I have a 5 month old rotweiller (bitch) who has taken a likeing to constantly barking and then trying to bite our ankles, hands arms whatever she can. Sometimes she seems to be playing as her tail is still wagging but other times she seems to go really mad. Its not to bad at this stage as we can still pick her up (just about) but I am worried that if we cant stop it now it will get out of control. We have been told by our puppy class trainer to pick her up of the ground by her jowles and shout really loud at her. However this just seems to make her worse. She has recently passed her foundation and bronze at the puppy class but when she is in one of her rages she wont even obey simple commands Is this normal puppy behaviour - how can we stop this now. I have also heard that the protein in her food could cause her to be more hyper-active - does anyone know if this is true - she is currently on purina pro plan which she has had allways - 29% protein - we are currently in the process of weening her off but the new food has 30% protein - also be weening for around 3 weeks and the diorhha still continues!!! - Help!!!!!!!!
Sarah

Please, if you do NOTHING else, do NOT EVER use the method your "trainer" suggests.  Particularly with your breed.

I do not own Rotties however I do mix/work with large working/pastoral breeds on a regular basis and each has its own idiosyncrasies, and I would strongly suggest that a confrontational method such as this with this breed is the last route you should ever go down.

I would strongly suggest you find someone who understands Rotties or similar breeds or at least a more enlightened trainer/club in the very near future.

Ditto tohme - this trainer sounds like he came out of the dark ages   Teri  :(  

It may not be the protein content per se that is the problem but other constituents.  What is the new food you are thinking of?

It is called Mayfield Kennel - it is also one the trainer suggested - she breeds labs and has apperntlhy always fed her puppies on it.

http://www.jersey.net/~mountaindog/berner1/bitestop.htm

You are obviously in the US as Mayfield is an american food.

Have you looked at Natura pet foods, they have some very good ranges I would recommend Innova.

Look on the net for trainers that belong to the APDT and who use positive methods of training.

Isolation is good, but for only minutes, 3 at most, 15 minutes is too long and the dog will have forgotton why it went out there in the first place.

You might enjoy The Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson which may get your pet into perspective.

HTH

No Im in the UK (Manchester) - the food is from a pet wholesalers!

oh sorry, never heard of it, what is in it?

FWIW I might consider another food

I would steer clear of anything with maize (corn) in it at the very least.

Have you considered Naturediet, although this may be expensive for a big dog, alternatively Burns or James Wellbeloved for a start; Duck is a good food although not easily available via most pet shops.

I don't know where abouts you live in Manchester but I can recommend Michelle Nuttall from the APDT, she breeds, trains and shows Weimaraners and has experience dealing with large dogs.

Alternatively look on the APDT site for trainers near you.
 
Address: Lancashire Dog Training & Behaviour Centre, Bamford Road Heywood, Lancs OL10 4TF
  

Tel: 01706 691122 Email: michelle@helmstar.fsnet.co.uk
 


HTH

Thanks for all your advice I will contact them and see if the can help if the problem persists Heywood isnt too far - live near the Trafford Centre.

Tohme, Mayfield is the own brand name of Batley's wholesaler. They do dog food, cat food, cat litter, rabbit food etc etc. It's reasonably new but have existed for 1-2 years now.

Marianne

Isn't Mayfield Kennels Dogs'R'Us???????

>Isn't Mayfield Kennels Dogs'R'Us???????

yes but the brand for food and accessories has nothing to do with this, it's just unfortunate that Batley's chose that particular name... Mayfield's is to Batley's what St Michael is to Marks & Spencer's. :)

Marianne (Been shopping for all my pet food at baltey's for 17 years now)

Phew!!!  Just alarm bells!!

Thanks, Marianne.

Not feeding commercial food I don't know all the names, never even heard of Batleys, is that an "oop north" thing?

Ducks .......... :D

LOL. :) No Batley's is all over the country but they are strictly wholesale. Mainly they supply corner shops and small outlets like that, but they also have a pet side where independent pet shops tend to get most of their stuff from. Years  ago breeders used to be able to get a Batley's card, these days they are more strict and don't allow anybody but actual traders. I have been lucky enough to keep my card since I was supplying pet shops with small animals on a regular basis. I couldn't exist without Batley's now as we pay roughly half the normal price of everything....

So in a nutshell, the places where you are most likely to find Mayfield's food would be in a small independent pet shop.

Marianne

>"oop north"

LOL :D :D :D

Another medthod the trainer suggested was just ignoring her - but this cant always be done as the biting is painfull and it is hard to ihnore a puppy biting you with sharp needle teeth. I often put her outside for around 15 minutes as some of the books i have read say isolation is a good method. However when we let her back in she just does it again!!! we try to take her attetnion away from it by playing with her toys or training and this stops it for a while. Is this just normal puppy behaviour?

I can't believe trainers like this still exist.  I would think she probably has a stake in the food she is recommending too.

If her tummy was alright on Pro Plan then I would stick to it.  If it is the puppy one you are on, the junior may be a lower protein, or mix adult with puppy for the same effect.  You could always ring Pro Plan and ask their advice.

With the puppy biting, try gently taking hold of her collar (you need a well fitted collar) and hold her out at arms length away from you, all her feet should be on the ground.  You look in the opposite direction so there is no eye contact.  When you feel her relax, bring her towards you, if she behaves, praise her quietly.  If she does it again, do the same.

