I heard this morning that the female owner of the Presa Canario dogs in America, that killed a passer by, has been of 2nd degree murder and faces life imprisonment, and her husband has been convicted of manslaughter.

I wonder how this will affect dog ownership in the States. Will we see more restrictions in the UK? Should this have been a criminal case or should it have remained a civil case?

What do you think???

Fiona

Couple Guilty

Definitley guilty and deserve to rot.

well,have any of you sat in court on a murder case,well i have and it was a member of my family at was in court,,what you hear and read in the papers or web site may not be ture. the only people that know what gos on are the one that are there at the time. now trying to put their lives back together,so donot judge them untill the court case is over,there always two side of a story,this is my views,

In this case the trial IS over and the verdicts were guilty, so people have not been judging them before the case is over.

Joan
Take the rough with the smooth

It wasn't a passer by who was murdered, it was a neighbour who had complained about the dogs 2 weeks earlier. The victim was savaged by one of the dogs outside her own front door. So the question is, why was this dog off it's lead in the street anyway? Although the prosecution say that the dog's owner did not actually set the dogs on the victim, how can we be sure? She did nothing to try and stop the attack and didn't even call the emergency sevices.
My personal opinion is GUILTY. This is a clear case of irresponsible dog ownership, and I suspect that although no order to attack was given, she knew that the dog would do just that. I only hope that this will not have repercussions on the millions of responsible dog owners all over the world.

Sharon

If you do not take care of your dogs and get into this sort of serious situation then the only people to blame are you. Those people mentioned failed their dogs and themselves.

Julieann

This I true Julieann but unfortunately the Dangerous Dogs Act stemmed from irresponsible owners and that affects all of us. :(

Regards, John

Quite true! Why blame the poor dog when the owner is obviously to blame.

Yes John you are right regarding the dangours dogs act, very scary thought?

Julieann

Apparently the dogs were in the hallway, and the owner did throw herself over the injured woman and got mauled herself. Not to say they are anything less than guilty but why did the woman get so much more jail time than the man? Also the dogs were being kept for an inmate of one of americas fine judical institutions and were well known for breeding dangerous dogs. These dogs had also attacked other people before hand. Very nasty case, and i hope that it doesn't cause a knee-jerk reaction against those breeds that are thought to be "dangerous" or "vicious" considering these were cross bred dogs.

Hi Fiona,
There is an excellent accounting of the incidence, the laws and the court case at
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/Whipple.html#criminallaw

My humble opinion: At first when the government filed charges, my husband and I could not see how a dog attack could fit into necessary parameters of Second degree murder unless the owner had instructed those dogs to attack. After reexamining the State's case, I could see how this fit. The couple possessed dogs that they repeated over and over to others that they were dangerous dogs and unpredictable. They would also say to others how gentle they were. They kept dogs in their house that they ultimately could not control or predict. Similar to giving a 7 year old a gun to hold.... you realize that the child might understand that the gun is dangerous, but eventually an adult can predict that the child will eventually pull on the trigger, just not exactly when or at what. The odds makers would have laid down bets that these dogs would eventually attack someone, just not exactly who. These people deserve what they get.

As far as impact on the US ---just adds more to the average individual who doesn't know much about dogs to believe certain breeds are deadly and prone to killing and hurting. Most don't see it as bad owners & training. They don't see that these dogs never really had a chance because of the terrible and cruel owners they had over the years.

There is another incident hitting the news broadcasts now that CA is over except for sentencing:
On 14 Feb. 2002, 10 year old Alicia Clark was mauled to death in Mauston, Wisconsin, by six rottweilers at the home of a friend. She was pulled off the couch and dragged from room to room. The dogs eventually stopped and her friend had to lie by her body to keep the dogs away until her mother and boyfriend came home. The two have been charged with: homicide resulting from a vicious animal, reckless endangerment and child neglect. The "homicide" count carries 15 years max, but the evidence did not fit "stiffer charges."

