence shows your have true courage and grit.  Try not to feel bad.  My two (includes 10mth old pup) are now at the boarding kennels (we are off on hols in the morning) and although it is eerily quiet, it's also "quite nice" *guilt mode on*.  Take care, and chin up, you did your best. {{{hugs}}}

I know it's a tough decision and it hurts but you really have done the best for you, your family and Barney - sending big hugs and love Tara and family x

Hi Julia,

Have sent you a pm ;)  Don't feel bad - you're being very brave and very honest.  Good luck, Teri

Very very sensible and brave of you to make the descision thats best not only for your dog but also for your family.

Take care Karen

It takes a lot of guts to put the needs of the dog before yours, I'm sure he'll be fine and the breeder will make sure his future is the best she possibly can make it.  Don't beat yourself up about it - he still has many years of life ahead of him, and far better this than he live his life shut in a kennel because you can't handle him.

I really feel for you and with children to think about as well it must be very hard, Just wanted to say good luck.

Well done for making such a hard decision. I have a feeling that we may have to come to that with one of our 2 dogs eventually as it's not fair on any of us to live in a war zone. It must be awful though, lots of sympathy.

Thanks all for your kind words, it helps a little. I feel better knowing that I am not alone, although I wouldnt wish this situation or decision on anyone!  I was quite hysterical last night.  I am dreading telling the children, they will be so upset. I am also dreading telling the breeders, I have become such good friends with them over the last year and they have always been there to help and give advice. I feel like I am letting everyone down and that I am a failure. I suppose these are the emations veryone in this situation must go through. I just wish it were all over. Every time I am near to changing my mind I just look at the bruises on my arm and realise that I have no other choice.

Julia

Reading your posts i dont think you are a failure,you are very brave to realise that you cannot handle him and know it is best all round to let him go back to the breeder,if anything you are an extremely courageous person to make such a decision and from all the other posts that have replied to you they feel you are too.I wish you luck it must of been a very hard decision to make.

Warm regards Lynnxx

a friend of mine was in your position 2 months ago and in the end after much torment the dog went back to the breeder, now she has come to terms with her decision she is much happier and knows it was for the best. you are entitled to live your life and be happy.

Just to let you know that you are not alone as I too have just sent mine back as he was literally killing me physically and mentally.It is heartbreaking but there comes a time when we have to make a final decision-- the problem is I still miss my pal so badly and the tears are very near many times. Each day the pain is a little bit less. This the best for the dog and the best for you but it all seems overwhelming at the moment -- just remember you are not alone in doing this,there are many of us in similar situations.God Bless.Anastasia

Anastasia,

Thank you. My husbad "who never gets emotional" was terribly upset this evening. I have been quite hard faced today, I have had to be! His breeders are home some time tomorrow. We both groomed him this evening to try and make him look gorgeous, it was hard to fight back the tears. I know I am doing the best for him!

Julia

Dear Julia,
I have just read through your posts and commend you for the brave decision you have made.  You are not enjoying your dog, your children are scared of him and the behaviourists/trainers you have used sound as if they have let you down.
You are now doing the right thing for your dog and for all of your family.  He will go back to the breeder and hopefully they will be able to do some work with him as they will not be as attached as you and then they will find him a new home. 
If your dog was laying his teeth on you and your husband at this age then it would only progress and what if it had been one of you your children or someone in the steet?  Your guilt would have been immense.
I wish you every luck for the future and don't blame yourself or feel that you have failed.  You have succeeded because many others would have just left him in the kitchen and ignored him more and more!
Regards

Jo

Julia I am sending you lots of (((hugs)))).  It is a very brave and comendable thing you are doing and i know exactly where you are coming from.
I have owned dogs for 32 years and early this year I had for the first time, to make exactly the same decision as you with my 1yr lab.  It is not that we are useless owners but occasionally you do get a dog and person personality mismatch.  My lad is now on a farm and the most well behaved happy dog ever and being spoilt rotten.   it was such ahard decision even though the days here were fraught and i had tears for weeks before and after.  Now I am happy for him and glad I made that decision.  It was harder for me than him and the best thing I could ever have done for him I realise now.  Doesn't stop those guilt feelings I know but I have learn't through this that it is one of those unfortunate things that does happen now and then to people and dogs and is noones fault.
I now have a 7 month Jack Russell and 11 week Rottiex GSD mad with 2 pups i know and its hard work but they are right somehow you just get that instinct.
You take care my thoughts are with you at this difficult time, but I feel you are doing the right thing.

Bev

Julia, it is Anastasia again,just to let you know I am thinking of you both at this time as it was only a month ago when I had exactly that same decision to make.I too on that weekend,kept reminding myself I MUST go through with this by uncovering my arms and looking at the teeth marks and the bruising.I have many,many times since cried myself out until there were literally no tears left--and then thinking about going to fetch the dog back again and blaming myself for everything.Like you I also have had dogs for years and years of many breeds with no major problems,but this time I just could not carry on feeling so exhausted with the strain of this ongoing problem.I also knew that the dog was probably unhappy too. Sadly these things can happen with dogs and owners however caring and however loving we are -- just as with humans I suppose,sometimes we are just not compatible no matter how hard we try.I also was pretty friendly with the breeders and this made me feel far worse as if I had let them down too.
On a brighter note I have another pup here now and we are getting on great.She has put her teeth on my hand and arm in play and also in grooming ,but she does so that gently that I cannot even feel her teeth at all,so she instinctively knows that to press would be wrong.The house is a lot calmer now,but the sadness of the whole thing  is still carried around in my heart.Take courage my friend,and God Bless.Anastasia

good luck and keep us posted

Very stressful day! I do not know what time his breeders return from holiday; I only knew it is today. It is now gone 7pm and I was hoping that today it would all be over. It is not going to be. I will have to carry on waiting until tomorrow. I feel so numb! The more time goes by, the harder it is going to be.

