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Topic Dog Boards / Visitors Questions / HELP! Noisey Puppy!
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- By Guest [gb] Date 10.05.05 08:31 UTC
I have a 10 week mastiff puppy who sleeps outside in a kennel at night. He used to bark and whine when we put him out at night but he soon stopped that. The problem is when he wakes in the morning he starts barking and whining and wont stop! This is usually at 4am!! As you can imagine, my neighbours are not very happy because he is rather loud! Can anyone offer any advice? We have no other problems with him, he only took 5 days to house train, and he already knows sit, paw etc! Please help as i am suffering from lack of sleep and i dont want the neighbours to complain! Thanx :-)
- By Carla Date 10.05.05 08:40 UTC
Can't you bring him inside? Seems a bit harsh to leave a ten week pup out all night alone. Perhaps its just me though. I wouldn't dream of doing it. A pup out with littermates, company, in a heated kennel and run might well adapt - but to take him from his people and put him outside alone (assuming he is alone!) is asking for him to bark and whine etc. JMO :)
- By Loganberry [gb] Date 10.05.05 08:41 UTC
10 weeks is very young to let him sleep outside at night, he's probably lonely thats why he starts barking so early, call me soft but i'd let him sleep inside at night time, some where safe secure and where he cant get into mischief. Leave him plenty of toys chews ect so he's not bored.
l
- By Moonmaiden Date 10.05.05 08:52 UTC
It could be that the light is waking him Try covering the windows, but he might just need a wee & a cuddle
- By denese [gb] Date 10.05.05 11:49 UTC
I wouldn,t leave a little puppy outside all night, poor little thing, just left his mom, he is probably frightened.
I am sure you would be. At that time in the morning, it could be someone getting up for work, or coming home or even the milkman. He probly thinks if he barks someone will come and get him. Is he on his own?
- By frodo [au] Date 10.05.05 11:55 UTC
Poor little blighter :(

The solution to your problem is to bring the wee mite inside with his family,where he belongs!! Easy fixed :)
- By scarymary [gb] Date 10.05.05 11:56 UTC
just wondering if he is house trained why is he outside ?
- By mackleback Date 10.05.05 12:07 UTC
mastiffs get VERY big, so i can see why you are keeping him outside at night. i have a mastiff puppy the same age and am doing the same thing! all of the breeders that i have spoken to say this will do him no harm! he is inside with me all day as i am a stay at home mum and he only goes out when i go to bed. i think he barks to let u know that he is still there and once he realises you come back, then he will stop barking on his own.  i read this in one of the many books that i have about mastiffs. hope this helps.
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 10.05.05 12:17 UTC
What form of heating has the kennel got? What bedding has he got?
- By frodo [au] Date 10.05.05 12:26 UTC
Why have him inside all day long,as you say,only to turf him out at night,may i ask what the point of this is :confused:

This is an extreme sore spot with me :mad:
- By mackleback Date 10.05.05 12:33 UTC
why do you have such a problem with dogs being put out at night?  mastiffs are dogs which can be outside, unlike some other breeds which i would understand keeping them in. our puppy is VERY happy and well loved! he is not being mistreated in ANY way by his sleeping arrangements! lots of dogs go to kennels when their owners go on holliday, is this not acceptable either?
- By frodo [au] Date 10.05.05 12:40 UTC
But why do you have him inside all day with you,but put him outside at night,may i ask what the point of this is ? :confused:

I have Boxers,some would say they would be fine outside at night,me,i wouldnt dream of it :(

I shouldnt have even logged on today,it's been a cruddy day from the start,these posts are just compounding things :mad:
- By mackleback Date 10.05.05 12:51 UTC
you didnt answer my question about putting a dog to boarding kennels. wouldnt that be a lot crueller if the dog had never slept in a kennel at all? everyone has the right to choose where their dog sleeps, but i think its unfair to say i am doing my dog any harm by putting him out at night!!!
- By Coleystaff [gb] Date 10.05.05 13:02 UTC
noone least of all Frodo actually said that you were causing any harm to your dog, they were just trying to understand the reasons behind it. Now that you're on the defensive you're trying to answer a question with a question instead of answering it. Not fair!!
- By mackleback Date 10.05.05 13:05 UTC
sorry if it seemed that way, i just love my puppy to bits and didnt think i was doing anything wrong. but now it seems everyone else thinks i should be doing things different, thats all. i hope i am not causing him any harm because that is the very last thing i want.
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 10.05.05 13:30 UTC
You haven't said what heating the kennel has?
- By ana_x [gb] Date 10.05.05 15:04 UTC
I think if you persevere, the dog will get the hang of it. Don't keep chopping and changing. It's your choice if you want to keep the pup outside at night and a lot of people do keep dog's in kennels.