Most US cities have a limit of three animals to a household, unless there's a breeder's license. Yeah, I know many break this rule. I'm just curious, does anyone know the age and genders of these dogs? Not much else has been said in the news other than these basic facts. I do know that---- The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta, Georgia, estimates that nearly 2% of the U.S. population is bitten by a dog each year. This translates to more than 4.7 million people per year, most of whom are children.

So this is a serious concern for all dog lovers in the States. My biggest problem, though is educating children on how to behave around animals. Running and screaming around any animal is not a good habit. My dogs have learned to ignore it, but some of these kids are really agressive. I had an 11 year old come out of a group waving a large walking stick in the air at me and my dogs. Sure, they started barking as soon as he threw it at them. The adult in charge said nothing, so I definitely did. When I do read about bites, I feel for both parties, but I wonder sometimes what the kids might have done to warrant that action.
Oops :o didn't mean to go on so long, please forgive :o
toodles

Kids and dogs as a topic must open the doors for loads of experience I m sure, my son was bitten by a friends dog when he was four, he assumed it was as kid friendly as our three, all he did was get up off the sofa and lean over to stroke the dog, luckily he wears glasses so his eye was protected, yet he still thinks all dogs are to be hugged.

Lorraine

I certainly think that dogs that have notorious reputations will be affected by these recent events. I cannot imagine what a 10 year old girl sitting on a couch could have done that deserved such a reaction from "family pets". Their is no excuse as far as I'm concerned in that case. As far as the San Fran case, those dogs where breed to be agressive. The incident happened in the hallway that the woman lived in.
The woman who owned the dogs appeared on a morning news program before the trial and basically had no remorse whatsoever. It all comes down to the way dogs are breed, and raised. Those who think it's cool to own a dog that will protect them or attack on command. I feel it's damn right that the owners be held accountable. I even think that breeders who breed dogs for these purposes should also be held accountable. They should not be selling agressively breed dogs for pets. That is how so many breeds have lost their respectability (German Shepards, Rotties, Pit Bulls, Dobes). What a mess.

Hi Bumble,
I hope that I didn't imply that the 10 year old girl had any blame for her death. That's not what I meant to say at all. Sorry, if things got hooked together in my posting to mean that. When I usually wonder about "partial responsibility" is when a dog manages to escape a yard and goes after a specific kid. Was that kid meanly teasing the dog through the fence over time or were others earlier to get the dog irate enough to escape? Another good argument against leaving a dog alone outside all of the time.

The lawyer for the defendants was definitely nuts. I had never seen such theatrics even in government.

I know that kids & "hugging" have caused some difficulty in the past for me. I never "hugged" a dog when I was growing up, let alone those that were in my family. So the first time a kid tried to do that to my dogs, it suprised both my dogs and me. The parents thought it was "cute." I didn't. I thought the kid had fallen on top of my terrier and so did she. She was wriggling to extricate herself as soon as she got over the shock. A good thing she likes kids, or it could have turned out badly, especially when the kid grabbed her muzzle and started making "kissy" sounds. I managed to get the kid separated as he started to pick her up. That kid was really quick.

If he had done this to my younger dog, I'm not really sure what would have happened. She was still a little "squirley" about strangers then, but has never liked being grabbed or picked up. They're small and a five year old can seem huge and aggressive in their doggy brains. Now when I see kids approaching, I try to anticipate more of what they're going to do than what my dogs will do. I can predict my dogs behavior easier than the smart human children. I just try to keep everyone calm...especially the kids. Too bad THEY don't know sit/stay :D

I have followed this court case with great interest ... and like those posting here fully agree that the owners should shoulder the blame. If a dog is agressive then it should not be outwith the owners control at any time and always muzzled in public .. the potential of these dogs to kill was there and known (even if the dog had never succeeded in biting before a dog of such proportions which acts in unpredictable ways should be covered like this).

I lived in Dundee at the time after the young girl was killed by 2 rottweilers while on holiday, she came from Dundee. Her mother was instrumental in the campaign against dangerous dogs and I fully understand her emotions. What horrified me there was the people who opposed her desecrated her daughters grave and sent her hate mail. Now we all love our dogs but responsible dog owners would understand her total loss and devastation .. and her drive to change that to protect children. If I recall in her case the child had been walking the dogs... now I would accept that I would never have allowed my teenage daughter to walk two large dogs (wouldn't even allow children to walk my very gentle dogs!), but ultimately dogs should not be capable of doing this.

