for me that is (next time) if there ever is one.    This is a warning to any 1st time breeders who think 'I fancy a litter'  Now, between my father and I, we have around 70 years breeding experience between us, but what happened last night is something I never want to put a bitch through again, or myself for that matter. 

All was well, bitch very ready, premated and showing all normal signs.  Took her to an experienced dog who new the ropes.  They met up and got on very well, she was quite wary at 1st and then began to flirt, and he was a complete gentleman. He tried a few times but had to be taken away before the tie, we though he had tied outside her, but a little stroll round garden and all was back to normal.  After a little cajoling he managed, she relaxed and allowed entry, but on the swelling and tie she screamed like a banshee but not only that, she bucked and reared, worse than a horse trying to dismount rider.  She relaxed again, head between my legs, me holding her neck for dear life, but when he tried to turn, he got half way and off she went again, how he was not seriously injured is only down the experience of myself and 4 other people called into help, we could not allow the turn to take place. The dog was an angel still turning roung and giving her little comforting licks.  Between the 5 of us we managed to hold them both up against a brick wall used as a brace.  I kept talking to her and she settled, but by this time all of us were exhausted, the rain was bucketing down, we were in t-shirts and I was counting the minutes, just wishing he had not tied so quickly, as I would have just taken her away at that point.  I can only thank god he was such a gentile dog as the damage that could have taken place would have been horrific.  I am still so upset about it, thinking what could have happened, and thankfull that both dog and bitch are fine and none the worse for wear today.  Thank goodness the tide did not last as long as his previous mating (1hr 50mins)

Now that this has been done (her 1st and last time) I hope that all works out and now have the worry of whelping and what her reactions and possible complications may be.  

I know it probably has no relevance, but I am still sitting shaking (and occassionaly weepy) and cannot believe that we managed it without severely damaging either dogs, In my whole life I have never experienced anything like it, and I only so pleased that there were another 3 people on hand to shout for help, we would never have managed it without them. He just tied so quickly we never got chance to seperate them

Just needed to get that off my chest :(

Sounds horrendous, glad we don't breed :-). Bit confused by your message title though?

I have heard that awkward mating is hereditory, do you know if there's any truth in that? What was her mum like? Glad they are both OK, he sounds like such a sweetheart.

the sedation was was I needed afterwards. There may be some truth somewhere about awkward matings, but her mother is such a tart, that she guides the dog in and lays down to have a snooze until its all over, so it doesnt come from her lol

I don't think so my oldest bitch was a lie back and do your duty type, her daughter was a right hussy as was her daughter who is m y difficult bitches mother.  Will know in the Autumn if the daughter is going to be like Mum or hopefully like preceding generations :D  I am opting to mate her quite young (2 years old) just in case it was leaving it until past 3 when first trying her mother, and finally succeeding in getting a litter at nearly four.

Sorry to hear about your girl :( Just curious (as I am not a breeder) but why would you want to prevent the tie? Do you normally prevent tie's in your other bitches or was it just that she was a maiden?

Hi Ice Cosmos, really didnt word my post very well, Yes I wanted a tie, but had no idea she was going to completely flip like that, If she had struggled like this on insertion, I would have walked away, It was simply because she was a maiden.  It wasnt until after the tie took place, we had the problem. I never prevent ties, have never needed to before.  Even my maiden bitches in the past have, kicked up a fuss but then settled, this was completely the opposite. She was happy to allow entry and then kicked of on one, which lasted the whole tie,  very dangerous :(

Hi Kay,

Can understand why you'll be feeling twitchy still - sometimes thinking about the "what if's" can make us feel even worse than what actually happens.

