i have a black girl pug and i was wondering if i breed her with a fawn and black masked male pug if the colours would be mixed. because u dont see any mixed coloured pugs. or do u have to breed them with the same colour? plz help any1

Hi guest

I don't know much about Pug colours so had a look and it seems you have only black and fawn in the breed with rarer colours sometimes cropping up. 

Black is dominant to fawn (which is Ay sable) so unless your girl carries fawn all the pups will be black.  If she has a fawn parent, she will be a carrier.  If there is fawn further back, there is a chance she carries.  If so, each pup born will be 50:50 chance black or fawn.  Mask is dominant to non-mask and unless fawns without mask do occur in the breed, all pups will be masked.  Blacks also have a mask, you just don't see it because it's black on black.

And no the two colours don't mix.  Fawns do sometimes have a heavy black overlay but that's nothing to do with any black in the breeding.

Julie

Hi guest, either there are an awful lot of pugs around, all of a sudden, or you are asking a lot of questions about breeding, colours, showing, etc :)

I would suggest two things :-

1.   Join us - its free, not all of us bite :D - there is a lot of experience on this board, and although you'll  be asked an awful lot of questions, and you may think you are being asked to justify those questions, you will get straight answers.

2.   Join the Pug breed society (sorry can't help with contacts there, but if you look on Champdogs first page, there are links there) - and again, you should use these people as your guides and mentors!

Look forward to seeing you sign in!

Margot

Looking at the way the messages are typed it looks like the same person :d

Go on join us, it's free and most of us don't bite :d

What concerns me is that if this is the same bitch from the other thread she has a hernia and as far as I'm aware bitches with hernia's shouldn't be bred
Archer

Again archer that depends on the hernia in question!  If it's a small, late closure then theres no real problem!

Why 'again' Ice queen? I don't see the neccesity for that 'tone'.

<<<<<because u dont see any mixed coloured pugs>>>>>

Guest I would also suggest that since you are asking if you can breed 'mixed coloured' puppies I suggest you have a lot more homework to do before breeding a litter as pugs  should be a solid colour( with exception of a mask in some cases)
As to age I would think that 12 months is FAR too early to breed a pug.
Archer

Hi Julie and the OP,  ulie, where did you look this up?  Wanted to know, as Black is NOIT a dominant colour in Pugs - mating a fawn to a Black will not produce Blacks unless the fawn carries  black.  The Fawn gene is acutally potentially one of many due tothte fact that Fawn derives from many original colours (Fawn, Apricot, Silver and even white , back at the start of the 1900s)  Fawn to Black matings often lead to a dilution in the black colour, and light nals, as well as loss of the desirable silky black coat.  Nor does it add to the pigment in the fawn,  although you are likely to get some degree of "Smutty" fawns
bye
Gwen

Hi Gwen

I didn't find anything giving actual genes involved in the breed, just pictures which is enough to give an indication of what is involved as colour/pattern genes are the same throughout canines, though some pattern combinations are breed specific.

I don't think there could be any doubt over the fawn "gene"......Ay (sable) produces this colour pattern in many breeds and varies in shade from deep red/apricot (eg Bull Mastiff, Boxer, Rhodesian Ridgeback, Pom) to pale cream sable (eg Belgian Shepherd, Dachshund, Finnish Lapphund)

Both fawn and black are pattern genes not colour, so don't influence the shade of the dog and can't cause dilution.  Other genes are responsible for this.  There is also the possibility of seal which is caused by the dominant black gene in heterozygous state which could be what another poster described as brown but I think that's unlikely.  The black overlay is controlled by genes totally separate to both colours and can be carried by blacks as well as fawns.

Very interesting if you are getting breeding results that indicate fawn is dominant to black  It could be possible that recessive black is present in the breed but that would be very unusual as this is known only in herding breeds AFAIK eg GSD, BSD, Sheltie, Finnish Lapphund.

What results have there been for fawn x fawn and black x black matings in the breed?

Julie

julie, when i said that a diluted black is more like brown ,what i meant is that is highly unlikley that you would get a single coated black from a black to fawn mating. this resulting in the black coat having a rust/brown tint to it. the single coated blacks also have a blue skin. where as the fawns have a double coat. there is a distinct difference when looking at a true black pug, its almost blue/black and the coat is like velvet.
but your post was very interesting none the less.

from the poster saying
<<<<because u dont see any mixed coloured pugs>>>>
It sounds as if she wants to breed bi-colour pugs not a mixed litter
Archer

Hi lottie

The rust tint would be controlled by modifyers inherited separately to the black or fawn gene and could be carried by any colour, it's just you don't see it in a fawn because the coat is already light.  If blacks are normally bred to blacks only, it is likely that the tint has been bred out of these lines.  If you then introduce a fawn, it could be reintroducing the rust modifyers. 

Interesting about the double coat.  I think blacks tend to have a less dense coat anyway.  Sorry I haven't read the standard,do you want a double coat or not?

I would not have though there were enough blacks around to breed only within the colour.  I do think it a shame when colour becomes the #1 criteria for selection, it does limit the available gene pool.  Not saying this is necessarily the case in Pugs but it's happened in many breeds.

Julie

Hi Julie
Both colour and type are different between blacks and Fawns- the blacks have the ul;tra, fine single coat, the  fawns a double coat (but still fine, not fluffy!)    Black to fawn will only produce Black if the fawn carries the black gene, and as you rightly say the fawns outnumber the blacks so much that not many fawns carry it.  If you are interested in the genetic codes in the Fawns let me know and I will PM them. 

bye
Gwen

Hi Gwen

I would be very interested.  Why not post here, there may be others intersted?  :-)

Julie

Gwen, I've now done a search and can find nothing to suggest there anything other than the normal inheritance of black and fawn in the breed ie black is dominant to fawn.  Looked the breed up in some of my books too.  Well known colour writers - Little, Robinson & Willis all agree the same, though opinions on the genes involved have changed since those books were published and some DNA sequencing has been done to confirm this.

A fawn with mask would be genotype - Ay kk Em
Black - Ay K Em
Black carrying fawn - Ay Kk Em

Julie

guest, if you were to mate a black to a fawn pug you may get a mixed litter, by this i mean some fawnpuppies and some blacks(as the black would be diluted,it may be more like brown)
pugs are a very spealized breed so i wouldnt take breeding a bitch lightly, if she is a much loved pet then i wouldnt risk it.As a novice breeder you may lose her and any resulting puppies. go and buy another puppy if thats what you want.