However I do agree that in many cases the owner cannot be blamed where children are concerned. Last week I took a rescue dog to the vets, and a toddler ran over to it and hugged it. Now I had little knowledge of this dog and was horrified at what the potential could have been ... fortunately dog accepted it. The mother however just said "don't do that .. then did nothing to control the toddler", I pointed out to her the dangers of allowing such behaviour and she seemed uninterested!!

I agree with you that children should be taught about not approaching strange dogs, but it can be hard when they are tempted by that sweet doggy face. Which makes it equally important that the dog owner do his homework and learn how to properly socialize their puppy with children. If you cannot commit to doing proper socialization with your puppy, then in my opinion you have no business bringing your dog where children have access to them. I do realize that some kids can be very rough with a dog, and this is not acceptable. But when it comes down to it, nobody is going to side with the dog owner whose dog attacked a small child because it hugged him, that is reality.

I have to agree about kids being taught not to approach strange dogs, but I think the onus must come down to dog owners to take responsibility as kids do not know fear or respect until they have something to equate it with, I trust my rotties with my 5 year old but I would never leave him alone with them, and if he has friends round the dogs go outside. When we run the rotts on the beach as soon as we see another dog they are put on a lead, not because I don t trust them, it's because if anything happens they are 'a dangerous dog' and would subsequently be at fault, not the other dog who is happily wandering round ignoring their owner and charging full pelt at mine. One of mine was attacked by a GSD whilst she was on the lead, Oops, sorry, a defensive rottie mum.

Hi Bumble,

I do disagree a bit with your blanket statement about "no one ever siding with the dog because the dog has been ill socialized." I realize dogs are considered by law as "attractive nusances," similar to motorcycles and swimming pools. (things that will invite outside attention) I have seen incidences where the dog has won out, but more often than not, the outraged shreiks of the parents can push out logical thinking. The dog does tend to suffer.

I do what I can to protect my dogs from children and to keep the situation manageable. But there is a point of responsibility that parents and older children have to take on too. My dogs love kids, despite themselves. I just really hate it when the parents are doing absolutely nothing to educate their children on how to act around animals.

I'm not sure what you would consider as rough. Perhaps rough and abusive treatment can be separated by a very fine line.. Actually, I don't want anyone getting "rough" with my dogs. I've worked very long and hard to have well behaved and trusting dogs. I'm not doing my job, if I allow bad treatment to happen to them. Unfortunately, it doesn't always work out this way.

I understand how we all get caught up and rationalize about socialization and training animals. Trust me, I'm a strong advocate of both points. There's just sometimes it won't fit a given situation because of another "party." My dogs would love to be able to go about their business and be ignored by "not family." My attitude at times is that if my dogs can mind their own business, kids/adults should mind their own. But life doesn't act like that, I know :rolleyes:

But in my experience, kids can get abusive in a second. When the kid GRABS my dog's hair/mouth/leg and painfully pulls/yanks/drags, she does retain a certain right to protect herself from harm. This is where law does step in and help her out. Her space has been invaded and she has been assaulted. I even keep her hair shorter now so it's harder for kids to grab her.

The 3 1/2 year old son of my vet was nicely patting Samma one day with his grandmother watching and myself crouched next to him. After 3 minutes of him doing this, he got bored. Quick as a flash, he grabbed both of her ears and bites down on her muzzle. She whimpered in pain and tried to get free. Grandma & I were trying to get him loose, but he had a hold on her. If she had been a different type of personality, she could have caused some serious damage to him. She was really shaken up by this, but still loves kids. Go figure.

There's been other hurtful situations that have happened suddenly with kids, but I won't get into that.

Before I understood how popular hugging was these days, I'd have a child go from petting calmly, to putting her arm around and face up against Samma's face and then make growly noises. Does anyone realize how aggressive this behavior can be interpreted by doggy brains? A 30 pound child against a 15 pound dog. Hmmm.

