We have been told that lip licking and yawning (if done by us) sends calming signals to the dog. We've also been told that this is Submissive Apeasement. Are we sending signals to Max that we are his subordinates (that we are submissive) and he is an alpha - anyone got any opinions ?

I feel I should contribute with my considered opinion.
Yes if you and members of your family take turns first to lick his lips and then rollover on your backs with your'e legs kicking in the air it should have a calming effect on him.
The best method in family situations is to take turns doing this but allways make sure the TV is turned of in case a dog bark noise is emmited, this could counteract the calming proccess.

Hey I'm serious LOL Thats what we were told by an APBC behaviourist - to lick our lips :P

>>>>> Yes if you and members of your family take turns first to lick his lips and then rollover on your backs with your'e legs kicking in the air it should have a calming effect on him.

Now that would be a sight to see - I wonder if the first person to lick Max's lips would be tongueless !!!

Surely by this behaviour you are saying you are submissive to Max and that is defeating the whole object ??

Is this post for real ??? If it is can you please explain further as I'm sure I'm missing the point somewhere (wouldn't be the first time!!)

Sara

God Sara you dont lick the dogs lips you lick your own as supposedly a calming signal but I was just asking if anyone thought it was submissive. I'm not putting my tongue in Max's mouth - sheesh :P

roflol - I know you meant lick your own lips but the other post reads to me you lick the dogs lips !!! You know - like submissive dogs do to higher ranking ones :P
I just know if I lick my lips ( or my dogs and I would dare LOL) and then roll on the floor kicking my legs in the air as the poster suggested I'll get jumped on and that is by a pack member who is lower ranking than me and he knows it.
To do this with Max would be risky would it not ??

Sara :)

Sallhyt has understood the problem but with all due regards she has unfortunatly missed part of therapy, after each member of the family has followed her prescription you must then, again each in turn, throw a bowl of cold water over each other.
I hope this helps.

I think Max would think we were nuts and walk off if we did roll over - unless he thought he had us trained to roll over and play dead :D

How does the cold water help LOL ?

perhaps the cold water helps you to realise that someone somewhere is taking the P:D makes you wonder how we come up with these ideas, no wonder our dogs are confused!:D

right--i know this one!!!!!if a dogs licking its lips--its worried, they get a tight mouth and do slow licks---definitley a worry thing----so if you're licking your lips-then you'll appear to be worried too,

As a member of UKCB Ltd I can give you the solution, all you have to do is ingnore him.

UKCB??? Who are they? So what happens when you ignore the dog? I'd predict his behaviours will get more and more pronounced unless he's given some idea of what behaviour is expected of him. Banger has already been advised to reinforce the training he has already done and start asking the dog for a required behaviour when he starts acting up. I believe this is much more effective than simply ignoring. But then I'm not a memeber of the UKRCB, the UKCB, the APDT or MENSA.......

Um, yes, i was going to ask what the UKCB is too - oh sorry i forgot the LTD :D. Er - I am sorry but unless it is a "newy" I dont think it exists? Please put me right if I am wrong, but i guess a member would know how their own organisation is spelt. :)

Banger, as usual (!) youwill find differing opinions here, (surely not!!! :D) but it was Turid Rugaas who believes lip licking etc may help calm a dog, she has done a lot of work on dog/human body language and wrote a book called "Calming Signals" which is available from, guess where, crosskeysbooks.com

Others will tell you it is only a signal of appeasement, but I do beleive that different signals may be used in differnt situations anyway.......

JMHO :)

Lindsay

Well you've heard the old saying "Ignore bad behaviour and reward good". But sometimes you just cannot ignore some bad behaviour such as nipping and using you as a toy.

As for the lip licking - I thought there would be a few different opinions - and thats a good point Lindsay - it depends on the situation. Without an indication of when to perform this ceremony the advice is useless!

After having read a few pages from "Dogs are from Neptune" I have discovered that lip licking can also be a subtle fear attribute. This does go back to the submissive theory - for example if the dog is near a stranger and licks its lips it may be trying to appease the stranger and make him/her go away - sort of avoidance behaviour but very subtle - showing that the dog is under stress and wants to get away from the stranger or dog (flight).