Hi thanks for your advice!
I will try the collar thing.
We wanted to keep her on the pro-plan but at £10 for a 3Kg bag that doesnt last very long it is working out very expensive - compared to a 15K bag of Mayfield for £12!! I have looked at the contents on both bags and they dont even seem to vary that much!
I just dont know what to do with her!!!

Hi MissSLW,

The link tohme posted is the same method I have always used for my pups and with patience and consistency does work :)  

As to removing your pup when she's over excited, it is better to remove yourself :P  i.e. leave the pup in the room for a minute or two and then return, but do not greet her or over excite her again.  Either completely ignore her or "drop" inconspicuously something tasty on the floor for her providing she is calm and not barking etc.   If you physically try and lift or maneouvre her into another space for time out you have inadvertently given her attention - the point of withdrawing from a game (which she thinks the biting is) would then be lost on her.  Regards, Teri :)   

Hiya MissSLW
My Rottweiler is 16 weeks old and does that, isnt it frustrating because when she's good she's a complete angel, then wow the other one appears lol...We can't even pick ours up she just hates it so we try to ignore her when she does that but hell those teeth are too sharp to ignore, however those "tantrums" are starting to decrease. Like you the "jowl" thingy just made her worse.  Ours is fed on Beta puppy and fortunately her poohs have been ok.  We have just started clicker training with her and in just a couple of sessions she has improved a huge amount.
I know you will get some very good advice on here, so good luck and perserve with her.

Stay safe
xx

Hiya
Thanks for your message - im glad im not the only one suffering - she has been doing this since she was around 16 weeks but i cnat decide if it is getting better or worse!!! I think I may change her to the Beta my old dog was on that but he is a lhasapso!!!
We will persevere she is just starting her silver for the good dog citizen scheme so hopefully the more training she gets the less the barking and biting will continue. Does your puppy just stand there and bark at you? Ours does and when you get up to put her outside she runs under the table so you cant get to her as easily!! She is very clever in that sense!!!!
Also does yours happen to have a likeing for washing on the line????
Thanks
Sarah

>Does your puppy just stand there and bark at you? Ours does and when you get up to put her outside she runs under the table so you cant get to her as easily!! She is very clever in that sense!!!!

She can't do that if you leave ;)  If she's very clever, she'll pick up on that pretty quick :D

Good Idea I will try that tonight! : )

She's testing you , trust me. She's like a teen , trying to test your dominance and see if you break. All my dogs have tested me at 5 months then again at 10 months its just a phase they go through.

Be consistant with your corrections and this will pass.

Thanks for the confidence we will keep on with the training!

yes she does and sometimes even looks at me like she's stalking me, which can be pretty frightening.  I've tried the "leave the room" method and it seems to be working.  With the under the table thing I'm not sure if its more "sneaky" than clever lol...

The link given to the Dunbar article is excellent, I'd also recommend a very good technique for very difficult mouthy dogs known as "3 strikes and you're out"
It may be best to keep a long line on the dog whilst she is in the house so you can avoid any chasing/game playing :P

Basically, you give a marker word such as a sharp (but not aggressive) "ah!" (imagine she is about to spill boiling drink over herself) and then take her out of the room calmly, no nagging, no fuss. No eye contact. You can use a childgate and put her behind it, or put her behind a closed door. As long as she is separate from you.

Let her in again a few minutes later. She may go in again, if so repeat taking her out (remember the marker word).
The third time, (it will happen again initially within the space of a few minutes probably :rolleyes: ;) ) say "ah!" and take her out calmly for up to  half an hour. This allows human and dog time to calm down and gives both a break.

It doesn't work straight away, of course, and she may even get worse before she gets better, but this method is very successful so long as it's done correctly and with consistency and a very similar method worked well on my Mad Bitey Puppy Terv :P

Remember always to praise, give attention when she is good and also use fav. toys to redirect if necessary.

Always take any house line off when you go out, for obvious reasons this is very important!!!

Hth
Lindsay
x

Thanks for the info - sounds like a good technique - it is just so hard and frustrating when she is constantly barking and biting we just dispair!!! Must drive our neighbours mad too - we dont want to be constantly shouting at her or putting her outside on in another room - just dont know what else we can do!!!!
Sarah

as others have said, when she does it, just ignore her.  Stand up, fold your arms and dont look at her or say anything to her.  If she continues then leave the room for 2 minutes maximum.  When u return, return calmly and try initiate a game with a toy.  If she bites again, then repeat as above.  She must learn the appropriate behaviour and that biting results in end of play time. 

Yeah probably is more sneaky - she knows shes doing something she isnt supposed too thats for sure!!!

If you are near the Trafford Centre, could you get across to Wrightington/Heskin? It's just off the M6 at the Wigan/Chorley turn off.
The club I go to is run by a lovely lady who has lots of experience with "problem" dogs, and we have quite a few rotties. I've seen them come along and watched her help their owners turn them around over a few weeks. One in particular had been pinned against a wall in the way you were describing by another so-called trainer at a local club, the poor thing was a nervous wreck and getting quite aggressive. It's great to see him relaxed, and letting other people give him treats now.
Let me know if you want the details.
Tracy

Hi
Yes the detials of the dog training place would be good - we tried the ignoring and walking out of the room method and that seemed to work quite well last night. Her behaviour was a lot better last night than it has been for a while.
Thanks
Sarah