Now I warn the kids before they even start, against hugging strange dogs, including mine...and I caution parents about proper behavior since they so "love" their children.

Perhaps the pain is easier for a larger dog to tolerate. Certainly there's less chance of broken bones or sprains. I don't know. I do know that I've been very lucky that Samma is a very patient and loving creature, especially towards kids. It's not her I don't trust, its the children. If she sees a baby buggy or a stroller go by, she freestands up on her hind legs to try to peer in.

I honestly believe that if this relatively recent concept of "hugging" was discouraged, there would be a decrease in children getting bit and dogs
being punished. It's teaching the child that the personal space of an animal is not to be respected. I'm not advocating "never hugging your dog," but just, like tug o'war playing for a puppy being much delayed....put it off until the child is old enough to know the difference between the family pet and a stranger's dog.

What these past experiences have done though, has made me into a paranoid alert owner. I see kids, parents, and start anticipating any possible scenario. I run the list of instructions and usual conversation through my head first.
"Walk up, please, don't run at me"; "It's ok to pet them"; "please don't hug or pick them up" ;"Scratch under chin" ; "Please don't yell or scream"; "No, they're not puppies." ; "No, they're not purebred." [but they're so well behaved---I want one] "It took a lot of work and reinforcement to have them this way"; "No, There is no such thing as a perfectly behaved breed that is uneeding of training." (ARGH!!!!!!!) ;) :D :P
*******************************************************
Of course, I'm talking about American kids living here in Germany. I don't have problems with the locals or when we travel...well, except for the vet's son. Perhaps this is just a problem of terrible behavior and noncaring of parents. I just don't know. :(

We had some friends round unexpectedly the other day, and i popped Banya behind the child gate - apart from anything else, we had just been painting the living room.

Marc is a little Down's Syndrome child, and i was so proud of the way Banya was with him. Quick as a flash, after gentle stroking, he grabbed her Buster Cube and - thinking in his mind it was a ball - threw it at her face. Luckily she just backed away and then returned for more fuss....but poor Banya!!! I worked terribly hard at socialising her and she has had some good times with my litle godson which has helped to get her used to kids. But i was unprepared for what Marc did!

Then just as they were going, he slipped out of his parents hands, ran back, and opened the child gate, and ran yelling up and downthe kitchen. I followed him, and suddenly he began screaming because Banya was walking up to him. Thank goodness she was calm, (bemused but calm) and i held out my hand to Marc adn he just came out with me.

Doesn't sound much, but I was very worried for my girl - Marc is lovely but very unpredictable.

Years before he had been bitten on the head by a lab, because he jumped on the dog when it was asleep - it was a neighvour's dog!!!

We have ot be so alert and watchful as dog owners!!!

LIndsay

Good Banya, very good girl!!!!! If a dog can tolerate that wild behavior, you have done a wonderful job...pat yourself on your back :) :D
Btw, What breed is she?
toodles

Thanks so much, i was very proud of her - she is a Belgian Tervueren :)

LIndsay

Lindsay,
I think they're pretty puppies & lovely coats :) I worked along side the Belgian Malinois for 8 years a while ago. Shorter coats, but still wonderful dogs :D Very versatile.

toodles

OOh, don't mind me asking, but what did you do in your work?

i have a friend in the police who is hopefully expecting a Mal pup to walk/train :) ; she's very excited!

We have a Mal near us who is huge, the ground thunders when she gallops towards you, LOL :D

Lindsay :)

Nah, I don't mind you asking, just hate answering since I just wasn't the right personality type and didn't take to the career as well as I wanted to :o

I was a police officer in the US Air Force for 8 years. I worked [$ hung out with the K-9 corps most of the time because they were the coolest & the bestest ]-)

I really wanted to go into the field, but during the early 1980s, only one woman a month could become a k-9 handler. Not great odds, eh? They took the slender blonde with the big chest, even though the dogs ignored her during her "test." She "washed" out a month later. Nah, no harsh feelings there :p

Yes, I got to be "attack dummy" wearing the wraps on a regular basis. And yes, it can hurt being chased down [$ bitten, even with all of the protection. I always would pray that the grass would be dry for my sudden stop. I loved working & training with the dogs. Those are the times that I miss the most. (sob) ]-) Ah, but that was a long time ago.

toodles

Coo, what a great experience though - you must have learnt so much :) Sorry it didn't quite work out.

