I own 3 Bordeauxs all are fed on Bakers complete with added minced chicken or tripe,but they just never seem to put any weight on.Vet says they aren't under weight,but they look so under nourished does anyone know of anything that will make my dogs a little fatter?

In what way do you think they look under-nourished? Vets tell us that the majority of pets in this country are overweight (just as many people are) and that owners have come to think of 'fat' as being 'normal'. If you can see your dogs' ribs from across the room, they're probably too thin. If you can feel their ribs quite easily when you stroke their sides, then they're about right. Slightly underweight is healthier than overweight, especially a large breed like a dogue.

Bakers' isn't an ideal food for any dog, and if you supplement it with extra protein you're actually unbalancing their diet.
:)

Bakers would be one of my last choices of dog food!

Your dogs probaly look undernourished because they are being fed a food that is not very nourishing to begin with :(

Take a look at the ingredients :) Not much meat in it,is there?? The food contains mostly fillers which have zero nutritional value and grain fragments! I'm surprised how any dog can thrive on foods like this :(

There are many better foods out there that you can feed your dogs,foods with out all the preservatives and colours etc.

I would be more than happy to discuss this further with you tomorrow at a more reasonable hour :D

I must agree....bakers is probably the last food I would feed aswell.As well as its poor nutritional value it is full of colourings and preservatives.Food that is made into pretty shapes and colours is done to appeal to the humans that buy it...its makes no difference to the dogs apart from the fact that additives are put into it to make it these pretty colours.
If you wat a good quality complete but don't want the price tag attached to some of the premium brands try Autarky...it has a good meat content,no preservatives or additives and is very reasonably priced
Archer

hi how old are your dogues? because they wont fill out untill they reach about 2 years depending on their lines,but bakers is no good at all for them it has so many additives and colouring and hardly anything nourishing in it in my opinion its rubbish,i feed mine on either aurtarky or arden grange both are very good complete foods and both are free from additives and have a high meat content and wheat and gluton free,

Phew,thank goodness!!!

I thought i was going to get shot down in flames for bagging a "commercial" food.

I've gone through the archives and seen a few members get slated for disagreeing with a particular food!

I would love to hear from anyone who's dogs have actually thrived and lived to a ripe old age on a food such as bakers :)

Although I wouldn't feed Bakers now I know there are 'better' foods on the market - my first dog - a large Lab cross (possibly even 'Labradoodle'!!!!) lived to 17 years of age fed on high cereal complete mix made by my local feed mill (Jordans of Biggleswade)........  However, my current 13 year old is doing VERY well on Naturediet, and I've no plans to change back - IF I had to look to reduce costs, then I'd probably consider Autarky as well, or possibly Chappie or Butchers tripe tinned.......

Which is the best food to give our 12 week old collie cross puppy ?
We are collecting her from our local dogs home next week.

Lyn you should find out exactly what the dogs home has been giving you pup till now, if you suddenly change diets, it could give your pup a poorly tummy, and we all know what that can lead to!!! If you would like to change his food, give him a week or so to settle in, then mix a lot of the old food with a bit of the new food (I'd say about 3/4 old food, 1/4 new food), then over the next two weeks or longer if you can, keep adding a bit more of the new food untill it is all new food, don't rush it though, and if you start to see any differences in the dogs waste then go back a step. It sounds like hard work, but if it will stop your pup from being ill, then it will be worth it.

hi, just looking at all the bad things said about Bakers Complete. my girl is on this now, she is just over 4 weeks into her pregnancy. we were thinking of changing her food but didn't know if we can change it now or wait untill after whelping.also where can we get these other foods that people are recomending
many thanks julie