Personally, I would never do it myself but I don't believe theres anything wrong with it as long as the dog has sufficient heating and a comfy bed and water etc.

When I got my kitten, and he was feeling a bit lonely, it was suggested to put in a ticking clock with him and a hot water bottle. Aparently this reminded him of his litter mates and his mothers heartbeat. Don't know if this would work, pup maybe too old, but might be worth a try?
- By Wendy T [gb] Date 10.05.05 17:32 UTC
Your mastiff is supposed to be your best friend and your protector. What is the point of keeping any domesticated canine outside.If you're worried about being burgled well keep worrying cos the burglar will be inside while the dog is stuck outside. Also what mastiff books have you read as we have every single one and not one recommends keeping a dog outside.
Steve.
- By mackleback Date 10.05.05 18:18 UTC
i never said my books recommend keeping ur puppy outside! i said that they say a puppy will bark to let you know that he is there and that this will stop when he realises u are comming back!
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 10.05.05 18:32 UTC
It doesn't always work like that, I'm afraid. Often they'll keep barking until you come back.

To be alone is a terrible thing for a puppy. :( Dogs are social animals, and isolation from the rest of the 'pack' is the worst punishment they can inflict. Your pup could be wondering what on earth he's done wrong ... :(
- By mackleback Date 10.05.05 18:48 UTC
i didnt say My puppy barks, i was just replying to the guest question. my puppy has no problem being outside and i just wanted to make sure guest knew that it does work if that is what they want to do. everyone else is comming down a bit hard on them when all they wanted was a bit of advise not to be told they are doing something wrong!!
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 10.05.05 18:59 UTC
Honesty is always best. If someone is doing something wrong, the sooner they know the better ... And a 10-week old puppy, outside on his own, with no mention of any form of heating when we've had frosts the past couple of nights - well, that's just wrong, I'm afraid.
- By denese [gb] Date 10.05.05 13:03 UTC
It seems to be if your born big its a problem, but they are still babies "puppies"  my dogs, "Samoyeds" are not small, my male is very big, But, they spend a lot of the day out and came in at night. So would you put a yorkie puppy out at night?
I could understand more, if there was two of them.
- By mackleback Date 10.05.05 13:10 UTC
no, i wouldnt put a yorkie outside because i have plenty of space where he would be safe by himself at night when he is full grown. unlike my mastiff. am i doing a bad thing?
- By Carla Date 10.05.05 14:52 UTC
I have 2 danes, both are in at night. I wouldn't dream of putting them out - for a start, their job is to guard the house at night and they can't do that in a kennel and run in the garden!

Also - the puppy is more likely to bark when reassured by the owner (see post above), not stop. Its a rewarding behaviour.
- By scarymary [gb] Date 10.05.05 13:12 UTC
sorry im not getting involved or judging anyone ,but just wondering if you have your big dog in all day when you are doing house work ,cooking or whatever you do around the house and he doesnt bother you or get in the way,what harm would it do to let him sleep in doors even if it was just untill he grew up abit ?
- By ana_x [gb] Date 10.05.05 15:01 UTC
sorry wrong person..
- By denese [gb] Date 10.05.05 13:22 UTC
I would't put a puppy outside, Its like raising children every one to there own. But, this pup doesn't seem to be very happy about it. It is a problem if they are big with little space. but isn't there anywhere it could just sleep until morning? Dog's are a bit like people what suites one doesn't always suite another even in the same breed, mine are like chalk and cheese.
- By Wendy T [gb] Date 10.05.05 13:46 UTC
Hi I have five adult Mastiffs,all sleep indoors,I would not dream of putting such a young pup outside on its own at night,Mastiffs are very people orientated,and he must also be missing his mum,and litter mates,whys he in all day then put out at night he must be very confused,maybe purchase a large crate for him,
Wendy
- By Lindsay Date 10.05.05 14:42 UTC
I would tend to agree it must be very confusing for him, with you and maybe inside in the day, and then left outside at night.

I'm not trying to be rude, just honest :) and seeing things from pups viewpoint.

Is there a specific reason he is out at night; for instance,were you told this was normal for Mastiffs? :)

Lindsay
x
- By Trevor [gb] Date 10.05.05 16:42 UTC
I would guess that you may be worried that he would damage the house during the night which is why he sleeps outside - could you not buy a large crate so that he can sleep indoors safely untill his chewy puppy stage has passed ?.

