Hi All

Until the last week or so my 11 month old Staff has been great at recall. He has always been terribly keen to please and thrived on praise.

He now runs quite a distance away from me and simply wont come back unless he wants to. I know hes pushing the boundaries because hes coming of age but im not sure what to do about it. Hes doing a whole range of things to test me but thats not a problem as they arent things that will compromise his safety. He wouldnt hurt another dog or human but there are such high levels of dognapping going on that it does worry me. Do I just start training again from the beginning or is there something else I can do? How do I keep his attention when theres something more interesting going on?

I also suspect that its because when we walk the field in the morning its empty with no distractions and he can run as far as he likes as he always turns around and runs back but in the evening he cant go quite so far without bumping into people and then of course becomes distracted.

Cheers

I wouldn't be letting him get such a distance away that I can't enforce the recall using a long line at this stage, and make sure the reward I'm offering is one he considers 'the ulitmate' - liver cake is often good, or keep a special toy JUST for recall on walks.....

Digger

Dont mean to be ungrateful, and im sure youre right but if I put him on a line at this stage he will go mental. He absolutely lives for a run off the lead and doesnt stop whining until I have taken him and let him off.Due to this I dont think I would have his attention anyway as he would be sitting there whinging! The other thing is (sorry should have said this in the OP) he isnt at all food orientated. He is very much toy orientated though - to him his toys are the ultimate reward. If I throw his toy he goes and collects it and faithfully returns. If I am talking to the lady I walk with and dont take the toy immediately from him when he brings it back, he entertains himself with it and throws it in the air and catches it. Its then that he tears off accross the field with the toy in his mouth. In fairness he does always come back just not when Im calling him :(

In the interim I can just keep throwing the toy as I know he is guaranteed to come back but I do feel that I should have complete control of him at all times. I think the difficulty is that he has been off lead walking for 4 months now and its how I go back to basics without upsetting him too much that is puzzling me. I can take him to the park in quieter times to retrain him if needed but its just how I retrain him without it being an issue.

Do you think perhaps I should retrain him without the use of a toy so that Im not always relying on it to get him back? Im also thinking of taking him to classes so that he can train with other dogs around although other dogs arent necessarily the distraction- do you think that would help?
Many thanks for the suggestion, I do appreciate it.

That's the beauty of a long line - you don't have to hold onto the end - you step on it when he's gone far enough and use it to encourage him back to you.  Don't forget, being free is a priviledge he has to earn........

I'd only use toys I can keep control of - such as a ragger or a ball/kong on a rope - once he's got sole control, you don't stand much of a chance of getting him back, and he's doing a doggy 'two finger' sign at you :(

If you feel you need to stop using a reward so much, why not use a 'jackpot' reward system - so when he comes back really quickly he gets a double bonus reward. (If he's not food motivated, I bet he would be if it was actually his breakfast he got as a reward......)  Then, slowly, you only reward the really prompt returns - he'll soon work out that he can train you to give him the best reward by coming back quickly ;)  Ofcourse, YOU are training him, but don't let him know :)
You can't really worry too much about upsetting him - if he's abused the priviledge, he's got to accept there is a price to pay......

Good classes would definatly help :)

Normal behaviour , at 10-11 months your dog starts to test your dominance. This usually happens 2-3 times in a dogs life first at 5-6 months then again at 10 months and again at 18. Your once precious and obedient puppy will become ignorant of your commands!

What to do? KEEP HIM ON LEASH!!

Sigh, :rolleyes: this behaviour has NOTHING TO DO WITH DOMINANCE!

It is a fact of life that ALL living creatures stay with their parental figures until and unless they can fend for themselves.  The timespan varies between species.

Hence why differing species develop certain fears at certain times, it is nature's way; ie there is a particular time for example when humans learn to be afraid of snakes etc...

When animals are maturing, including humans, they naturally want to cut the apron strings and try out their independence, eye up the totty and beat up a few males :D :D :D

Generally speaking Velcro Dogs becomes Bog Off Dog at around 8 months or over depending on breed.

Generally speaking owners do no foresee the inevitable and do not actually actively train the recall from 7 weeks old, as they think that the present Velcroness will remain, sadly it does not, it needs to  be trained so that when the dog is approaching he motorway/railway line/jogger/child/nasty dog etc etc etc you can ensure its safety.

If you have not spent enough time actively training this then you have two options, as has been suggested a long line or gambling with your dog's life.

So you have to decide what you prefer, a free dead dog or a restrained, safe one.

Classes are a must. 