If she has been keeping good health on this food I would not worry to much.  The other posters are correct in saying colouring is wasted on dogs but on the other hand if they have shown no sensitivity to it, which is the usual problem, then I doubt it is doing any harm as the levels are always within legal limits, usually many times under the safe limits determined by research.  However I do like to change my bitches food to a puppy food with higher protien around about 6 weeks gestation so I think you will need to be thinking about a change around about then it would be too much at this stage.  I would not therefore at this stage change to a different adult food as I don't think 2 changes in short succession would be a good idea :)

hi
thanks for your reply, she has got a small bald patch on her head which the breeder we took her to said it was because of too much protein in her diet. as for changing to puppy food, is it ok to give her bakers puppy or change completely?
thanks julie

I'm not sure about bald patches being too much protein but I would say that any food that really suits your dog should lead to a good coat so I would say, yes, this would be a good opportunity to change to something better.
I would ask her breeder if she can recommend something that she has found suits her dogs.

I used to feed Bakers and my dogs thrived on it for years,  The only thing I did find was as they got very old they tended to get overweight very easily on it.
Many many pet people feed Bakers and I think the majority have no problems, if it was that bad noone would feed it and they would be out of buisness.
Every dog is different and what one thrives on another won't.
I do agree about all the colourings etc and i don't actually feed it anymore, but i did try raw feeding and ended up with 2 very sick dogs, so that obviously wasn't for them.
I now feed either Wafcol or Pets at Home as both are Wheat Gluten Free and they work for my dogs.

Bev

But Bev the "average" pet owners dont really know the signs of excellent health!

For example that rank doggy breath and that oily scruffy coat are normal doggy things,that lack of energy and cricketty joints are normal for an ageing dog,but that dog is only 4 years old! That bluish grey covering over my dogs eyes is normal,isnt it??? I could go on and on!

These are only a tiny,tiny few of the excuses i have heard over the years,one of the classics being,my dog likes the colours in her food :rolleyes: No offence to anyone but how could someone think that a food containing all the colours of the rainbow and the first ingredient being a cereal of some sort could actually be beneficial to their dog???

>but how could someone think that a food containing all the colours of the rainbow and the first ingredient being a cereal of some sort could actually be beneficial to their dog?

Maybe, but thats not the same question as will it be detrimental?  Certainly cereal based foods do not seem detrimental to many dogs, thinking of Chappie, in particular, which has been the saving of many a "failure to thrive" :) so quite the opposite really.
The vast majority of dogs you see bouncing round in the park are not as you describe above so I think the average dog owner will have plenty to compare it to if a particular food is failing their dog nutritionally.

Commercial mass produced dog food is made with the profits of the company that makes it as the number one issue. Cereal based dog food cost little to make and yes dog can do well on it the problem is they have no eat more of it to obtain the protein levels required.
Manufactures know this. If you ring the Purina help line their advice is that if you buy their pro plan food their top of the range food you would feed less than you would of Bakers. She also said bakers was made to appeal to those who like the look of the food and her exact words it made to look like two meat and Veg (So not the dog but the person who buys it). So cheep food you feed more of to extract the protein so you have more waste to clear up. Quality dog food that contains meat as it first or second ingredient cost more but gram for gram is more beneficial and cost effective.not just my option but Purinas as well  catching on fast thease big boys-Jo

I don't know any companies that don't seek to make a profit :) wouldn't last long if they didn't!
It's horses for courses some dogs do better with a high fibre diet, I know because I've owned one.
I do agree the colouring is a bit pointless :) and I would not seek it out, but not necessarily harmful.

Yes but its how the make they profits! No one is objecting to companies making money but the larger the firm the more apt they are at maximising how they make profit. A large sports (well known) company has recently admitted it uses child labour in India to produce its goods because they are cheep labour . The point is if and they do, a manufacture Can get away with using the cheapest ingredients it can buy  then sell the product by clever advertising (not on the content)it will.
Just watch the next time the  Bakers advert is on telly it uses words like succulent and mouth watering. These are aimed not at the dogs that are going to eat it but the humans who buy it so they don't care a lot about what's in it just that it sounds good.-jo

I have no doubt there can be unscrupulous large firms same as unscrupulous small firms but like in all things the majority, like human kind generally, will be decent people. 
Large firms have the advantage of being able to cushion themselves against any fluctuations in ingredient costs before compromising quality which is something small firms are not always able to do so it cuts both ways :)
All pet food adverts are aimed at the humans that buy them, animals can't read :D

As you know I use Trophy who do not advertise, but sell buy giving samples away and allowing dogs who can't read the chance to taste and allow the owner to read their product guide. in a world of sameness
I find their small friendly approach a breath of fresh air.