I feel that you are expecting too much from such a young puppy - after all if he has slept through outside on his own until 4 a.m. he will be desperate for some company by then. I would also be worried about someone stealing him during the night.

I do have friends with Mastiffs and they would never put such a young pup outside all night on his own.

Yvonne
- By justlou Date 10.05.05 20:16 UTC
Hi.... Bring your puppy in at night, then he wont make noises.

Problem solved :-D :-D :-D
- By Annabella [gb] Date 10.05.05 20:49 UTC
Your puppy should be with you at night,i just could not put a 10 week old puppy in a kennel outside or a adult dog for that matter dogs need company,he is such a baby of course he will wake at 4am ,poor little love,a neighbor has a 9 week old pup on its own in a kennel outside,i will never speak to her again,i just think some people need educating on animal welfare issues.

Sheila.
- By susantwenty? [gb] Date 10.05.05 21:27 UTC
If you do decide to still leave him outside put something of yours with him so he can snuggle up to it, he is still very much a baby and it will take him time to adjust.  If i was you though i would definitely reconsider leaving him outside because he just be maybe stolen by an opportunist with him being so small.  If you leave him outside because you are worried about damage to your house by a kongo from petworld or any other pet shop and stuff it with biscuits and salmon paste that will keep him occupied through the night.

Regards Frank
- By frodo [au] Date 10.05.05 23:46 UTC
Mackleback,why do you keep ignoring my question? :confused:

why do you allow the puppy inside through the day but put him out at night or is it because "someone" told you to do it?

In answer to your kennel question,i would imagine that any dog would be scared in this strange situation wether he was kept in or out at home.Honestly dont think it makes a difference!
I have never kennelled my dogs anyway :)

The more you refuse to answer the above very simple question,the more i think you yourself dont even know why you do it? :(

Hope to hear from you soon :)
- By husky [in] Date 11.05.05 06:04 UTC
Ah poor little chap! I'll be thinking about him tonight, all alone, scared and confused outside, no doubt wondering why he keeps getting told off. I agree, bring him in where he belongs. Mackleback, I don't understand why the size of the dog matters, if you can keep him in all day and put him out at night? Do they get bigger at night?!
- By frodo [au] Date 11.05.05 06:28 UTC
Mackleback please come back and let us know WHY?? I dont mean to pick on you,that is not my intention at all,it's just that your methods are a wee bit confusing and TBH make no sense.Inside day,outside night :confused:

I really wish you would defend your actions,without answering my question a with a question :)

Look forward to hearing from you :)

I will be sending warm and cuddly thoughts to your little man tonight......
- By mackleback Date 11.05.05 06:58 UTC
frodo, i understand that you do not agree with keeping a dog of any sort outside at night. but my puppy has no problem being out. i was just offering advise to the guest question. my puppys kennel is warm, cozy and very safe! we have security cameras up and locks etc so there is no chance of him being stolen or coming to any harm. i choose to put him out at night because the breeder advised me to do so. obviousely i wouldnt do it if he was in any way distressed by this!! he does not think he is in trouble by being put out, he goes out of his own accord. i was only wanting to point out to the guest question that their puppy may not have had time to settle into his new routine yet, i hope this answers your questions for me. if not, i would be happy to reply again. :-)
- By Carla Date 11.05.05 09:51 UTC
Can't see the point myself - my danes are in the house at night doing their job - alerting us to anyone around who shouldn't be and guarding the house.
- By mackleback Date 11.05.05 08:27 UTC
frodo, i havent heard back from you, so i am assuming that i answered your questions. please let me know if you have any more. :-)
- By Lokis mum [gb] Date 11.05.05 09:28 UTC
Although he is big, his is still a baby, stil missing mum and litter mates.     I would advise that you get a crate for him (sorry - you do have one, don't you :) ), make it his "secure" den, and put his bed in there, in the house.   If you feed him in, make that the space where he goes when he WANTS to, you might get on a bit better!

Margot
- By Havoc [gb] Date 11.05.05 10:02 UTC
Why do questions like this have to end up with so much anthropomorphic nonsense? I'm sure that the owner would be going through the same issues if the pup slept in the kitchen (although with slightly less diturbance to the neighbours!)

At the moment the pup has become accustomed to going to sleep in his kennel, but is not yet used to spending time there while he is awake. Therefore regular, short, 'practise sessions' during the day will help. The more time a pup spends in its kennel, the better they adapt to one (and some breeds adapt much better than others). However, he still needs to be spending most of his time with your family. The light mornings at the moment will be waking the pup this early.