Julia

Oh that's awful. :( It's terrible when you've psyched yourself up for something and it doesn't happen. I'm thinking of you.

it means you have longer to say your goodbyes and cuddle him and dont forget take lots of pictures ,im thinking of you

They are back, the phone is engaged!! They have call waiting, I am just waiting for the call back. I really need to be strong now!

be strong its for the best

Well I have spoken to his breeders and have told them our decision. They were understanding, but will have to wait for them to make some calls tomorrow to the breed rescue to try and find him a new or temporary home. I would keep him here, but the pain is too great and stress is no good to man nor beast. I will let you all know what happens. Thank you all for your kind support, it has really helped me through the last few days!

Julia

Well, what can I say. I thought today would be that day. I waited for the breeder to ring me back. She finally rang at 4.30 pm. She has not yes spoken to the breed ruscue, and want me to wait a week or more for her and another breeder to come and assess him! Is this fair on anyone? I am confused and dont know what to do for the best now. My husband thinks we should ring the breed rescue ourselves, but I dont want to go behind the breeders back. I cant keep going on like this, I just want it to be over.

Julia

Julia, you must do what I did and insist that the breeder takes him back immediately .She bred the dog and she is the one responsible.The buck stops with her or him.You must realise that they are playing games with you,and this is what you get for being too nice!!I admit the breeders of my dog have not spoken to me since only to promise me faithfully that they will look after the dog for as long as it takes to re home him.

So sorry to hear that you are still having to wait it isnt fair on you and i think the breeder should be responsible for taking the dog back if you have a problem,our breeder stipulates that if for any reason you cannot keep your dog she must be the first point of contact and she will take the dog back and try to rehome and if that isnt possible she will guarantee its life with her,as the welfare of her dogs is important to her,this is on our paperwork from the breeder,fortunately i am niot in your position and i feel for you and think this must be torture for you and your family,i hope it all works out.Thinking of you.

Lynnxx

She says that she is thinking of him, and that she wants his new home to be his last home, and god forbid if it went wrong he would have to be PTS! I don't want that, it would not be necessary. He is not an aggressive dog, he just isn't suited to life with young children. He needs to be with someone who puts all their energies into their dog / dogs! She also said it was a shame we had had him neutered, although I do not see what relevance that has in this situation (only that he can no longer be shown). Hubby is really cross, and says he will ring her tomorrow and say that we cannot wait; it is too much, and not fair on us!

I would be interested to hear a breeders point of view on this matter. Are we being selfish? Can you see what his breeders are trying to do? I need to make sense of all this before I go mad!

Julia

If it were me I'd want to get 'my' pup back as soon as I could. However, there are a number of factors to consider. If your breeder's just got back from holiday she needs to get her household re-settled. Does she have kennels, or are the dogs all in the house? Does she work away from home during the day? Will you be taking the dog to her or is she to collect him? The logistics of taking an adult back into a household sometimes take several days. I help out with welfare for my own breed, and although we try to get dogs rehomed as soon as we can, it's usually easier on the dog for it to stay in its current home until a new owner is approved.

I don't think you're being selfish Julia, I just think you are going through a painful experience which you want to be over with, as anyone would.  Rescue/rehoming is an emotional business for both sides - there are people on the other side of the coin desperately seeking to rehome a dog and trying to wait patiently until the right one for their situation comes along.

However, it does all take time and that makes it doubly difficult for you.  It doesn't sound as if the breeder is being particularly supportive towards you but at least he/she is trying to find a new home for Barney.  Perhaps it would help you to speak to the breed rescue - if you didn't want to do it behind the breeders back, then tell him/her that you would like to speak to them because of the way you are feeling.

I hope that things progress quickly for you and that you find a way to get through it all.

Best wishes.

Julia, I hate to be skeptical but the one thing that stands out here to me is that your breeder is more concerned about the money aspect of breeding than the actual dogs,sad but very true these days as I have personally found out.I can guarantee a pound to a penny if you had not had the dog castrated he would have been back with the breeder the 1st night you rang.They just do not want a non entire male in the kennels as it cannot produce any money for them either in breeding or in the showring,in other words it is surplus to requirements.To them a dog is £'s or $'s, a winner in the ring or an offcast.There is no middle ground and definitely no sentiment in business! Yes there will be many, many  breeders who would have done the honourable thing but sadly they are in the minority.

Rule 1 in buying pups! >I would advise anyone who buys a puppy unless you are absolutely sure you are definitely going to keep the dog for life,then do NOT get the dog or bitch neutered in the 1st year at least.

The only recourse available to you now is to place the dog your self by placing a private ad in the newspaper,where genuine people will want a dog of this type,neutered or not.One thing for sure you are not going to get any puppy farmers phoning you!The other course you can take is to take the dog to a shelter or refuge, we have several around this area that would take him straightaway and give him the best home possible.have a look at Lizzie's barn website down in West Wales,they are devoted to rescue and helping people in difficult situations out.

So sorry you have both got to endure this drawn out miserable situation,but very glad that you now know at least what sort of breeders you have been dealing with.