Sameness! Is that a new thing we should be worrying about? :p ;)

only for those who have never read Catch 22 

Phew that a relief 'cos I'm sure my dog hasn't :D

Not a great believer in reincarnation then! My dog loves to sit a listen
The highland lament by the Corries one my late mother's favourites.
Spooky, but I have learnt never underestimate your dog they know more
Than we think!! I do think I need to get out more but like I said every ware looks the same!! ( all this very much T.I.C)

Hi, try feeding a food which doesn't bloat your dogs with no citric acid, or alph alfa, this will help guard against bloat when you are looking for your new feed, also go for meat being the 2nd ingredient. How many times do you feed your dogs? and what age are they?

Warm regards Susan.

Bravo Theemx :)

Susan,IMHO meat should be the first,second and preferably third ingredient. It should certainly NEVER be the second,with a maize or rice overiding the meat content :( Show me a food like this in Britain and i will half by happily feed it to my raw fed dogs :)
There are hundreds of commercial foods like this in the U.S,why cant it be like this here???

What is the problem??

The thing is, many many dog owners dont KNOW when food is causing a problem.

Many dog owners take slightly whiffy breath, farts, 'doggy smell', scurfy skin and scratching a lot to be a 'dog thing'...... if its scratching, bung some frontline on it, if its got pongy breath or farts, feed it a biscuit from the supermarket advertised as containing wonderful ingredients that make it NOT fart or pong.

Its only when you start feeding a diet that is MUCH more suitable for a dogs digestive system, that you realise there was something wrong in the first place.

How many people have hyperactive dogs with itchy/scurfy skin problems and put it down to 'well they are susceptible to it/he is a springer/weimeraner/whatever, they are NUTS????

Most of these complaints and others (who thinks or used to thin it was normal for dogs to do several GIANT turds every day, of a bright orange colour and bulky, soft consistency?? who thinks its perfectly usual for a vet to have to express a dogs anal glands???? i DID!) are directly related to the p!ss poor diet we are lead to believe dogs can thrive on!

Em

Bravo Em (theemx) - I am tempted to print your last statement and pass it to the next person I meet with dogs that you describe and to those that feel the need to tell me how dogs cant eat raw meat, or how, if its permitted its not harmful...That includes some vets I have met too :D 
Sarah (who couldn't have put it better herself ;))

or how, if its permitted its not harmful..  :D :D

Em thats what i tried saying before,too many owners think their dogs substandard health is normal :(

What really annoys me is when Boxer owners(my breed) accept that their dog has died of cancer,"because boxers are suseptible" None of my boxers have EVER died of cancer,there are ways to feed cancer and ways to starve it,i do my damndest best to provide the latter!

Gosh, I'm so confused. Just got back from the vets with my two dogs who have both had intermittent diahorrea for at least a week, which could be a food thing or it could be a bug thing.  He seemed to think it may be a bug, but I'm not so sure anymore.  I feed them on Bakers and was considering changing anyway to a wheat and gluten free complete food, possibly Burns (bit expensive).  However the vet didnt seem too convinced. I now do not know what to do for the best.
Alison

I used to feed my GSD on Vitalin Lamb and Rice as she had an intolerance to wheat and gluten and it's free of them both and reasonably priced. 

I think it is a myth that good dog food is expensive. I fee my labs on JWB mostly. Sometimes they get fresh veg and meat, depending on what i can get at a reasonable price at butchers. However, because of supplier problems here on the Isle of Man, I have used bakers from time to time, and it has cost me a lot more because they eat more of it, and I have to pick up three four times more often.  I also tried one very very well know commercial brand, and we could not sit in the same room as one of my dogs due to the rampant flatulence.  With a good food you dont have to feed as much, so it is a false economy to think that the other commercial ones like Bakers are cheaper. If I run out I give them veg and fresh meat, sardines, tripe etc. I don't add it to the complete thought as then you are screwing up the mix.