Were/are Mals used a lot in the US Air Force? I know they are used quite a bit in Europe...

Lindsay

Hi Lindsay,
When I first went in, the majority of AF K-9s were mostly German shepards. There are basically two types of detection purposes for them -- Drug dogs & Bomb dogs. Even though each dog is also trained for apprehension & take-down techniques, they have to be trained and constantly certified for either of those two detection purposes. Sometime around 1988, it seemed as if focus changed from German Shepards to Belgian Malinois. That's what they are today...or at least from those that I've seen recently.

I know BMs tend to be smaller and lighter than GSD's, which can make them easier to get in and out of tight places. But I really think that it was the unfamiliarity of the public (no fear) added to their skills for detection that make them still popular. One of the handlers, whose faithful GSD had to be pts, said that he had an easier time training the BM over his GSD for the scent detections. He loved both of them, so even this acknowledgement was difficult for him to make. I'll accept any suggestions, because I claim no expertise on understanding bureacratic thinking styles :P

I was very interested in this posting. Yes, I agree, many parents make no attempt whatsoever to modify their children's behaviour around other people's dogs. I found when we had Cavaliers that other people's children tended to treat them as toys because they were small, which is why I personally would never have small dogs again, especially now we have grandchildren. I think on the whole children tend to have more respect for larger dogs. The only problem we had with our late sadly missed collie cross was that he once accidentally knocked a four year old over - that's the only snag with larger size! I suppose at the end of the day there is no answer but early socialisation - of children and dogs!!- and constant vigilance.
Cathy.

I have a 3 and a half year old Daughter and 2 dogs who are really good with her and most of the time she is good with them.

When out if we see another dog she always wants to cuddle the dog but she knows she is not allowed to unless the owner of the dog says there dog is ok with kids and even if the answer is yes I do not let her grab the dog she is told to stroke nicely and be gentle.
If the dog is alone outside a shop then she is not allowed to go up to the dog.

What annoys me is when out walking my 2 dogs the amount of kids that charge up to them without asking if they are ok first ok they are good with kids but I wish they would ask to stroke them first.

Karen

Cathy,

I'd add 'and parents' to that list too!

One of my colleagues and I had a row in a pub one night, he as a parent, was claiming that dogs are wolves and should be illegal, me pointing out that they were companions, workmates, best friends, invaluable support for infirmity etc and should be under control but welcome in any civilised society. The conversation deteriorated as you can imagine up to the point where he claimed if HIS child came into MY fenced off and dog-proof garden and, as a result of something the child did, it was injured by my dog, then I - and my poor dog - would be at fault. This man is otherwise a sensible, well educated, intelligent man. He has a MASSIVE blind spot when it comes to his children’s safety and dogs and its children brought up by people like him that I fear. They are taught to fear dogs at best, hate them at worst.

The above is a bit extreme and I am aware not all parents are as unbalanced as this man, but even my sister-in-law, herself a confirmed cat lover, has inadvertently 'taught' her children to be scared of dogs. Luckily, as children will, they have overcome this fear by spending time with my gentle boy, a Weimaraner, who is sadly no longer with us. To the extent that when he died I had three condolence cards, one from each of her three children!

I suppose my point is that we all need to assume responsibility for our dogs and work on the principle that no-one else will help us along. Even otherwise tolerant and sensible people are capable of being unbelievably prejudice. Certainly socialisation is the best way IMO, but we should always remain on our guard to protect our innocent dogs from unexpected provocation from strangers at all times. How sad. :(

Linda

Hi Linda,

Your friend sounds as if he may have had a bad experience with a dog as a child. When I'm out with my children (6,4 and 17mths) they are always told to ask the grown up-that's with the dog before they stroke the dog. They have been told that some dogs are just 'grumpy' and don't really like being fussed and bothered.