Also I have been taught that my dog will respond to commands better if he is hungry.  I re train the recall, with a hungry dog, regularly just in the garden.  I don't give any treats before training, not cruel because I do this in the morning.  I still go for walks with the young dogs but keep them on the lead when in wide open spaces, when they get beyond optimum recall distance you can find yourself running for miles to get them back.  I continuously call the dog back to me for treats when off the lead, a hungry dog will usually respond, and let him go off for a short distance again.  I also practice putting them back on the lead in between walking a short distance and then letting them off again.

Just a word on the toys, again something I have been taught, look on the toys as yours.  When your pup brings a toy back take it an praise to high heaven.  Every time he brings it back, praise again and take it.  It is a simple thing but I thing your doggy walking palls will realise you are doing this to get your dog back and not deliberately ignoring them.

I re train the recall regularly just to reinforce the work I have already put in.

Good luck with your puppy

Cheers Digger thats much more what I was looking for and the best of both worlds for us both. Very creative - Bravo! I know he will respond to something like this, he would not respond to just being put back on a lead in the park as he would be too distracted by trying to get off of it! I have put in loads of recall training from 8 weeks onwards but this is obviously just something he is going through. It is a diminance thing as he is doing it in conjunction with some other odd behaviour which I wont go into now. In terms of the long line can you buy these? (sorry if this is a silly question but have never seen them) How long should it be? Im not too worried about how much I upset him but it just seemed that if I could find a solution that I knew he would respond to and would suit us both then this would avoid it becoming a huge issue. I completely agree that if he doesnt do whats asked then he needs to go back on the lead and thats what will happen. Luckily hes not interested in other dogs and there are'nt generally many and most of the time there are none at all in the park when we walk and also there are no railway lines or main roads nearby so hes in no jeopardy there - he cant get out of the park anyway as I have thoroughly checked it out. I would be more concerned with him being taken as these incidents are on the increase in this area so a long line would work a treat on a permenant basis :(

On a positive note we had a great walk this morning and he promptly returned every time and recieved loads of praise. I didnt have his toy every time either, he had a little run on his own and came back when called.

I will put all of this into practice and im sure it will be successful. Ill keep you posted.
Thanks again, I cant tell you how much I (oops sorry we)appreciate the help.

you've said that he will come back everytime u throw the toy, so why dont u bring the toy with u everytime?  When he brings it back, use ur recall word as he is coming toward u and praise when he gets to you.  If you dont amuse the dog on a walk, then they will amuse themselves.  Try varying ur route, playing hide and seek and play with toys, make coming back to you more rewarding and fun than anything else that is going on around you. :)

You could even try changing the recall word as he may have learnt to ignore it.  Using a long line is a useful way to retrain recall as u can teach him to respond to u first time, never allow him to ignore the command otherwise he will soon learn he only has to come back after the second time or the eighth time.
I have found a horse lunge rope is handy, its a big thick rope so it doesnt burn ur hands when u have to grab it in motion, they are about £7 and some petshops sell them.
There is another post on recall and someone mentioned dividing the dogs daily ration into about 8 parts and use it for recall, if he doesnt come back first time, one portion goes in the bin, after a few days the dog learns that it will go hungry if he does not respond to you

I do bring the toy everytime. I throw it for him, we play games etc as you have suggested and generally speaking hes brilliant and I dont want to make a huge issue of this, I just really want to nip it in the bud whilst I can. I throw the toy, but if for example I stop to tie my shoe lace or to clean up his poo and he has the toy in his mouth he will tear off with it and comes back when he fancies it :)

In fairness to him he will only go a certain distance and does come back when he feels hes far away enough but thats obviously not good enough as ahe needs to come when I need him to. For 99% of the time I have his full attention and am playing with him, whilst using the recall command when hes coming towards me as you suggested. Its just that 1% of the time that if im not playing with him hes off!

Like I say, not a huge issue and I have some great ideas from Digger to try.

Thanks for the advice about the long line, ill definately get him one at the weekend.

We had a GSD that we got at seven months - she had never been off the lead up to that time while outside.  Soon as she got off the lead she would not come back.  It was really in the house that we got her in the habit of coming back to lead properly.  Beckoned her over for a cuddle, made her sit and said 'lead on', clicked the lead on and gave her a treat.  Walked her through the house to another room, asked her to sit and said, 'lead off' and let her off and away she went.  She actually loved it.  If I remember correctly we did it for about a week in the house, moved it into the garden. She got it in the garden really quick and then same at the park and woods.  We trerated her for lead on fora while maybe a couple of weeks but often she did not look for a treat so we weaned her off the treat. Now as soon as she sees the lead she sits to have it on and sits to have the lead off. I am so pleased we put in the work with her in the house.  It can all be done anywhere that is enclosed so they cant really escape and also where the least distractions are.  It was also through the winter months so it helped with our patience not having to do all this in the rain etc. Do it often enough and you will get it.  He loves praise you said bet it works a treat.
Good luck