Glad you had plenty of help on hand - try to relax now ;)  Teri

Kay I really feel for you and kind of understand where you are coming from. You can't blame yourself as she reacted after they had tied so there was nothing you could do, but i can well imagine it must have been very distressing for you and your girl.
When my bitch was mated last time and missed I felt very weepy as she kicked up such a fuss (no wonder as she had gone over) she was a maiden and absolutely petrified. It was my first experience of mating and not one I'm likely to forget in a hurry. I started to question what I was doing and felt very guilty. In all honesty she was none the worse off but my nerves were frazzled to say the least.
Luckily she didn't repeat the fuss this year. I really hope after all this that she is in whelp and I'll be keeping everything crossed for you :-)

One of my friends dog was evil when she was mated and tried to kill the male dog and yet when her daughter mated it was a totally different story.  I must say when we mated Tigger it was not a love match and neither of them seemed to like each other very much but when did her mum and sister they were perfect.  I do find in general the stud dogs are lovely and when Thomas does his matings he always gives the girls a kiss on the head even if they are growling at him. :)  Try not to be too upset its over now and hopefully she will have some lovely puppies to show for the experience.

My boy had better never meet a maiden bitch then, he's a mad rapist!!! And even the experienced bitches he has mated have screamed as the tie starts!

sorry to hear about that kayc i would of cryed had that of been meg i was mating,glad there was no serious damage and you had plenty of help at hand. sorry it went so badly but its over with now so try and relax! hope she becomes im welp after all the hard wprk youve put in! :)
sarah x x

This is exact;uy howe my Jozi was, had I not held her still for the mating and just held her collar then she would have injured the dog, she was the smae on both days, even though she was not a maiden bitch.

Have to say that I had a similiar experience with my girl who has just had the litter.  I wasn't even sure that she was in season and usually I let the dog turn but didn't with her because of the screaming etc.  The only thing that I will say is that she wasn't a maiden bitch and she had the pups naturally and fine.  We did want her to have more than mating but after what had happened decided against it.

I have everything crossed for you.

Feeling much better now, bitch is fine, in between cuddles, throws daggered looks etc, but none the worse for wear :)  Phoned stud owner, he is fine too, thank goodness.  He is a Sh Ch and owner has only allowed selective studding, so really felt very honoured that I was able to use him. Still having horrible thoughts about what could have happened.  Leaving it at a single mating and not taking her back, I could not put the dogs, me or stud owners through that again. Friends of owners had dropped in unexpected, thank god they did, creeks and no paddles spring to mind otherwise.  so will now keep fingers crossed and hold breath for a few weeks ;) thanks all for reassurance :)

Bitches are often a lot beter at a second mating.

I had a maiden bitch here who scremed and needed holdign and reassurance but on the next two days stood as steady as a rock.

My Jozi was a lot better with the seond mating this time, but still wouldn't have been wise to let go of her as she still didn't like the tie.

Two years ago she did complain throughout the tie, adn in hindsight if we had not been right at the end of her fertile period a second of more matings might have helped with trying to mate her this time.

I am happy though as she has now had two litters by the same dog (as I am one of his owners), but would not ahve wanted to inflict her on another possibly inexpereinced male.

I would hope that now I know that she is much better getting to know the dog from start of season and me assisting when needed that I can get her mated to another dog for a last litter.  It will need an expereinced stud dog and an owner willing to trust him to me :D

Sorry to hear of your bitch who did not enjoy being mated Yes we all worry about our bitches  being mated and the stud dog We own both Having had a bitch come to one of our boys she was premated test They fetched her when this said only to behave like your bitch We said if they wished they could fetch her back for a 2nd mating
This they did two days later to see if she would allow a mating Well a different bitch she pulled to my boy stood rock solid got mated no and i mean no problems with the tie
She had puppies to the 2nd mating as she went over her due date of the first mating
A friend had something like this with one of her girls with a premate left her for a couple of days later bingo every thing ok she to had puppies
Before any one jumps down my neck yes premate does help some breeders with there bitches I have nothing against it Good luck with your bitch hope she does have puppies for you
If she does miss try her next time try her a few days later then this time we have found over the years some bitches are better mated later starting around days 13/ 14 some even later good luck will wait to see when you let us all know what she has we all hope for you  Paige

I don't understand why they scream and panic, surely it is what they want. Instinct and all that. Does it hurt them? Surely bitches in the wild, wolves, wild dogs etc don't make that amount of fuss or they would never have litters. I have never seen, or would ever want to see from what you've said, a dog and bitch mate. Does the tie distress them just because they are stuck together or is it painful? LOL Innocent aren't I?!

