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Topic Dog Boards / Visitors Questions / AKC GSD puppy 9 weeks (Black and Tan)
- By Guest [us] Date 05.07.05 23:30 UTC
I have a 9 week old male puppy color is reddish/tan and his tail has a black diamond half way down his tail and a black tip.  Friends tell me that a sign of some wolf somehwere in his blood.  Need to know if that true and where do I get more infomation.  anewman4@nc.rr.com
- By Teri Date 05.07.05 23:31 UTC
You can relax, there's no truth in it at all ;)
- By clutha [gb] Date 06.07.05 03:44 UTC
Unless he's had a transfusion from a wolf, he wouldnt have "wolf in his blood" under any circumstances.
One assumes he isnt a GSD/Wolf Hybrid??. I have lived with 2 of these.
Yes, he will have some wolf deep down in his DNA somewhere.
But then so does a Shih-tzu, Pekingese, Lhaso Apso, Greyhound.
Methinks your friends are vicitms of the "pub-chat" fallacy of the "Alsatian Wolfdog" myth; this goes back to WW2 and before.
It existed (surprised it still exists!!, havent come across in modern times before) merely because when the original breeders of GSD's bred them they were bred to resemble wolves.
Thats it, end of story.
The oldest recorded breed type is in fact the Greyhound, which is mentioned in the Bible, few thousand years ago.
Toy dogs (Lhaso Apso) were bred by Tibetan monks in ancient times to; to live up the sleeves of monks robes, so when they jumped out and nipped a stranger, they were proved to have Evil Spirits (methinks a lack of socialisation, actually!!).
GSD's are only about 150 years old.
Thus, Lhaso Apsos and Greyhounds actually have more "wolf DNA" than your fabled "Alsatian Wolfdog"!!!
Breed proportion Wolf DNA have been measured in tests.
- By Moonmaiden Date 06.07.05 05:41 UTC
<Methinks your friends are vicitms of the "pub-chat" fallacy of the "Alsatian Wolfdog" myth; this goes back to WW2 and before.>

Actually the name Alsatian Wolfdog has actually nothing to do with any "wolf"blood/genes etc, after WWI(not WWII)the first GSDs came to the UK with the returning soldiers(they were dogs that had been picked up by the soldiers)when the KC got involved re the name the Germans were so unpopular(Dachshunds were attacked in the streets etc)that they decided to call them Alsatians(as one or two had been seen in Alsace-Lorraine by Col. J. Baldwin of the famous Picardy Alsatians)& Wolfdog because they had ears & other visible similarities to wolves. The Wolfdog was dropped after a while due to the public believing they were part wolf. The name was corrected in 1977(thanks to Raymond Oppenheimer of Bull Terrier fame)after many years of the senior breed clubs trying
- By clutha [gb] Date 06.07.05 08:33 UTC
 
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 06.07.05 07:32 UTC
Remember the guest is in the US (going by the topic heading!), where wolf crosses are more accepted. However I doubt very much whether there has been any additional wolf blood, especially in a registered puppy, because that's usually (sadly) considered a selling point.
:)
- By tohme Date 06.07.05 08:24 UTC
This black diamond or triangle often denotes the final coat colour, GSDs generally get darker as they get older and with each moult.

For example, when I picked up my GSD puppy he was red/fawn with a black mask, he now has the dark overlay and his tail is totally black.

There is nothing of a wolf in a GSD, unless it has been deliberately bred as a hybrid.  The character of the wolf would be incompatible with what is desired in a GSD
- By clutha [gb] Date 06.07.05 08:34 UTC
Hi Moonmaiden, thanks for the further detailed information.
However, i think you may have misunderstood my post, particulary your quote
My post says the same as yours; explains about the "Alsatian Wolfdog *myth*", which existed "merely because when the original breeders of GSD's bred them they were bred to resemble wolves" and that he "wouldnt have wolf blood in his genes",  and that dogs like "Lhaso Apsos and Greyhounds have (more breed proportion) DNA than your *fabled* "Alsatian Wolfdog".
I knew of the stories behind the 'Alsatian' and 'Wolfdog' name changes.
Quite ironic for a German dog, I always thought Alsace-Lorraine was in France???? LOL 
- By clutha [gb] Date 06.07.05 08:37 UTC
Good point about her being in the USA, home of the Wolf-hybrid, Moonmaiden.
I overlooked that, espesh now i realise she has an American email addy.
- By Moonmaiden Date 06.07.05 09:31 UTC
Alsace-Lorraine  has been in Germany & France over the centuries ;) one reason the Col Baldwin thought of the name Alsatian was because Alsace-Lorraine had been in Germany but was at that time in France
- By Spender Date 06.07.05 10:06 UTC
The original German shepherd studbook, Zuckhtbuch Fur Deutche Schaferhunde (SZ) shows that several pure wolves were used to create the breed.  Assuming that all present dogs are descendants of the original 18 in Stepanitz Kennels in the late 1800's, then yes, there is recent wolf blood in the breed. 

I also understand that there were a number of books written in Germany in the early 1900's but when translated all references to recent wolf heritage were removed.

It is therefore quite possible that your friends know something we don't.  That's assuming that your dog is not a wolf hybrid.
Topic Dog Boards / Visitors Questions / AKC GSD puppy 9 weeks (Black and Tan)

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