Supa Dog also have a sensitive variety which is wheat gluten free and is cheaper than Burns. 

Too many people compare price on a bag to bag ratio,when they should be comparing how much they cost to feed per meal,it will almost always come out even or sometimes cheaper to feed a super premium food :)

For example one would probaly have to feed 6 or so cups a day of a food such as bakers,whereas a more nutrtionally dense food,you would only have to feed around 3 cups a day.

I used to think you get what you pay for,cheap foods use cheap ingredients etc. but then you get foods such as beta,pedigree etc. who use cheap ingredients and they arent exactly the cheapest foods around to buy,so this can only mean that the manufactures are making a huge profit at the expense of the people and their pets :(

The only true way to evaluate if your getting what your paying for is to learn how to read the ingredients,or should i say decode them :D

Unfortunately some of the more expensive foods (sadly including Burns) are too rich for a couple of my dogs and go through them like dose of salts. They may be excellent foods but they're no good for dogs like this - they go downhill badly. The cheaper food gives them the nutrients they need that they can't obtain from the 'better' food.

The only true way to evaluate if a dog food is good value is to see how it suits the dog.
:)

Too Rich in what ?    

No idea. But they get the squits. It simply doesn't suit them and they do much better on lower-spec foods.
:)

I agree JG its just the way some dogs are, perhaps the genes behind them.  Don't British breeds of horses and ponies have to have a less "rich" diet than types emanatining from other coutries?
Frodo I think you have to actually feed these foods to find out the quantity a dog is likely to need, the quantities quoted on the packaging are notoriously unreliable and tend to push it up a bit :)  I have never fed Bakers but my dog eats barely more in quantity of Beta than she did on the "low residue" ones we tried.  In fact someone recently speculated that it would take a medium dog about 7/8 weeks, I think, to get through a bag of Beta when in fact it would take my dog about 15 weeks so I think there are some asumptions being made about foods people have never tried :)

Eating guides are just that ,you also have to take into account age ,gender, exercise and as well as the quality of the food .to use the statment the foods too rich means nothing if you have no idea of what rich is. Some better quality foods advise that if the dog shows signs of the runs then over feeding could be the cause. after all how many people go to the bother of measuring out the food correctly I bet on the whole people just put a couple of cup full in .
Education is nothing if it's met with I know better syndrome-jo

>Education is nothing if it's met with I know better syndrome-jo

I couldn't agree more.

:D

I have got my sisters 7 month Doberman bitch which is very spoilt and she could not cope with her. I have thrown the coloured chews away, stopped the tinnned food and started her up on pets at home puppy complete, soaked in warm water. She is a lot calmer considering we only picked her up on saturday. Maybe it's the food or that we are not pandering to her every need, probably a combination of both. This is though my first encounter with a Dobe and I would like to get the feeding right. She looks underweight for 7 months, though her coat shines like glass and she not behaving like a starving dog. Should I be feeding her differently or is the complete I'm using going to be enough. The ingredients look the same as you would pay for a dear food. Also I'm feeding her 4 times a day, my sister fed 2 times. Which is right and should she have suppliments. I would ask Daisy the Dobe but she's sleeping at my feet after a trip to the naughty room.
thanks

At 7 months most dogs are down to two meals a day, and are often changing to an adult food rather than a puppy one. At this age they're generally fairly leggy and lanky - this is normal!

When she's standing still and not panting can you see her ribs? If not, then she's not underweight.
:)

You're absolutely right about the British ponies, Isabel. Many of the non-wild ones kept in paddocks rather than living on moorland need to wear a muzzle a lot of the time when the grass is growing strongly to prevent them eating too much and developing crippling laminitis.
:)