My bitch was better on the 3rd and 4th matings (days 15 & 17) I think it makes it difficult to know wether you are doing it at the right time when they are like that. Glad to hear she is feeling a bit better now and so are you ;-) fingers crossed that it has worked :-)

Have you never heard foxes screaming when mating?    When first heard, you'd think that someone is being murdered!!

Some cats will scream during mating as well !

Margot

I seem to remember reading somewhere that cats have some sort of spikes on their penis and that's why the female screams, or is that a load of rubbish??

I hope so!

Quite true a tom Cat has a Barbed penis.  It  appears this stimulation helps with ovulation.

Interestingly enough Rabbits actually ovulate due to the stimulation of mating.  If they are mated with an unfertile buck they will ahve a false pregannacy and won't be fertile again until several weeks later.  If mated to a fertile male with 48 they will conceive.

Nature has some weird and wonderful systems.

ouch poor cats no wonder they scream ! :) so because a males bit gets bigger wile mating thats how they tie is it? do they then release once the males bits have shrunk? coz i never knew how a tie was made. :)

Not only does he become bigger but there is a gland at the body end of his penis the bulbous glandis and it is this that sweels up inside the bitch to achieve the tie. 

It looks like an extra set of testicles if you ever see a dog that has tied itself outside the bitch (an inexpereinced, over excited dog, or when teh bitch moves at the crucial moment).

ah now i understand! :) thanks brainless!! :)

Ah, glad I'm not going mad (about that memory anyway!!) :-)

Glad to hear you got another mating ;-) also my bitch got better with each mating, hence the 4 (LOL) Think you need to put your feet up now phewwwww :-)

The problem for the maiden bitch is that when the male penetrates he is not fully erect, he achieves penetration thanks to the penile bone.  He becomes erect within the bitch, and many bitches find this frighteneing and/uncomfortable, even though they are happy enough to mate.  Some like mine have lots of Libido but hae their wires crossed as to Geneder roles. :D

Oh Kay I can imagine how you feel.  My first every mating went a bit like that BUT 2 small dogs is a bit easier than 2 big. I remember having to take deep breathes as I thought I was going to throw up.

Fingers crossed she takes and that will be that.

Lucky you had help on hand.

Take care. Chin up.

Pam

Well, to add to the saga :)  Stud owner phoned this morning and said, bring her back down tonight,, soo to cut a very long story short, I did,   since I was taking the tartlet, AKA Emma to another stud not a million miles away. Arrived at the home of Emma's stud and ended up with a slip mating, Emma the tart was a very willing participant, stud was far too eager lol. So another trip down on Tuesay for Emma. While at Emmas stud we phoned the other studs owner who brought the dog over, so we would have enough experienced people on hand.  Again she stood for entry and again she kicked off, but after a short while she relaxed, rested against me and settled, still throwing me 'killer looks'. another 20min tie. So a big sigh of relief, the stud did a self congratulatory lap around the garden and bitch wagged her tail all the way back to the car. Emma looked totally put out and thought she was going to get another go.  We did try, but poor stud exhausted himself on the thrust and just could not get the angle right, and the poor owner of the other stud, who at this point was doing the guiding, (and also got covered in the 'ahem' stuff) :P said it was like holding onto a guided missile but someone forgot to attach the 'heat seeker' lol.  I am knackered to but it bluntly, in three days I have managed 2 9hour round trips, a Ruby wedding, A judging seminar and a dog show. oh yes and 5 hours sleep.  Now running on empty :D :D :P 

Oh I am glad she was happier, now on a third mating she would be totally happy lol :D 

At least if you breed from her again shw will be a lot calmer with a more positive experience this time. 

good lord someone else who lives in the twilight zone lol. Thanks, it went so much better, and have to say the stud owners were fantastic, so now its just fingers crossed and hope that the whole episode was worth it lol :)

Oh Kay,

You have been burning the candle at both ends. Get some rest woman ;-) :-D ;-D

Fingers crossed she takes now. :-)