The pups speedy house-training may actually be acting against you, as it may be wanting to be let out to go to empty itself. A less clean pup would be more likely to just soil his run and then go back to sleep. If you pop down and let him out to empty himself, but dont make too much fuss of him then just quietly put him back in his kennel until you are ready to let him out later. Hopefully, his bladder & bowel control will improve and the time he wakes will get later and later. As the mornings get darker things should improve, but there are a few months to go before that happens.
- By Carla Date 11.05.05 10:07 UTC
Why do questions like this have to end up with so much anthropomorphic nonsense?

Um, not all responses have been anthropomorphic nonsense. Some of us simply don't agree with putting a ten week old puppy outside - and theres nothing anthropomorphic about that. IMO you either keep dogs out or in - and I can't understand why a pup would be put out at night at all :confused: Especially not when the only suggested reason is one of size!
- By mackleback Date 11.05.05 10:16 UTC
chloe, it was not the guest that said the reason for them putting their pup outside was size! I said that was one of the reasons that I had MY puppy outside (who is quite happy about it!) but the main reason i did it was because my breeder recommended it and i wouldnt be doing it if he wasnt happy or was distressed! as i have said already!  if the puppy is happy, all is well!
- By Havoc [gb] Date 11.05.05 10:40 UTC
Some of us simply don't agree with putting a ten week old puppy outside - and theres nothing anthropomorphic about that.

:-) I'll happily agree to differ on that one.

I'd suggest that many people can find a happy medium with the dog spending time in both a kennel and with the family. In my experience an early start will greatly help with the process. These dogs will usually cope much better with the periods of seperation that are virtually inevitable for most families.

Most (but not all) of the replies seemed to be based on sentiment rather than any practical difference between a pup kept in a kennel, and anywhere else where it is not with its owner (eg the kitchen). :-)
- By Carla Date 11.05.05 10:46 UTC
To quote from my first post: A pup out with littermates, company, in a heated kennel and run might well adapt - but to take him from his people and put him outside alone (assuming he is alone!) is asking for him to bark and whine etc. JMO 

I feel my reply was based on common sense - not sentiment :)
- By Coleystaff [gb] Date 11.05.05 11:03 UTC
nothing wrong with sentiment or emotion better than seemng cold and aloof . When owning a dog, some of us owners see our animals as more than pets but more as part of the family and we wouldnt leave our family out at night would we!  I dont understand the practicality issue either I'm afraid, if you're saying that the pup will grow too big to stay in the house in the night then he/she must be too big to stay in the house in the day. So unless you plan on leaving the dog outside 24 hours a day which is cruel and I dont think anyone will disagree, then you dont have the proper facilities for a large dog and shouldnt have one!!
- By mackleback Date 11.05.05 11:11 UTC
i am NOT cold or aloof!!! just because i put my dog out at night!! i said that my puppy would grow big for there to be a suitable SAFE PLACE (ie. where he could not damage anything or himself) to say by himself! there is planty of space for him to be in the house with company! i researched this breed of dog for 2 and a half months before even looking for a breeder! so i am sure that i DO have the proper facilities for my dog, and i think its VERY unfair of u to say that i shouldnt have one!!! :-(
- By Coleystaff [gb] Date 11.05.05 12:59 UTC
this reply was directed to Havoc moreso than yourself as he/she used the words sentiment and practicalities. Even though I vehemently  disgaree with your keepng your dog outside you havent actually appeared uncaring.
- By Havoc [gb] Date 11.05.05 11:37 UTC
Colystaff,

I understand your feelings however IMO it is quite possible to regard a dog as being part of the family without treating it the same as the the rest of the family.

It is virtually unavoidable that most dogs wont be seperated from their familes at some point during many days. I'd suggest that an outside kennel and run would be a much better alternative than a crate, particularly for a large breed such as a mastiff. During this time any destructive tendencies or lapses in house training will result in much less stress for the owner (and consequently the dog).

I really cant see any negative points about leaving a dog in a kennel and run rather than the kitchen/house other than possibly the temperature difference. Temperature can be easily solved with a heater if required (although many breeds will not require heating - I've no experience of mastiffs). The positives of less mess / destruction in the house, potentially more space for the growing pup tip the balance for me.

There is no need for the use of a kennel and run to equate with any neglect of the dog. I know many dogs that lead enjoyable, fulfilling lives that are kennelled at times.

 
Topic Dog Boards / Visitors Questions / HELP! Noisey Puppy!
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