Unfortunately not everyone does this. I was out walking Holly at the weekend and a couple, I presume they were grandparents, allowed a group of small children to approach Holly. I got her to sit and knelt down beside her to offer her some support but the children still managed to un-nerve her. They were squealing and shouting, prodding and poking her. After a few seconds I'd had enough and stood up with whilst carrying her so I could walk off. One girl, she must have been about 3 reached up and grabbed hold of Hollys foot and pulled. Unfortunately Holly then bit her. It was horrible, there was blood and tears and the language that came out of the adults mouth was appalling. Luckily quite a few people saw what had happened and I got their details - they all agreed that Holly was not to blame. The police are coming round this morning to see Holly and to get my version of events.

Hopefully the police will see my side of this and agree that Holly is not a problem dog.

Fiona

Fiona,

Poor you, and poor Holly :(

Hope everything works out OK, and its a good job there were witnesses. Puppy's teeth are unfortunately very sharp aren't they?

{{{Hug for Holly and you}}}}

Linda

Hello, Fiona,
I'm so sorry to hear about your unhappy experience. It is just so upsetting when something like this happens, and subsequently it can spoil your enjoyment of taking the dog out for a walk - one of the main joys of owning a dog! I'm so glad you've got witnesses, and trust the police will be reasonable.
Thinking of you,
Cathy.

What a terrible experience for you and Holly! I'm sure the police will understand that this was really not Holly's fault. She's only a puppy and it probably hurt her, having her foot pulled. Keep us posted.

Sharon

Linda,

Yes, I absolutely agree with you. It's a very sad situation. I heard a teacher of the "Today" programme this morning describe how she had tried to protect herself from physical abuse from a mother, whilst the father looked on in a threatening way. If a minority of our population no longer have any respect for authority figures in education and health, then no wonder their children believe they have a right to behave as they please, whether with people or animals.

Cathy.

Sadly Linda your colleague is right, if his child did get into your garden and something happened you would be at fault. Last summer I had trouble with my neighbour's kids teasing the dogs through the fence, and coming up to the back gate, which is about 50 yards into my property, throwing things over the fence, it really got to one of the dogs and I feel sure if he could have got to them he would have caused damage. I spoke to the local dog warden and was told that though I keep the 6 foot gate padlocked, if the child climbed over it and got bitten it was still my fault. Luckily after one very near miss, the kids left the dogs alone but I am dreading this summer. Ingrid

Ingrid,

Yes, I know he's right. Its so unfair isn't it? And we are supposed to be a nation of animal lovers!

Hope the summer proves less stressful than the last and that nothing horrible happens to the 'charming' children next door - for your sake and the sake of your boy, if not for the sake of the children who sound like they deserve to be eaten alive!!!!

Linda

Linda, It's another of the joys of the DDA, I'm lucky in that my big GSD is fine with kids, funnily enough he is better with the ones that just run up and hug him then the ones who hover nervously, but then not many do just come up, parents seem more wary of him so normally ask.
Ingrid

I have had two bad incidents with my kid loving unflappable girls outside school. One boy of about 11 who was on drugs for Hyperactivity (ADS) came up to the girls and qucik as a flash put his hands around theoldest ones face with thumbs inermost, and began to press theminto her the corner of her eye sockets, poor Elka looked totally bemused and I shouted at him to stop, and pulled her away.

The second occasion with my three was on one of those late spring days that syddenly turn very warm. There were two very bouncy little sister who always bounded around making themselves right nuisances around people. they would grab your arm and swing, jump up and down chattering to all and sxundry, and of course always squeeled with glee when they saw the dogs. the eldest always looked uncomfortable with the rather overwhelming attention! I always watched carefully and pleasantly always said 'Gently don't grab, don't hug, they are warm in those fur coats, etc.

On this occasion the eldest was lying down and the 5 or 6 year old (actually the least bouncy of the two) spotted her and threw herself at the dog to hug her. My girl scrambled to her feet and gave a warning snap of the air! Fortunately the mother saw that she did not try and bite, and the child backed off in surprise, and I was left telling off my dog, and appologising!

The mother who I had talked to a lot previously agreed that it was the child's fault, but ever after was a bit frosty.

Hi Brainless,
That's terrible. I'm glad your "girl" still has eyes. Just because a kid is hyperactive, cruelty has no excuse in my book.

Oh, of course "Mother" was frosty, you criticized her darling children, even if they had been wrong. These are the little "tragedies" & incidents that need to get put in the newspapers so that the public can realize that the dogs aren't always to blame. grrr.
toodles

the amount of times I have had a call ( im in Lab Rescue) saying my dog has just growled at child is well quite a few.

when you get to the whole story more often than not it turns out the child has done these kind of things pulled tail over and over stuck a pencil in the eyes bitten the dogs ears is it any suprise the dog has growled.

Karen

eoghania,

"Of course, I'm talking about American kids living here in Germany. I don't have problems with the locals or when we travel...well, except for the vet's son. Perhaps this is just a problem of terrible behavior and noncaring of parents. I just don't know. "

I can't believe you wrote that!! When you disagree with others about their blanket statements, be careful that you don't make any yourself!

I'm not making an unfounded or even a blanket statement concerning American children :) They are who I deal with on a daily basis. [I even get to work with them--JOY :D ]

I'm not saying that ALL American kids are wild and uncontrollable. I am saying that the vast majority of problems I have had in the last three years, have been WITH American kids. I have also experienced some wonderful interactions between my dogs and American kids.

I don't think I'm being at all unfair or harsh to anyone by saying what I said.

Toodles

Just out of curiosity, how is it that you work with them?

I'm a substitute teacher at one of the High Schools --- well, when I'm not laid up with this stupid ankle. :( It's a great part time position :) Tomorrow & Friday are my first full days back. :D Wish me luck, please -- I'm a bit nervous :O

toodles

eoghania,
Lets hope you aren't affected by the recent cuts. But then, you could spend all that free time watching AFRTS with your new satellite dish paid for with DoDDS funds!

Sarah

Good luck and don't be nervous!!! :)

Lindsay

Could it be that you have more time with American kids and don't have as much time with those of other cultures. I believe that little kids 4 and younger often act the same no matter where they are from. Animals are always attractive to them.

Yep, that's why I said that my experiences related MOSTLY to American Kids. I live with Germans, but there aren't as many kids around.
toodles

Quinn,
Thanks for the concern, but I don't have to worry about being part of the cuts. I'm actually a needed person :D Lindsey, Thanks much ---- I'm just worried about getting overtired in the next two days. I have a lot less stamina than before my accident & operation.

Quinn, I see you have something to do with US Military, or you wouldn't know about AFRTS & the decoder issue :D Actually the S&S second article last Friday or Sat., clarified matters better. It seems that within two years, AFRTS is being required by EU to go digital.
No one will be able to view the regular AFN channel without a decoder. I also think that the radio will also be required to change too.

The difference between upgrading the entire system at the new location in Mannheim, or having decoders available for loan through FMO would be rather minimal. They're talking about a buyback program for those who already have decoders.

I have to say that I do support this idea. I've lived off base everytime we are over here. It is very easy to lose touch, even with reading newsmagazines & newspapers. Something about the visual medium that helps out. It's been only the last two years that I've had AFN, but I do appreciate it. Especially during last September. It does keep those of us who are on the economy better connected with our home ties. I forget every so often :o

I haven't liked the racket of either buying the entire satellite system for $600 up front or renting it for $20 a month via credit card. I thought it would be a good idea to have some kind of rent-to-own program available. But this is better. Actually, I'd love to have Channel Five or even Sky One, but no hope there unless we head over to your neck o'woods. :D

Perhaps, we can look at it this way, for all of us not drawing full housing allowance for ranks it can be donated to this new program :D Hey, it's just an idea. And how we got off topic of dogs, I don't know

toodles